The battle of the PCCs

Forum dedicated for rifles and shotguns from basic to tactical.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
the_alias
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 5988
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Not Here.

The battle of the PCCs

Post by the_alias » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:38 pm

I want a PCC - 9mm is so cheap (for now...) and it just seems fun gun to add to the arsenal.

Here are the options I'm considering with pro's and con's I can think of - looking for feedback and experience from people who own/have shot.

Ruger PC9

Pro's:

- Uses Glock mags - I have a bunch already
- Good price
- Looks like TaranTactical might be producing some aftermarket stuff for this rifle
- Rail system

Con's:

- Heard mixed stuff about Ruger's quality control
- From some USPSA people I know rumours of some reliability issues
- Less 'cool' than some of the other options

AR9

Pro's:

- Same manual of arms as AR
- Good parts/options availability
- Can build it out myself most likely over time
- Build a Glock mag compatible one
- Option to make it a pistol (7inch or 10 inch barrel)

Con's:

- Blowback from suppressing (if I do later) meant to be nasty
- It's another AR (I'll be honest aesthetics matter and I have 2 AR's already)
- Price - making a high end one seems pretty pricey

Scorpion Evos3

Pro's

- Like the looks
- Seems good to suppress
- CZ good quality
- All in one package
- Could also buy a pistol with brace

Con's

- Trigger meant to be pretty bad (springs and upgrade packages are available)
- Buying new mags is a pain for a few reasons.
- Double the cost of a PC9

Keltec Sub2000

Pro's

- Foldable
- Glock mags
- Cheap

Con's

- Seems hard to find
- Reliability?
- Aesthetics/life

Others?

What am I missing? Ideally I think I would like to keep it to having always option of it being a real rifle so I can shoot occasional USPSA PCC match (for fun not competition)...
Man is a beast of prey

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 16645
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by raptor » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:15 pm

You did leave out the Beretta Storm. That said no Glock magazine compatability.
https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/ ... -carbines/

The other one is the Mech-tech conversion for the Glock. I have read good and bad things about their reliability
https://mechtechsys.com/glock-carbine-conversion/

The Roni with a 16 inch barrel is another version. This uses the standard Glock pistol albeit with a 16 inch barrel to avoid the stamp tax and get better velocity.
https://www.glockstore.com/RONI-Civilia ... 6-Barrel_2

The two above are clearly Glock compatible.

I have looked at these with an eye towards buying one but have not pulled the trigger yet( yes bad pun intended).

My purposes are a bit different. I wanted it to replace an AR pistol I use for self defense.

You hit on the key issues for me Glock magazine compatibility and reliability.

I got my hands on a Keltec 2000 at a range and honestly the cheek weld and ergonomics did not work for me. It was ok but it just did not work for me. Be sure to try one before you buy one. The sights were also plastic and flimsy but that can be fixed.

The Ruger is IMO the better choice for me although I agree it is truly a Fudd firearm. However it fit my hands and the sights were ok for me. The ergonomics reminded me of a 10/22.

I would suggest the Roni conversion since it utilizes the very reliable Glock pistol albeit with a longer barrel. It should be very reliable.

In the end I went a different route and stayed with the Ar pistol.

User avatar
Burncycle
* *
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:24 pm
Location: TN / KY Border

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Burncycle » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:06 pm

I haven't really found the perfect PCC yet. Nearly all of them seem unnecessarily bulky or have a cheap feeling.



AR based PDWs can get pretty darn small
Image

and can be had in better calibers like 300 blackout. With AR kits and platforms being very inexpensive lately, it would be the near perfect solution if ammunition wasn't so obnoxiously expensive, so I get the appeal of a PCC -- they just need to make them smaller.


The in development Tac 9 is intriguing from a size and simplicity standpoint. Presumably they'll be adding sights at some point...

Image

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13308
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Stercutus » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:19 pm

Tac 9 is intriguing from a size and simplicity standpoint. Presumably they'll be adding sights at some point...
If it is anything like the Tec-9 it is trying to look like it won't need sights. Every round will head in a random direction.


I'm on the AR Pistol bandwagon. It's easier to suppress and you can change calibers faster than changing your socks.


Also nobody mentioned the HiPoint which now comes in four calibers last I checked. Uglier than a Mexican Hairless mixed with a Chinese Crested but it works.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

boskone
* * *
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:07 pm
Location: Aggieland-ish

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by boskone » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:01 pm

I wish someone would make one compatible with XD mags; I already own the pistol, dangit. Theoretically I could pretty easily convert my mags for a Beretta 92-compat one, but AFAIK offhand there's only the CX4 Storm and some even more expensive AR PCCs. :\

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2777
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by flybynight » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:14 am

Stercutus wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:19 pm
Tac 9 is intriguing from a size and simplicity standpoint. Presumably they'll be adding sights at some point...
If it is anything like the Tec-9 it is trying to look like it won't need sights. Every round will head in a random direction.


I'm on the AR Pistol bandwagon. It's easier to suppress and you can change calibers faster than changing your socks.


Also nobody mentioned the HiPoint which now comes in four calibers last I checked. Uglier than a Mexican Hairless mixed with a Chinese Crested but it works.
Image



Also what about those AK- 9's?

Image
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
emclean
* * * * *
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:31 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Fido
Zombieland
Location: NW Indiana

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by emclean » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:52 am

boskone wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:01 pm
I wish someone would make one compatible with XD mags; I already own the pistol, dangit. Theoretically I could pretty easily convert my mags for a Beretta 92-compat one, but AFAIK offhand there's only the CX4 Storm and some even more expensive AR PCCs. :\
look up Thureon Defense, they make an AR-ish PCC that takes XD, M&P or Sig mags.

Zed Hunter
* *
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:02 am

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Zed Hunter » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:50 am

No I won't sell my camp carbine.

User avatar
Dabster
* * *
Posts: 779
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:20 am

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Dabster » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:34 pm

No love for the super-soft-shooting Kriss Vector?

Image
I am not a 'gray man'. I am a brown man, coyote brown. With FDE highlights, of course.

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2777
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by flybynight » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:21 pm

Zed Hunter wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:50 am
No I won't sell my camp carbine.
Well if you insist. Yes you can just give me your camp carbine :clap: :clownshoes:
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
the_alias
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 5988
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Not Here.

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by the_alias » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:23 pm

These responses have slightly disappointed me :(

RE Kriss Vector - shot one at the range once - where the safety was felt pretty bad to me...
Man is a beast of prey

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2777
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by flybynight » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:18 pm

the_alias wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:23 pm
These responses have slightly disappointed me :(

RE Kriss Vector - shot one at the range once - where the safety was felt pretty bad to me...
Well what did you expect? There is no wondernine of the carbine land. Z H's camp nine is probably the best of the bunch and they haven't made those in over thirty odd years.
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 16645
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by raptor » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:03 pm

the_alias wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:23 pm
These responses have slightly disappointed me :(

RE Kriss Vector - shot one at the range once - where the safety was felt pretty bad to me...
The last PCC in 9mm that I liked was a S&W Model 76 clone.

Mrselfdestruct
*
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:23 am

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Mrselfdestruct » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:32 am

I bought a PC9, range report as soon as its unwrapped and i figure out how to post pics...
"In the absence of orders, go find something, and kill it." -Rommel

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3945
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Halfapint » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am

Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

User avatar
Langenator
* * *
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:20 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Zombieland, Shaun of the Dead (and Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series if they ever make them into movies)
Location: Aggieland, TX

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Langenator » Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:53 am

Halfapint wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
I've shot my FiL's sub-2K,and I had no issues with sighting. *shrug*

Also, Kel-Tec does make a version that takes Beretta mags, although the Glock-compatible version is by far the most common.
Fortunis Fortus Paratus

User avatar
JeeperCreeper
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 2338
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Twilight... making zombies of our future generations
Location: Yo Momma's House

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by JeeperCreeper » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:19 pm

Ideally...

If I went pistol I'd go AR or AK platform

If I went rifle, I'd go Ruger PC9

If I went for something other than 9mm, I'd go with that Aero Survival thingy
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

Zed Hunter
* *
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:02 am

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Zed Hunter » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:15 am

The reason I went with the TNW ASR is I dont know what ammo is going to be available.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13308
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Stercutus » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:40 am

Halfapint wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
I got a good laugh the other day when a TV show my on was watching employed one as sniper rifle.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3945
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Halfapint » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:35 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:40 am
Halfapint wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
I got a good laugh the other day when a TV show my on was watching employed one as sniper rifle.
Wait..... they're not?! well shit I'm going to have to rethink my entire plan now!
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13308
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by Stercutus » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:04 pm

Halfapint wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:35 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:40 am
Halfapint wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:02 am
Shot the sub2k and well...... Unless you’re a child, or someone who has a no longer has and upper or lower jaw, you just cannot get a good sight down the optics.

The beretta was better, but I didn’t like the scope the guy had on it. Also the trigger seemed odd.
I got a good laugh the other day when a TV show my on was watching employed one as sniper rifle.
Wait..... they're not?! well shit I'm going to have to rethink my entire plan now!
Only if you are from the future and have been transplanted in to another body in order to assassinate a political leader.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

User avatar
RickOShea
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 9028
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Gulf Coast, AL

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by RickOShea » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:35 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:19 pm
Ideally...

If I went for something other than 9mm, I'd go with that Aero Survival thingy
What changed your mind about the TNW Aero Survival?....

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:56 pm
RickOShea wrote: Welp, there's always the Hi-Point 10mm carbine. Or, if ya just gots to have that Glock mag, the Just Right and TNW Aero 10mm carbines. :ooh:
I don't really see the JRC or TNW offerings being as viable as other options only because they are small companies and are largely proprietary within that small company. Getting a proprietary gun from a big company like Ruger (even hi point) is more comforting for many consumers dropping some big cash. At least for a niche gun like a 10mm PCC.
whisk.e.rebellion wrote: It's not what you say anymore. It's how you say it.

Image ............................................................................................................................................................................................Image

User avatar
JeeperCreeper
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 2338
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Twilight... making zombies of our future generations
Location: Yo Momma's House

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:25 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:35 pm
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:19 pm
Ideally...

If I went for something other than 9mm, I'd go with that Aero Survival thingy
What changed your mind about the TNW Aero Survival?....

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:56 pm
RickOShea wrote: Welp, there's always the Hi-Point 10mm carbine. Or, if ya just gots to have that Glock mag, the Just Right and TNW Aero 10mm carbines. :ooh:
I don't really see the JRC or TNW offerings being as viable as other options only because they are small companies and are largely proprietary within that small company. Getting a proprietary gun from a big company like Ruger (even hi point) is more comforting for many consumers dropping some big cash. At least for a niche gun like a 10mm PCC.
I dunno.... Just been looking at them lately and I think they are cool. I still don't disagree with my old statement as a 10mm hipoint is the most responsible fiscally, but sometimes cool factor will outdo smart factor.

But yeah, I guess it depends on the day on what I'm spending my imaginary money on (I buy, sell, and trade guns like a madman so finding contradictions will be easy with me haha)
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

User avatar
91Eunozs
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:16 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: All of them!
Location: Hill Country, Texas

Re: The battle of the PCCs

Post by 91Eunozs » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:15 pm

Prices on Quarter Circle 10 stuff have finally dropped enough to pique my interest...

https://www.quartercircle10.com/product ... ished.html

Been eyeing a .45ACP Kriss for years and have a fair stockpile of magazines (13 and 28+ round) for my G21 to feed it, but may wind up building a pistol on this platform instead.
Molon Latte...come & take our coffee order
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:... It's fun to play pretend, but this is the internet, and it's time to be serious.
zengunfighter wrote:... you don't want to blow a tranny in the middle of a pursuit...
woodsghost wrote:... A defensive gun without training is basically a talisman. It might ward off evil, but I wouldn't count on it.

Post Reply

Return to “Longarms - Shotguns and Rifles”