My 2c about Combat Techniques

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My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by Dark_Rhodes » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:30 pm

Just like I posted about a Z's physiology, there are some tenants of zombie combat in movies and books that irk me.

1. Moving headshots are HARD. I'm ex-military, and I think my peers would agree. If you can only drop a Z with a headshot, then you're gonna need to run, a lot. Not a lot of post-apocalypse gun stores around, ammo is going to be the new currency.

2. Gunfire = Zombie Dinner Bell. Bangs can be heard a long way away. Shhhh... Bows and arrows, melee weapons, traps, mean less unwanted party crashers.

more later..

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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by woodsghost » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:07 pm

Shotguns present one option for coping with head shots. So do red dot sights. But it will need to be practiced.

I believe the scout rifle was designed by Jeff Cooper to make fast head shots on charging lions and had exercises to teach the skill. I imagine charging lions are at least as dangerous as zombies.

*IF* one could sneak up on a shambling or standing zombie I think one could get a head shot with a cross bow, bow, sling, or maybe even a spear. But fighting zombies who are alert to you; I expect that would require guns and melee weapons. I would be very reluctant to engage a zombie with melee weapons. What if a body fragment hit me and I got infected? What if there were more Zed's than expected? I am big into limiting exposure to risk in such a scenario.

Just some of my thoughts :)
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by flybynight » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:19 am

I would be very reluctant to engage a zombie with melee weapons. What if a body fragment hit me and I got infected? What if there were more Zed's than expected? I am big into limiting exposure to risk in such a scenario.
I hate it when science and reality interfere with fantasy :crazy:
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by majorhavoc » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:25 pm

flybynight wrote:
I would be very reluctant to engage a zombie with melee weapons. What if a body fragment hit me and I got infected? What if there were more Zed's than expected? I am big into limiting exposure to risk in such a scenario.
I hate it when science and reality interfere with fantasy :crazy:
You two aren't suggesting that the inevitable hypothetical zombie apocalypse won't be as survivable as we expect it to be, are you?

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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by MacWa77ace » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:34 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
flybynight wrote:
I would be very reluctant to engage a zombie with melee weapons. What if a body fragment hit me and I got infected? What if there were more Zed's than expected? I am big into limiting exposure to risk in such a scenario.
I hate it when science and reality interfere with fantasy :crazy:
You two aren't suggesting that the inevitable hypothetical zombie apocalypse won't be as survivable as we expect it to be, are you?
Zed Lore Reminder:

You are already infected. The disease is dormant until you die. If you were to drop dead of a heart attack you would turn. A bite will cause an accelerated death due to an alternate infection, seemingly accelerating the inevitable. So getting blood or guts in your mouth, eyes or into open wounds etc. won't cause this alternate infection to accelerate death, its just re-infecting you with the dormant virus. These guys require headshots or rather brain destruction to end them.

The 28 days/weeks rager's bodily fluids are contagious but that's not really the same type of Zombie, its a 'Rager'. In that franchise you're not infected until you are exposed and you don't die but turn straight into one. Also similar is the I am Legend franchise where you're not infected until you are exposed, but then again you don't actually die, you mutate. If you were to die of a heart attack etc. in that franchise you'd just be dead. These types you don't need headshots.

Know your Zombie types :mrgreen: and apply the appropriate combat tactics for said Zeds.

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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by JeeperCreeper » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:49 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:
majorhavoc wrote:
flybynight wrote:
I would be very reluctant to engage a zombie with melee weapons. What if a body fragment hit me and I got infected? What if there were more Zed's than expected? I am big into limiting exposure to risk in such a scenario.
I hate it when science and reality interfere with fantasy :crazy:
You two aren't suggesting that the inevitable hypothetical zombie apocalypse won't be as survivable as we expect it to be, are you?
Zed Lore Reminder:

You are already infected. The disease is dormant until you die. If you were to drop dead of a heart attack you would turn. A bite will cause an accelerated death due to an alternate infection, seemingly accelerating the inevitable. So getting blood or guts in your mouth, eyes or into open wounds etc. won't cause this alternate infection to accelerate death, its just re-infecting you with the dormant virus. These guys require headshots or rather brain destruction to end them.

The 28 days/weeks rager's bodily fluids are contagious but that's not really the same type of Zombie, its a 'Rager'. In that franchise you're not infected until you are exposed and you don't die but turn straight into one. Also similar is the I am Legend franchise where you're not infected until you are exposed, but then again you don't actually die, you mutate. If you were to die of a heart attack etc. in that franchise you'd just be dead. These types you don't need headshots.

Know your Zombie types :mrgreen: and apply the appropriate combat tactics for said Zeds.
Is Romero lore the same as the Walking Dead lore? You know, for the more typical/traditional zombies...
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by majorhavoc » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:00 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:Is Romero lore the same as the Walking Dead lore? You know, for the more typical/traditional zombies...
It's the same in that in both worlds a zombie bite is fatal and will turn you into a zombie (-er, walker). But it's quite different in that in the Walking Dead universe everyone is already infected and will turn into a zombie (-er, walker) when they die, regardless of whether or not they've ever been bitten.

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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by RickOShea » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:01 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:Is Romero lore the same as the Walking Dead lore? You know, for the more typical/traditional zombies...
TWD walkers are essentially the same as the classic Romero ghouls from NOTLD:

-Something (cosmic radiation/virus/bacteria/Wrath of God/whatever) is causing the recently deceased to reanimate.
-A bite causes a debilitating and fatal illness.
-The zombies will eat animals, along with humans.
-Brain trauma is the only way to de-activate them.

Biggest difference is that ghouls were repelled by fire, while walkers are drawn to it. And in the first couple seasons of TWD, the walkers, like the original NOTLD ghouls, were a little faster and could do basic things like turn door knobs and pick up rocks to smash glass.

After TWD showrunner Darabont was replaced with Mazzara half way through the second season, he and Kirkman began toning down the walkers so that they were less physically capable and more like Kirkman's TWD comic book version.
Last edited by RickOShea on Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by ManInBlack316 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:45 pm

Wait, you mean to tell me that not everybody can just pick up a gun that they've never used and score 12 running headshots in a row with a ten round magazine? :awesome:

I've never really understood how being infected already, but then getting bit equals zombie in a couple of hours....
You're already infected, so what could a mere infected bite do to you? Nobody's really shown any bad health effects of the current infection running through their body while they're alive, so are we dealing with two viruses or something?
I mean, if chopping off legs works to stop the infection, shouldn't just properly treating the infected site with antibiotics stop you from prematurely turning zed?

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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by RickOShea » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:02 pm

ManInBlack316 wrote:I've never really understood how being infected already, but then getting bit equals zombie in a couple of hours....
You're already infected, so what could a mere infected bite do to you? Nobody's really shown any bad health effects of the current infection running through their body while they're alive, so are we dealing with two viruses or something?
I mean, if chopping off legs works to stop the infection, shouldn't just properly treating the infected site with antibiotics stop you from prematurely turning zed?
http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies


Transmission:

The zombie pathogen seems to possess two separate, but parallel modes of infection: latent and fluid contact/bites/scratches.

- Latent: In The Walking Dead universe, most, if not every, human being on the planet is believed to be infected by the zombie pathogen. It is currently unknown how one contracts the dormant stage of the pathogen, though its apparent total infection rate worldwide suggests it is either air-borne, water-borne, or both. Once infected, the virus spreads thoughout the body, likely concentrating in the central nervous system. However, so long as the host remains alive, the pathogen remains latent or dormant within them and is asymptomatic to the host.

- Fluid Contact/Bites/Scratches: Though physical contact with a zombie's saliva or blood will not cause an individual fatal infection, any fluid contact with open wounds will lead to irreversible contamination of the individual. However, zombie bites are not necessarily fatal because of the zombie pathogen. One possible explanation is that, through bites, the active pathogen within zombies induces a fatal and irreversible cytokine storm, further exacerbated by infection by bacteria that reside in a zombie's mouth. Scratches could cause similar infections for similar reasons, however, no one in the comic or TV-show has ever gotten the fever as a result of a scratch. While zombie scratches and clawing rarely cause fatal infections, the deep gouges generally left by zombie bites are almost always fatal; death can be potentially be avoided if the bite is on an appendage, which then must be immediately amputated. However, this does not always work, and bites on the torso, or on veins or arteries are universally fatal. Even if an amputation proves successful at removing the infection, blood loss and subsequent infection is also extremely dangerous due to the generally unprofessional execution of the procedure.
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by woodsghost » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:59 pm

I can play zombies in someone else's universe. But I also think one should consider the most realistic zombies scenarios and plan for those. I think that rage zombies and similar are the most likely to ever happen.

And yeah, zombies are a limited probability anyway :)
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by yossarian » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:05 pm

ManInBlack316 wrote:Wait, you mean to tell me that not everybody can just pick up a gun that they've never used and score 12 running headshots in a row with a ten round magazine? :awesome:

I've never really understood how being infected already, but then getting bit equals zombie in a couple of hours....
You're already infected, so what could a mere infected bite do to you? Nobody's really shown any bad health effects of the current infection running through their body while they're alive, so are we dealing with two viruses or something?
I mean, if chopping off legs works to stop the infection, shouldn't just properly treating the infected site with antibiotics stop you from prematurely turning zed?

First of all, I played a lot of Area 51 back in the day. So ya, I'm pretty good to go on the head shots. How different could it be?

Second, If you think of the Zeds like komodo dragons, then the whole bite=massive unstoppable infection and accelerated death thing works out. The bacteria kills you, the virus turns you. Good thing I stocked up fish antibiotics. :clownshoes:
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by majorhavoc » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:03 pm

ManInBlack316 wrote:Wait, you mean to tell me that not everybody can just pick up a gun that they've never used and score 12 running headshots in a row with a ten round magazine? :awesome:
Totally doable.


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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by RickOShea » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:08 pm

Well, it may take a little practice....but hell, if this Old Man can do it...... :awesome:




Headshots with Walking Dead Weaponry!

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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by Ellywick » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:43 am

woodsghost wrote:I can play zombies in someone else's universe. But I also think one should consider the most realistic zombies scenarios and plan for those. I think that rage zombies and similar are the most likely to ever happen.

And yeah, zombies are a limited probability anyway :)
Agreed. Much more likely a virus or bacteria that affects and alters living hosts behavior, rather than something which animates dead tissue...since we already have a ton of viruses in extistence that actually do that. Perfect examples are Rabies, as the corresponding hydrophobia combined with excess salivation increases likelihood of disease transmission, and Toxoplasma Gondii, which alters rodent behavior to make them more likely to be eaten by cats to complete its life cycle. The one that freaks me out the most is Ophiocordyceps Unilateralis, more commonly known as the cause of zombie ants. Did I mention that chemists in the medical field are looking at using it for antiinfective and anticancer agents in humans? Shudder. There was an X-files episode about a similar fungus affecting humans, which was freaky and compelling.

I kind of feel like realistic zombies are both more and less scary. Less scary because there is a known cause, they are taken out by more than just headshots, and hopefully modern medicine would find a way to fight against it. More scary because it feels like it would be more likely to actually happen.

No one's mentioned zombies from movies like Dead Alive (really, don't watch it if you haven't, I beg of you). Those aren't taken out until they're essentially obliterated. Or Magic Zombies , which have to be similarly dealt massive trauma, although I think people talk about them less because magic is even more fantastical to ponder than a science virus taking out all of humanity.
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by MacWa77ace » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:00 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
ManInBlack316 wrote:Wait, you mean to tell me that not everybody can just pick up a gun that they've never used and score 12 running headshots in a row with a ten round magazine? :awesome:
Totally doable.

Ah, this is a good training video. How do you know your full auto is out of ammo? Because when you pull the trigger it goes, click, click, click, click, click, until you realize you're empty and stop pulling the trigger. Its common knowledge people. Learn it, know it, live it.




Also remember, its better to go full auto for the Zombies that need headshots, that way you can make more noise and expend gross amounts of ammo to do the same thing a hammer would do.

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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by RickOShea » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:20 pm

Magic zombies are managable.....so long as you have fire and dragon glass. :crazy:

But those "Mad Z's" in the latest season of Z Nation were some tuff sominabiches.
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Re: My 2c about Combat Techniques

Post by flybynight » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:13 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
ManInBlack316 wrote:Wait, you mean to tell me that not everybody can just pick up a gun that they've never used and score 12 running headshots in a row with a ten round magazine? :awesome:
Totally doable.

Not only A GUN they never used., but the first gun, FIRST TIME , they used it

As of now I bet you got me wrong

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