Preps for a Contested Election in November

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:27 am

I'm just posting the link for this YT vid instead of using the board function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWRhLW7Y8w

Political & conspiritorial AF, but for some reason I can't articulate atm, I felt this was important to post.

Mods/Admins: Thank you in advance for being gentle :mrgreen:

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:40 am

MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:27 am
I'm just posting the link for this YT vid instead of using the board function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWRhLW7Y8w

Political & conspiritorial AF, but for some reason I can't articulate atm, I felt this was important to post.

Mods/Admins: Thank you in advance for being gentle :mrgreen:
Yes it is a very biased political and conspiritorial video. It is also points to groups and suggests support for those groups that are noted for violent a.k.a. "peaceful" protests in the streets.

He does have a good description of the process and hence what may happen if the election remains contested. To that end I will subject to further Mod review agree it is post worthy for that reason.

For the record the information that he provided should not be news to anyone who paid attention in HS civics class or was an adult for the 2000 election. This subject came up and often repeated by the talking heads (who clearly had not paid attention in HS civics class) then during the weeks it took to resolve the hanging chad issue.


I will add the following warning.
***** Biased political content at the link/None of the YT political tirade should be quoted in this forum ****

Note this position will be subject to further MOD review and we (en banc) may decide to treat this differently.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by NT2C » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:07 pm

I watched you post it MP and you did so perfectly. You wiped the politics off your feet on the mat at the door, didn't get any on our rugs, and gave adequate warning to anyone venturing out on that path. Works for me.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm

A non political description of the 12th amendment to the US Constitution and the process that will be followed if the 2020 election goes to the Congress for a decision:
Congress ratified the 12th Amendment in 1804. The amendment clarified the process by which electors should vote. More importantly, it described what to do in the event of an electoral tie. The amendment states that "the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President” and “the Senate shall choose the Vice-President." The process is also used in the event that no candidate wins 270 or more Electoral College votes.

The House of Representatives
As directed by the 12th Amendment, the 435 members of the House of Representatives must make their first official duty the selection of the next president. Unlike the Electoral College system, where a larger population equals more votes, each of the 50 states in the House gets exactly one vote when selecting the president.

It is up to the delegation of representatives from each state to decide how their state will cast its one and only vote. Smaller states like Wyoming, Montana, and Vermont, with only one representative, wield as much power as California or New York. The District of Columbia does not get a vote in this process. The first candidate to win the votes of any 26 states is the new president. The 12th Amendment gives the House until the fourth day of March to select a president.

The Senate
At the same time that the House is selecting the new president, the Senate must select the new vice president. Each of the 100 senators gets one vote, with a simple majority of 51 senators required to select the vice president. Unlike the House, the 12th Amendment places no time limit on the Senate's selection of a vice president.


The cliff notes version:
one state = one vote for POTUS & VPOTUS.
The house selects only the POTUS.
The senate selects the only the VPOTUS.
In theory you could have a POTUS from one party and a VPOTUS from another party.

Note:
The then current (as of the date the vote takes place) sworn in house and senate make this selection.
The 12th Amendment gives the House until the fourth day of March to select a president.
The current POTUS and VPOTUS cease to hold their office on January 20, 2021. That is why even re-elected officials are sworn in again. Their authority ceases at that point until they are re-appointed at that time.

So in theory IF this drags on to Jan 20, 2021 the current POTUS & VPOTUS will by law no longer be office holders. The then Speaker of the House will then succeed as POTUS. If the Speaker does not or will not take the role, the then President Pro Tem of the Senate takes the role until March 4, 2021 or until such time as either the Senate and House appoint a POTUS and/or VPOTUS.
BTW if the Senate appoints a VPOTUS before a POTUS is appointed then that VPOTUS becomes POTUS and the house vote is not needed.

The cabinet officials & other successors to the POTUS position. BTW they remain in office until dismissal or resignation.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by NT2C » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:58 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
Note:
The then current (as of the date the vote takes place) sworn in house and senate make this selection.
That doesn't sound quite right to me. I'm pre-coffee (just woke up) so my brain is a little fuzzy and I'm having a hard time accessing the info from deep down in my catacombs but I seem to remember a court decision that it had to be Congress as it was sitting on a certain date, possibly December 14th but could also be Inauguration day, I'm not 100% sure which, just that it wasn't Congress as of the date of the Congressional vote. I'll try to find an authoritative source for this once I've sufficiently recaffeinated this thing I call a bloodstream.

ETA: In any case, in keeping with our core mission of preparation extra vigilance is going to be the watchword until our political overlords get their shit together and the resulting legal challenges and protest/hissy fits by those unhappy with the results die down.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:32 pm

A good link on the succession process:
https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-presi ... on-3322126

A little factoid:
Presidents Who Served but Were Never Elected
Chester A. Arthur
Millard Fillmore
Gerald R. Ford
Andrew Johnson
John Tyler
NT2C wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:58 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
Note:
The then current (as of the date the vote takes place) sworn in house and senate make this selection.
SNIP...That doesn't sound quite right to me.
You are correct.
Perhaps I should have paid more attention in HS civics class.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk ... bc68081bb6

This has happened 3 times before and the precedent has been set.
The vote cannot take place until the electoral votes are counted (or in this instance cannot be counted) by the deadline of January 6.
The new members of congress are sworn in on Jan 3 so the new Congress with the new members are ones tasked with selecting the POTUS.
The House vote would not be decided by the House as it currently exists, but by the lawmakers elected in November, as lawmakers will be sworn in on January 3 and Congress will convene to count electoral votes January 6.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by aikorob » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:42 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm

In theory you could have a POTUS from one party and a VPOTUS from another party.
can you imagine the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth if that happened? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
almost worth the price of admission :clap:
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by emclean » Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:50 am

aikorob wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:42 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
In theory you could have a POTUS from one party and a VPOTUS from another party.
can you imagine the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth if that happened? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
almost worth the price of admission :clap:
it was originally set up that there everyone was running for president, who ever got the most electoral votes got the job, and the person with the second most became the VP.
that was also changed by the 12th Amendment.

it could be fun to bring it back, and see how the 2 parties react.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by Phil » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:23 am

emclean wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:50 am
aikorob wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:42 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
In theory you could have a POTUS from one party and a VPOTUS from another party.
can you imagine the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth if that happened? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
almost worth the price of admission :clap:
it was originally set up that there everyone was running for president, who ever got the most electoral votes got the job, and the person with the second most became the VP.
that was also changed by the 12th Amendment.

it could be fun to bring it back, and see how the 2 parties react.
It would have an effect somewhat analogous to reinstating the draft, forcing both sides to come together more. Then again, the VP is largely a soft issue political seat, so they could just be stuck on the back burner as most past VPs have.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by M813 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:37 am

My observation is that the VP has taken a much more visible role in the last 3-4 administrations.

That's about all I can say without violating forum rules.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by majorhavoc » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:57 am

emclean wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:50 am
aikorob wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:42 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
In theory you could have a POTUS from one party and a VPOTUS from another party.
can you imagine the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth if that happened? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
almost worth the price of admission :clap:
it was originally set up that there everyone was running for president, who ever got the most electoral votes got the job, and the person with the second most became the VP.
that was also changed by the 12th Amendment.

it could be fun to bring it back, and see how the 2 parties react.
An elegant arrangement for a more civilized age ...

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:24 pm

Will there ever be enough popcorn?

:mrgreen:

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:59 pm

aikorob wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:42 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm

In theory you could have a POTUS from one party and a VPOTUS from another party.
can you imagine the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth if that happened? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
almost worth the price of admission :clap:
Here is another perspective. The POTUS & VPOTUS they each appoint, does NOT have to be the ones on the ballot.
So in addition to two different parties they could both be literally anyone eligible to hold the office of POTUS.

So a POTUS and VPOTUS from different parties who are not the people who campaigned for the position.

Talk about wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by majorhavoc » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:22 pm

Shit just got very real.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by NT2C » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:24 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:22 pm
Shit just got very real.
Amen, brother.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:36 pm

Nothing more than theater & drama (bread and circuses) for TV by the ... (omitted due to politics).

Lets just say appearances can be deceiving and leave it at that.

Compared to the DC riots in Jan 2017 it is a minor event.

My $.03 (note up $.01 due to likely USD devaluation).
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by PistolPete » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:04 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:36 pm
My $.03 (note up $.01 due to likely USD devaluation).
Ha! Speaking of the markets- the Dow didn't like it when the buildings were breached but the crypto markets certainly did. This may accelerate the flight from the US dollar.

The talking heads on NPR were completely apoplectic when demonstrators took over congress. I'd love to turn on C-SPAN next week and see the senate meeting in a Holiday Inn. :clap:

What we can take away from this is figuring out what actions will follow by protesters and what the response will be from the government and prepare accordingly. Keep a clear head and make good decisions!
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by NT2C » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:18 pm

Planning should entail not just plans for the next day, or next week, but also include the next year or longer, depending on how this all goes. There's a good case to be made right now that the balloon went up, the feces impacted the rotary airflow directional unit, and that our national maps are about to get complicated. If this turns into a protracted armed conflict, as has been seen in so many other countries, then a plan for getting through it is essential.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by quazi » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:44 pm

My mom called me before I had my morning* coffee to tell me that "roughians" had taken over the capitol, but because I was tired and didn't have a great signal I misheard her as saying "Russians" and I was getting pretty confused and alarmed when she kept insisting that she was serious and not fucking with me. :lol:

*Technically it was in the PM, but I work nights now.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by PistolPete » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:37 pm

quazi wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:44 pm
My mom called me before I had my morning* coffee to tell me that "roughians" had taken over the capitol, but because I was tired and didn't have a great signal I misheard her as saying "Russians" and I was getting pretty confused and alarmed when she kept insisting that she was serious and not fucking with me. :lol:

*Technically it was in the PM, but I work nights now.
:lol:
That's quite a call to wake up to. Sounds like one woman shot by capital police, but looks like everything is winding down. I'll be very curious to see what tomorrow brings. 2021 is coming in just like 2020 went out! New normal wasn't a lie. :|
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:22 pm

PistolPete wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:04 pm

Ha! Speaking of the markets- the Dow didn't like it when the buildings were breached but the crypto markets certainly did. This may accelerate the flight from the US dollar.
What is interesting is that the techs took a hit (aapl,amzn, FB, Goog), while the banks, oil & gas and other non tech did very well.

The crypto currencies BTC, ETH are up less than Citibank was today.
XRP is up a bunch but then it has been slamming up and down recently.
https://finance.yahoo.com/cryptocurrencies


Back on topic; with the elections finally over and the dance partners paired up; these dancers will now tell the conductor to start playing the music score they want played. There is no need to hide their true intentions now. There is no fear of disturbing the last dance which ended as they expected/planned.

IMO you will see the rhetoric level from these dance partners, which previously was guarded and "conciliatory" change to a more vitriolic and vindictive level of rhetoric. They will also need more bread and circuses to entertain their followers.

Be aware and be careful if you do not want to be part of the new circus.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:25 pm

PistolPete wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:37 pm
quazi wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:44 pm
My mom called me before I had my morning* coffee to tell me that "roughians" had taken over the capitol, but because I was tired and didn't have a great signal I misheard her as saying "Russians" and I was getting pretty confused and alarmed when she kept insisting that she was serious and not fucking with me. :lol:

*Technically it was in the PM, but I work nights now.
:lol:
That's quite a call to wake up to. Sounds like one woman shot by capital police, but looks like everything is winding down. I'll be very curious to see what tomorrow brings. 2021 is coming in just like 2020 went out! New normal wasn't a lie. :|
I'm hearing that the woman that was shot has died from her injuries, but can't confirm it just yet.

I just got a text from MPMalloy about it.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:56 pm

This is both graphic and NWS!
This appears to be a video of the capitol homicide incident involving a lady.

Note there is politics at this link. Read & view at your own risk.

https://www.brighteon.com/e72d4a04-d595 ... dd32147fbc

My initial thoughts:
The scene is chaotic but one shot is audible. There are uniformed officers behind her with rifles but no shooter is visible. She appears unarmed but to be climbing over a barricade at a doorway. The shot (based upon the lower sound level) may have originated from inside that area.

Obviously we need to wait for more facts.

A witness who can be seen on the first video speaking to the press. He said she was climbing through a "window" and the security/SS/CP told her to get down and the a shot was fired and hit her in the neck. So shot seems to have originated from the security group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip1DsbD ... annel=WKRG


Another view at a less political site still NWS view at your own risk.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/us-capito ... -was-shot/

BTW this matter apparently constitutes a "violent riot" in the MSM. That and the MSM has also labeled her a "female rioter" :|
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by NT2C » Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:16 pm

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:25 pm
PistolPete wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:37 pm
quazi wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:44 pm
My mom called me before I had my morning* coffee to tell me that "roughians" had taken over the capitol, but because I was tired and didn't have a great signal I misheard her as saying "Russians" and I was getting pretty confused and alarmed when she kept insisting that she was serious and not fucking with me. :lol:

*Technically it was in the PM, but I work nights now.
:lol:
That's quite a call to wake up to. Sounds like one woman shot by capital police, but looks like everything is winding down. I'll be very curious to see what tomorrow brings. 2021 is coming in just like 2020 went out! New normal wasn't a lie. :|
I'm hearing that the woman that was shot has died from her injuries, but can't confirm it just yet.

I just got a text from MPMalloy about it.
Word I'm getting right now is that the woman who was shot has died and was only 17 years old. I have a feeling students will be learning her name in school a century from now.
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