Intelligence Gathering

[teotwaki]

...an old Indian village.

That is pretty cool. How old? What is left?

Sorry for the vaguely off-topic question but with all of your reconnaissance work -I suspect there are details...

Thanks,

The village was supposedly there until 1831. Without digging (illegal) there is nothing left to see but these grinding holes or mortars in bedrock:



This is/was the tribe: Tongva-Gabrieliño https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongva_people

[flybynight]

I posted this elsewhere in the forum but the takeaway is: get out there and learn the terrain. It was a lot of fun!

I "survived" a 8 mile one way/16 mile R-T mountain bike ride up an old dirt road that got me back into the local national forest. I rediscovered some great backcountry areas and I've already poured over the topo maps to locate natural springs and an old Indian village. Return trip on Memorial Weekend! I'd like to pick out a hidden area to use for overnight off-the-beaten-path camping. In the future I will also check out a bunch of power company dirt roads that might allow a different way to access this area and avoid a chokepoint in the main canyon approach.

If the springs are on a map ,you will be sharing them with some of the 18 million inhabitants of the los Angeles region. Is that Indian rock camp? The picture looked like it. Old stomping grounds for me . That also right next to a popular orv area.

[Stercutus]

If the springs are on a map ,you will be sharing them with some of the 18 million inhabitants of the los Angeles region.

Maybe not, kind of depends on what happened. Just saying.

[teotwaki]

If the springs are on a map ,you will be sharing them with some of the 18 million inhabitants of the los Angeles region. Is that Indian rock camp? The picture looked like it. Old stomping grounds for me . That also right next to a popular orv area.

No ORV allowed in this area and most of the forestry gates are locked many months of the year. That was how I was able to enjoy a fun MTB ride on a dirt road. Off the top of my head I don't recognize "Big Rock" but I'll Google-Fu it. The 18M inhabitants of LA are not a worry as their smartphone maps won't ever show the spring. It is over 40 miles south of downtown LA. I'm only looking at "overnight off-the-beaten-path camping" because there is little in the way of natural food to eat in this area. It was stripped of pine trees long ago, the feral pigs don't go there and the vegetation is sparse due to cattle grazing a while back. The land is recovering but 99% of the hikers don't get in as far as where the spring is located.

If you were out here we could go hike or bike it together. Most (not all) SoCal ZS members don't seem to actually do much. I've only met two in person: Nacho & Akin

Nacho hasn't even been here in 4 years.

Earlier you talked about powerline roads and there are some that follow a big set of towers so I hope to MTB those also.

[flybynight]

If the springs are on a map ,you will be sharing them with some of the 18 million inhabitants of the los Angeles region. Is that Indian rock camp? The picture looked like it. Old stomping grounds for me . That also right next to a popular orv area.

No ORV allowed in this area and most of the forestry gates are locked many months of the year. That was how I was able to enjoy a fun MTB ride on a dirt road. Off the top of my head I don't recognize "Big Rock" but I'll Google-Fu it. The 18M inhabitants of LA are not a worry as their smartphone maps won't ever show the spring. It is over 40 miles south of downtown LA. I'm only looking at "overnight off-the-beaten-path camping" because there is little in the way of natural food to eat in this area. It was stripped of pine trees long ago, the feral pigs don't go there and the vegetation is sparse due to cattle grazing a while back. The land is recovering but 99% of the hikers don't get in as far as where the spring is located.

If you were out here we could go hike or bike it together. Most (not all) SoCal ZS members don't seem to actually do much. I've only met two in person: Nacho & Akin

Nacho hasn't even been here in 4 years.

Earlier you talked about powerline roads and there are some that follow a big set of towers so I hope to MTB those also.

Yea I doubt I will ever return to California. Sold the last of my properties last summer. I don[t envy you your chances. It's a beautifully messed up state.

[teotwaki]

Yea I doubt I will ever return to California. Sold the last of my properties last summer. I don[t envy you your chances. It's a beautifully messed up state.

Nah, I am an optimist. Besides, I could move to Wyoming or Montana or Idaho and then the Yellowstone Caldera would cook off. Go to the PNW and Mount Rainier cooks off. Even now chances are I'll be on vacation somewhere away from my gear/talismans and a comet will strike close to my tourist locale, a commie EMP will hit or ISIS will pop a dirty nuke. Might as well be in Kalifornia with my own properties for any of that.

[teotwaki]

Earlier I touched upon railroad routes as a means to travel in disaster or PAW scenarios. I am aware that the tracks and right of ways are private property. For tracks currently in use they may be patrolled by railroad police officers. So consider this intel gathering and not an intent to trespass.

Yesterday I received my Sonrisa Publications (http://www.djcooley.com) Railroad Maps book for California and it is pretty cool. The format is similar to old style railroad timetable books, 4" x 11" and spiral bound.
ach page highlights a separate subdivision and follows the line throughout its length, crossing state boundaries as necessary. Nearby abandoned or unused routes are also shown as space allows.

Detailed maps arranged by subdivision (Sample)
Class Ones: BNSF Railway • Union Pacific
Shortlines: Alameda Corridor • Arizona & California • California Northern • Carrizo Gorge • Central California Traction • Central Oregon & Pacific • Fillmore & Western
• Lake Railway • McCloud Railway • Modesto & Empire Traction • Northwestern Pacific • Pacific Harbor Line • Quincy Railroad • San Diego & Imperial Valley
• San Joaquin Valley • Santa Cruz & Monterey Bay • Santa Maria Valley • Sierra Northern • Stockton Terminal & Eastern • Trona Railway • Ventura County • West Isle Line • Yreka Western
Tourist Lines: Napa Valley Railroad • Western Railway Museum
Station index, detector and tunnel locations
Major highways shown for reference
Fold-out detail maps of San Francisco Bay and Los Angeles Basin areas.
Fold-out locator map inside back cover is easy to access and is keyed to page numbers of detail maps
Printed on heavy ivory-colored stock for reduced glare and increased durability
Spiral bound to open flat. Folds back easily to keep your place!
72 pages, approx. 4.25 x 11 inches

The map detail is basic with just enough roads, towns or natural features to understand the path of the route. Each page includes the main radio frequency in use for that route. There are tons of web sites with more info available about the channel numbering plans (http://www.on-track-on-line.com/scanner ... #scnradio3) or what each railroad uses. You will have to be a railfan to enjoy listening to the railroad employees conduct their daily routine

The Automobile Club maps at the state level do not show railroad lines but county level and maps of similar scale do include the track routes.

Delorme state map books have R-R routes on them (based on my 1998 SoCal edition). I'll have to look at a newer edition.

Benchmark Maps state atlases have a similar format to Delorme, include railroad tracks and have good detail overall.

Some railroads offer printable maps such as this one for CSX: https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/library/f ... ystem-map/

Interactive maps online: http://www.acwr.com/economic-development/rail-maps

Legal Stuff
________________________________________________________________________________

Railroad site about track security: http://www.citizensforrailsecurity.com/ ... ement.html

California Law: Trespass and entry onto railway property is covered in Penal Code sections 369 or 602

Federal Law:

Authority: 45 U.S.C. 446; 49 CFR 1.49(ff).

Source: 59 FR 6587, Feb. 11, 1994, unless otherwise noted.

(a) A railroad police officer who is designated by a railroad and commissioned under the laws of any state is authorized to enforce the laws (as specified in paragraph (b) of this section) of any state in which the railroad owns property and to which the railroad has provided notice in accordance with §207.4.

(b) Under the authority of paragraph (a) of this section, a railroad police officer may enforce only relevant laws for the protection of—

(1) The railroad's employees, passengers, or patrons;

(2) The railroad's property or property entrusted to the railroad for transportation purposes;

(3) The intrastate, interstate, or foreign movement of cargo in the railroad's possession or in possession of another railroad or non-rail carrier while on the railroad property; and

(4) The railroad movement of personnel, equipment, and materials vital to the national defense.

(c) The authority exercised under this part by an officer for whom the railroad has provided notice in accordance with §207.4 shall be the same as that of a railroad police officer commissioned under the laws of that state.

(d) The railroad police officer's law enforcement powers shall apply only on railroad property, except that an officer may pursue off railroad property a person suspected of violating the law on railroad property, and an officer may engage off railroad property in law enforcement activities, including, without limitation, investigation and arrest, if permissible under state law

[teotwaki]

BNSF's railroad maps

intermodal routes

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/maps/ ... al-map.pdf

California route map

https://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/maps/div_ca.pdf

[EndeavourOfWill]

I am thinking he was leaving an awful lot unsaid in that. Those are just very rough guides on how to do things.

The way that guy described the bridge crossing is how we (Canada) would do it too.

[teotwaki]

On the topic of the hunt for the spring last Friday, I got within 0.2 miles according to my GPS but I was up too high on a hill to get down to the purported location. I had already been in the area for hours and the heat and the bugs were building up as well as my water was running low. It will still be fun to go back and try again.

My research of the area turned up some fascinating information that claims that there are still modest seams of coal in the canyons. In a full on PAW that would be useful for forges, steam engines and heating. Could prove to be quite a bonus to the land owners to be able to sell coal to the locals.

On the intel topic of local railroads I entered about 19 radio frequencies into a scanner and have only seen activity on 6 of them. I queried a friend who works for BNSF and he said that local rail traffic is sharply down. he advised that the railroad yard frequencies might have more activity than the road (rail) frequencies.

[teotwaki]

Link to a related ZS Thread on mapping: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=114731

[teotwaki]

Two videos I just watched:

[teotwaki]

I've been trying to keep an eye on a number of things and one intel source that I overlooked was YouTube videos about the local county's gangs including videos that the gangs have posted.

A few samples

[Aikibiker]

Very good idea. Have to search my local area.

[teotwaki]

Very good idea. Have to search my local area.

Let me know what sort of results you get!

[quazi]

I like all the pics in this thread, thanks.

I'm not sure how gangs would affect my area if things went sideways.

There aren't any street gangs around here, we're too rural for that. We do have local drug producers who are connected to drug distributors, so it's not like there is zero connection between here and organized crime. Also, if things got bad enough we are on the road system and gang members might relocate to this area.

Alaska is already going through significant economic troubles due to the low price of oil and a few other factors. I'm thinking the most likely threat from gangs out here might be home invasion robberies like FerFAL talked about in Argentina. It's a very spread-out community and law enforcement response times are already really slow for understandable reasons.

If things get bad economically a lot of people will just leave but among those left will probably be some who feel they are trapped and have nowhere else to go.

I still think that burglaries while people are away would be far more common than home invasions, but of course burglaries can end violently as well.

[Aikibiker]

Very good idea. Have to search my local area.

Let me know what sort of results you get!

Whole lot of nothing. Either I am using the wrong search terms or the local thug life sets do not like youtube. I know there are Latin Kings around the area. And the Outlaws MC is very strong in this town.

[teotwaki]

Whole lot of nothing. Either I am using the wrong search terms or the local thug life sets do not like youtube. I know there are Latin Kings around the area. And the Outlaws MC is very strong in this town.

What major town is near you?

Miami?


W. Palm?


MC Gangs

[Aikibiker]

I am in Daytona.

[teotwaki]

I am in Daytona.

Daytona crime map http://www.codb.us/index.aspx?NID=531

Gang reduction task force
http://www.floridagangreduction.com/flg ... TaskForces

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/ ... rns-police

It looks as if in the last 4 to 5 years the police in Volusia County have been pushing hard on the gangs

819 Boyz Gang dismantled in 2012



Career criminal strike force forms in Volusia County 2014

[Aikibiker]

I am in Daytona.

Daytona crime map http://www.codb.us/index.aspx?NID=531

Gang reduction task force
http://www.floridagangreduction.com/flg ... TaskForces

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/ ... rns-police

It looks as if in the last 4 to 5 years the police in Volusia County have been pushing hard on the gangs

819 Boyz Gang dismantled in 2012



Career criminal strike force forms in Volusia County 2014

Yep saw those and have actually met the gang task force guys and the Daytona Police Chief (just elected to Sheriff) at work. We get gang bangers in often. What I would like to see is their videos and social media feeds. I would like to know what they are concerned about and what motivates them.

[teotwaki]

Yep saw those and have actually met the gang task force guys and the Daytona Police Chief (just elected to Sheriff) at work. We get gang bangers in often. What I would like to see is their videos and social media feeds. I would like to know what they are concerned about and what motivates them.

If you don't already have the list of gang names and monikers get that and try some site specific searches through a couple of different search engines for Vimeo, Youtube, facebook etc.

[Brekar]

Earlier I touched upon railroad routes as a means to travel in disaster or PAW scenarios. I am aware that the tracks and right of ways are private property. For tracks currently in use they may be patrolled by railroad police officers. So consider this intel gathering and not an intent to trespass.

Yesterday I received my Sonrisa Publications (http://www.djcooley.com) Railroad Maps book for California and it is pretty cool. The format is similar to old style railroad timetable books, 4" x 11" and spiral bound.
ach page highlights a separate subdivision and follows the line throughout its length, crossing state boundaries as necessary. Nearby abandoned or unused routes are also shown as space allows.

Detailed maps arranged by subdivision (Sample)
Class Ones: BNSF Railway • Union Pacific

The map detail is basic with just enough roads, towns or natural features to understand the path of the route. Each page includes the main radio frequency in use for that route. There are tons of web sites with more info available about the channel numbering plans (http://www.on-track-on-line.com/scanner ... #scnradio3) or what each railroad uses. You will have to be a railfan to enjoy listening to the railroad employees conduct their daily routine

The Automobile Club maps at the state level do not show railroad lines but county level and maps of similar scale do include the track routes.

Delorme state map books have R-R routes on them (based on my 1998 SoCal edition). I'll have to look at a newer edition.

Benchmark Maps state atlases have a similar format to Delorme, include railroad tracks and have good detail overall.

Some railroads offer printable maps such as this one for CSX: https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/library/f ... ystem-map/

Interactive maps online: http://www.acwr.com/economic-development/rail-maps

Legal Stuff
________________________________________________________________________________

Railroad site about track security: http://www.citizensforrailsecurity.com/ ... ement.html

California Law: Trespass and entry onto railway property is covered in Penal Code sections 369 or 602

Federal Law:

Authority: 45 U.S.C. 446; 49 CFR 1.49(ff).

Source: 59 FR 6587, Feb. 11, 1994, unless otherwise noted.

(a) A railroad police officer who is designated by a railroad and commissioned under the laws of any state is authorized to enforce the laws (as specified in paragraph (b) of this section) of any state in which the railroad owns property and to which the railroad has provided notice in accordance with §207.4).

Since I am a career railroad man, I figured I would drop my 2 cents in on this part.

I work for a major railroad company as a train conductor, and I agree with you, in the event of a PAW etc, the rails have the possibility to be a good place to "travel" on, but be aware of bad weather or some dumbass in a vehicle. One bad rainstorm or tornado can take out miles of tracks without warning, and force you to possibly backtrack or at the very least take a detour that might strain your resources. The chance for this is worse the farther out you get on the rails. I had a train suddenly stop working and go into emergency once because we got cut in half by a sudden tornado that we never saw. It took out something like 40 rail cars and around 2 miles of track before vanishing. I also seen the aftermath of what happens when you pit a dump truck full of gravel against 2 locomotives and 56 loaded grain cars. Simple mistakes can effect the rails and the surrounding area quickly, making them impassible.

EXAMPLEs of what I am talking about.
Washout

Tornado

Dump Truck

On the rails you will rarely run across railroad police, they deal more with stuff at the rail yards i.e., thefts, vandals, etc. Its obviously possible, but not likely. You have a much better chance of running across a maintenance away crew or a train crew, or the occasional FRA guy or a manager setting up a surprise test.

Also those railroad timetables can have the wrong main radio frequency on them at times, even new ones, so don't 100% depend on them. Railroad yard frequencies will always have more traffic (talking) than road frequencies, unless you can find a junction where a train has to call in to get permission to continue, even then they are quiet for the most part. However rail yards frequencies are often quiet-ish because many people prefer to use hand signals unless to far away (keeps managers out of your hair that way).

UP and NFS Track Map...


In my local stomping ground gangs are a concern, Bloods, Crips, 5 Ace Deuce, etc, but they have recently had some good results against arresting and putting several of them in prison. I am not sure how this would effect me in the case of a PAW etc since I actually live in a small town 45 minutes outside of KC. I would actually be more worried about the unprepared neighbors than them, unless it happens while I am at work.

[flybynight]

The train vrs Tornado video is infamous. Is that the wreck you referred to as being on?