Global Cooling will kill us all!

Stuff that’s happening in the world that may pertain to our survival. Please keep political debates off the forum.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
Vicarious_Lee
* * * * *
Posts: 6650
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:21 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 days later, Resident Evil 2, Shaun Of The Dead, Bowling For Columbine, Farenheit 911
Location: Tumblrina City, TX

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Vicarious_Lee » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:51 pm

Nominated for Hall Of Fame if I may....


Lot of work in this thread.
duodecima wrote:The tinfoil's a clever idea...
Image

User avatar
TDW586
* * * * *
Posts: 8844
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:03 pm
Location: Here, unless I'm not, in which case, somewhere else

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by TDW586 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:07 pm

Great posts, ghostface, and thank you.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2
Image

User avatar
Tater Raider
* * * * *
Posts: 6737
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:53 pm
Location: Meatworld

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Tater Raider » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:45 pm

Vicarious_Lee wrote:Nominated for Hall Of Fame if I may....

Lot of work in this thread.
TDW586 wrote:Great posts, ghostface, and thank you.
Seconded on both counts and also thanks to williaty for some good great info as well.

LowKey
* * * * *
Posts: 4648
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Dead (original and remake)
Dawn of the Dead (original and remake)
Land of the Dead
Diary of the Dead
28 Days
28 Weeks
Resident Evil
Shawn of the Dead
Night of the Comet (cheese squared!)
Dead Alive (cheese cubed!!)
Location: In the Middle East, for my sins.

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by LowKey » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:19 pm

Tater Raider wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:Nominated for Hall Of Fame if I may....

Lot of work in this thread.
TDW586 wrote:Great posts, ghostface, and thank you.
Seconded on both counts and also thanks to williaty for some good great info as well.
Agreed!
“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
sheddi
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 3496
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:33 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later
Shaun of the Dead
Location: Hampshire, England

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by sheddi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:15 pm

All this earnest discussion of climate change, and how badly it's represented in the media at large, reminds me somehow of The Day After Tomorrow.

And this particularly entertaining review of the movie by paleoclimatologist William Hyde of Duke University, from the days when Usenet was king:
http://mindstalk.net/hyde" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Be Pure!
Be Vigilant!
Behave!


Member
ZSC:010 - UK Chapter
My EDC / GHB (needs updating)
Foundation licence holder - Mike-Six-mumble-mumble-mumble.

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Dawgboy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:45 pm

Read this article today and thought of this thread. Makes me think of the scene in I Robot where Will Smith is standing under the Mackinac bridge...

I am going to have to do a little more looking at this and the cyclic low water/high water occurrences. It does not affect me personally here in California of course, but these types of events do cause a ripple effect in the economy.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/13/us/great- ... ?hpt=hp_c1
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by phil_in_cs » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:48 am

http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2013/01/st ... ts-feared/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Study on ice cores/glacier melting in Greenland had this bit that caught my eye.
The study used ice cores to study conditions during a period of natural global warming that occurred between 115,000 and 130,000 years ago, when temperatures were about 14.5 Fahrenheit degrees higher than they are today. This was known as the Eemian period.

During this inter-glacial time about 75 percent of Greenland’s ice sheet remained intact. Accordingly, the study also indicates that Antarctica, which has much more ice, must have contributed significantly more to a sea levels that were 25 feet above what they are today.
14.5 degrees gave 25 feet of sea level change. Anyone know the levels and temperate 15,000 to 20,000 years ago when the migrations from northern Asia to North America occurred?
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Dawgboy » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:09 am

To answer your question, I have read accounts of village hearth sites that were accurately dated to 15,000 years BCE in the 200' to 300' below sea level, in the Pacific Northwest.Mostly in BC and the Alaska panhandle.

Some more food for thought:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ate-change
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:24 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:14.5 degrees gave 25 feet of sea level change. Anyone know the levels and temperate 15,000 to 20,000 years ago when the migrations from northern Asia to North America occurred?
I'd forgotten about this. XKCD posted a graphic

Image
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

User avatar
ghostface
* * * * *
Posts: 5808
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 8:14 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by ghostface » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:20 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2013/01/st ... ts-feared/

Study on ice cores/glacier melting in Greenland had this bit that caught my eye.
The study used ice cores to study conditions during a period of natural global warming that occurred between 115,000 and 130,000 years ago, when temperatures were about 14.5 Fahrenheit degrees higher than they are today. This was known as the Eemian period.

During this inter-glacial time about 75 percent of Greenland’s ice sheet remained intact. Accordingly, the study also indicates that Antarctica, which has much more ice, must have contributed significantly more to a sea levels that were 25 feet above what they are today.
14.5 degrees gave 25 feet of sea level change. Anyone know the levels and temperate 15,000 to 20,000 years ago when the migrations from northern Asia to North America occurred?
I know I'm late to this, but that quote may be a little misleading. The Eemian was perhaps slightly warmer than present globally and annually, but not that much. Due to Milankovitch (i.e. orbital) variation, it was seasonally much warmer in the high latitude Northern Hemisphere. So when TFA is talking about "when temperatures were about 14.5 Fahrenheit degrees higher than they are today" on the Greenland Ice Sheet (GrIS) they don't mean globally. And for what it's worth, Greenland has very recently been seeing anomalously hot summers of about that same amount (~8-10°C) above present "average" values.

Sea level at the full extent of the LGM (~26-19kya) was ~130m lower than present (see Clark et al., 2009 but note that "BP/before present" refers by convention to 1950 rather than today). Globally, temperatures were in the neighborhood of ~4-6°C colder than present (e.g. Annan and Hargreaves, 2013 and Schneider von Deimling et al., 2006).

Also note that we have a pretty decent constraint on the total change in sea level. So when you see an article that says something like "Greenland ice sheet not as sensitive to temperatures as previously thought", you cannot assume that means a concomitant reduction in expected sea level rise using paleoclimatic analogs. Rather, it implies that the sea level change must have come from somewhere else, such as the East Antarctic Ice Sheet (EAIS), which had previously been assumed to be relatively insensitive to temp change. It looks like a non-trivial portion of sea level rise that we had previously been assuming must have come from GrIS in previous instances of melt may actually have came from the EAIS (e.g. Cook et al., 2013, though note this for the Pliocene rather than Pleistiocene).
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices, to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own...

Syncretic
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:04 am

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Syncretic » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:36 pm

I won't pretend to have read this entire thread, but I have heard " We all gonna die!" so many times it's hard to take seriously. Invariably, it is at least hinted that humanity is to blame, if not blamed outright, and shortly thereafter doomsday passes uneventfully. I don't doubt that the climate is changing. It always has before. I'm just not willing to commit to the hysterics so many seem to believe are appropriate. The experts have been wrong too often. Yeah, I can give examples.
“A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot...”
― Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Dawgboy » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:37 pm

So you think ALL the experts, worldwide, are wrong?


Brought to you by Cyberdyne Systems
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

Syncretic
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:04 am

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Syncretic » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:57 pm

No, I don't think the title of expert makes you a dunce, if that is what you are implying. However, remember the hole in the ozone? How hairspray and refrigerants were going to scorch us all? Turns out the hole in the ozone was a perfectly naturally phenomenon brought on by fluctuations in the Earths magnetic field. Y2K? Not much there. How about the time all men would be sterile by about 2050? Turns out the drop in sperm count was due to finally receiving adequate iodine. All the frogs were going to die because of pollution and again, it was due to a normal, cyclic increase in a particular parasite. How about all the diseases that were going to obliterate us? Swine flu, SARS, any number mosquito borne diseases, Ebola, etc. I can provide more examples if you like, but my point is that things change and it isn't always our fault, or for that matter as a grave an issue as the "experts" claim. Yes, the climate is going to change. It will with or without our presence. It always has. I only question the doom and gloom predictions.
“A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot...”
― Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by phil_in_cs » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:09 pm

ghostface wrote:I know I'm late to this, but that quote may be a little misleading.....
That can be summed up as the "science guy" at a local big city paper not really understanding his material and trying to make a catchy phrase to make sure his piece is run.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:13 pm

Dawgboy wrote:So you think SOME of the experts, worldwide, are wrong?


Brought to you by Cyberdyne Systems
FTFY.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Dawgboy » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:17 pm

Yup, the ones paid for by big oil, big coal, and natural gas companies are most definitely lying...


Brought to you by Cyberdyne Systems
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
Vicarious_Lee
* * * * *
Posts: 6650
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:21 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 days later, Resident Evil 2, Shaun Of The Dead, Bowling For Columbine, Farenheit 911
Location: Tumblrina City, TX

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Vicarious_Lee » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:43 pm

Dawgboy wrote:Yup, the ones paid for by big oil, big coal, and natural gas companies are most definitely lying...


Brought to you by Cyberdyne Systems
ZS also has, just like we have climate scientists that work for political groups in Washington DC, active and contributing members whose careers are in the "big"(and scary and evil and uncaring and profiteering and OMG they just want to kill us all for profit!) energy production industries.

Do not shit up what is literally the best, most well reasoned, most temperate, and most comprehensive thread on climate change that I have ever found on the internet to this date, with snarky oppositional zealous crap.

Syncretic: You need to read this thread. All of it, in its entirety. I meant what I said. It's fantastic, well-reasoned, backed by real research, and has some amazing entries. Pay particular attention to former moderator ghostface's posts, but there are a slew of good thoughts on the realities of our temperature rising globally and changing the way we get things done in small, moderate, and big ways.

It's worth a long sit-down read. There is another thread somewhere in the graveyard that is similarly knowledge-rich, but it was shit up, locked, and buried because of the same ranting bullshit. So much so that a search of The Graveyard can't get me to find it.

And that's sad and unnecessary, and shouldn't be allowed to happen to this one.
duodecima wrote:The tinfoil's a clever idea...
Image

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Dawgboy » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:59 pm

Ya know Vicarious, I have been a long time supporter and contributor to this thread, and feel that you are raising your voice out of turn. If you have a problem with me, either take it up with a moderator, or take it to PM.

'Nuff said.

Back on track here, Here is an interesting article on consensus among scientists. Certainly worth a read if you have any doubts about what Climatologists are saying/thinking...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 203048.htm
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
ghostface
* * * * *
Posts: 5808
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 8:14 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by ghostface » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:53 am

Syncretic wrote:However, remember the hole in the ozone? How hairspray and refrigerants were going to scorch us all? Turns out the hole in the ozone was a perfectly naturally phenomenon brought on by fluctuations in the Earths magnetic field.
This is completely false. Ozone depletion via man-made CFCs (and other halogenated gases) is uncontroversial fact. The science that went into identifying the problem resulted in the awarding of the Nobel Prize for Chemistry. Due to binding international agreement, emissions of ozone depleting substances (ODSs) have decreased significantly, and stratospheric ozone is slowly recovering.

I don't know how you came to believe this demonstrable untruth, but I hope that you are willing to correct this mistaken belief. And the depletion of the ozone layer wasn't about burning in terms of heat (though ODSs are typically also GHGs), but rather about ultraviolet radiation. "Scorch", not so much- increase incidence of skin cancers, yes.
Y2K? Not much there.


This was not a physical science issue, but there was a tremendous amount of effort that went into ensuring that the potential negative effects of the problem were avoided. That's like saying a case of appendicitis wasn't significant because of a successful appendectomy.
How about the time all men would be sterile by about 2050? Turns out the drop in sperm count was due to finally receiving adequate iodine.
I have no idea what this refers to.
All the frogs were going to die because of pollution and again, it was due to a normal, cyclic increase in a particular parasite.


There is a current, ongoing mass die off of amphibians caused by a synergy of stressors, some natural, others unquestionably man-made. I don't know about "pollution", but pesticides, habitat fragmentation, and other anthropogenic stressors are contributing to the die off. While the chytrid fungus has been implicated as one of these stressors, it is certainly not the only one, nor is it at all clear that it is "normal" or "cyclical"- anthropogenic climate change may have exacerbated its spread in some areas due to precipitation/moisture availability changes.
How about all the diseases that were going to obliterate us? Swine flu, SARS, any number mosquito borne diseases, Ebola, etc.


Can you please point to any scientific consensus that those diseases were supposed to "obliterate us"? It sounds like you're ranting against a straw man.
my point is that things change and it isn't always our fault
It isn't always, but it occasionally is. The present climatic change is one of those occasions.
or for that matter as a grave an issue as the "experts" claim.


Some times things turn out to be less severe than first feared, other times they are pretty much what was expected. Still other times they are worse.

Not sure why you're putting "experts" in scare quotes. The track record of the scientific community (not the media, not partisan ideological groups) is pretty darn good.
Yes, the climate is going to change. It will with or without our presence. It always has.
The existence of natural climate change no more precludes the existence of serious, dangerous human-driven climate change than the existence of naturally caused forest fires precludes the existence of deadly forest fires caused by arson.

Yes, there are natural drivers of climatic change, both in terms of variability and trends. However, the climate is not a mysterious, magical, unknowable system. It responds to internal variability and externally-imposed changes in radiative forcings. By cranking up greenhouse gases, we are increasing radiative forcing, creating an energy imbalance, necessitating warming to a hotter equilibrium, which precipitates a number of changes to the climate system.

That doesn't mean natural changes in climate don't exist. The El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is still the largest source of change in globally-averaged temperature and precipitation on year-to-year timescales. But it does mean that humans are the dominant driver of climate change on multidecadal timescales, and that we have altered the atmospheric composition beyond anything seen for the past few million years, and that things are happening as a result.
I only question the doom and gloom predictions.
No offense, but given your misunderstandings of all of the stuff you said above, I am a little skeptical that you actually are familiar with mainstream scientific predictions of what we can expect for a given increase in greenhouse gases.
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices, to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own...

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Dawgboy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:30 am

Thanks Ghostface. I was going to break it down last night, but after having been told I was "shitting up the thread", I decided to cool off instead...

I am curious on your take from that science daily article I posted. Any comment?
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
ghostface
* * * * *
Posts: 5808
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 8:14 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by ghostface » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:26 pm

Dawgboy wrote:I am curious on your take from that science daily article I posted. Any comment?
Dawgboy wrote:Here is an interesting article on consensus among scientists. Certainly worth a read if you have any doubts about what Climatologists are saying/thinking...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 203048.htm
There is overwhelming scientific consensus that humans are driving the present warming and climatic change. Back in 2004, Naomi Oreskes surveyed the scientific literature and found there was basically no disagreement over this. In 2009, Doran and Zimmerman demonstrated that agreement among scientists actively publishing on climate was 97%. In 2010 Anderegg et al. found that of those scientists actively publishing in climate science who have taken a public position on the issue, 97-98% were in agreement with the consensus. The link you provided refers to Cook et al. what is essentially an extension and expansion upon the Oreskes survey, and found that in the scientific literature of papers that took a position, 97% supported the consensus. It also had scientists rate their own publications and found the same level of endorsement.

So what we have is multiple lines of independent evidence (polling scientists directly, looking at public positions taken by scientists, and examining the primary scientific literature) pointing to the same conclusion:

The "skeptic"/denialist view is a fringe position rejected by all but a handful of people in the relevant field.

There is some other very interesting stuff that comes out of Cook et al., such as the emergence of the consensus in the scientific literature much earlier than most people (even those on the side of the consensus), back in the early-mid 1990s. Also, the number of papers that take no position on the cause increases faster than the number of papers that do, which is actually what you expect when science is functioning normally. It's basically the "spiral trajectory" of consensus as described by Shwed and Bearman. Essentially, as consensus emerges and a question is no longer debatable, the scientific literature begins to "move on" to more interesting and less settled questions and stops mentioning the consensus position. In geology papers, the reality of plate tectonics is no longer debatable, so relatively fewer and fewer publications endorse the consensus on it directly. Another interesting aspect of the Cook et al. paper is that it demonstrates the geographic and disciplinary diversity underlying the consensus. It's not just a cadre of scientists in a single country or from a certain culture, and nor is it just a specific subdiscipline- rather the consensus is international and interdisciplinary, with the solar people, and the ocean people, and the atmo people, and so on all in agreement (which is itself a neat refutation of attacks on motivation- if it was a conspiracy to gin up funding, you'd hardly expect the solar people to vehemently agree it's GHGs and not the sun).
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices, to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own...

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Dawgboy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:30 pm

One more data point. The north pole is a lake today...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ather.html
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
DarkAxel
* * * * *
Posts: 3861
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:25 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: The Evil Dead Series, Dawn of the Dead, Shawn of the Dead, NOTLD, Resident Evil Series
Location: Jackson, KY
Contact:

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by DarkAxel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:28 am

Incoming wall of text:

Personally, I think that there is enough data to indicate that humans do have a measurable impact on the Earth ranging from subjects like climate change to extinction. Over-fishing/over-hunting and deforestation come to mind. It stands to reason that if we can completely drive the plains buffalo to extinction, couldn't we could alter the makeup of our atmosphere to a point where our impact could become the driving force behind it? If not that, could our influence hasten climate change? I'm not sure about the former given what little we really know about how natural phenomenon effect Earth's climate. Any scientist worth his salt knows the real limitations of their educations and practice, and long-term climate change and general climate change, for that matter,are relative newcomers to the scientific disciplines. To contrast, Algebra is hundreds of years old, and the science behind mathematical principles behind gear ratios, astronomy, and geometry are thousands of years old. However, I do believe that scientific data supports the idea that the human species as a whole is accelerating climate change. However, that scientific data is being collected and interpreted by human beings. Since human beings are also burdened by all sorts of agendas, political leanings, levels of confidence, and even ethical standards, it stands to reason that people on the edges of the scientific neutrality bell curve are more than willing to falsify their conclusions. Read all information that seems alarmist or hinky carefully (and never take anything printed in the press at face value), but be open to the possibility that the info could be true.

As to what we as humans do to impact our climate, I see little difference between reducing use in energy derived from hydrocarbons and stocking a prepper's pantry. I don't see the difference between that and carbon emission or wildlife/plant-life conservation. Sane preppers put away goods, skills, and technology for inevitable disasters (personal/financial, natural, and mad-made) that they hope to pass on unneeded to their children and their children's children. I want my grand-kids to have as much as possible so they can have the best chance to survive and thrive. If we do our part to reduce our ecological and climatological impact, isn't that prepping against the possibility that you were wrong? If, as some people claim, the experts are seriously divided on the question of rapid climate change, it would stand to reason that a goodish number of highly intelligent and well-educated people are wrong. If they can be wrong, you can be wrong. And if you can't admit that you may be wrong, then you lack a fundamental understanding of the scientific method or are ignoring it on purpose.

I think global climate change is something worth prepping for. Even if it is a natural cycle there has been a noticeable uptick in the intensity of climate-related disasters, and a lot of that no-carbon or low-carbon emission technology also makes life easier during and after disasters. It's also a hell of a lot more convenient when it comes to self-sufficient living.

ETA editing.
Last edited by DarkAxel on Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
vyadmirer wrote:Call me the paranoid type, but remember I'm on a post apocalyptic website prepared for zombies.
Fleet #: ZS 0180

Browncoat

Imma Fudd, and proud of it.

ZS Wiki

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 4027
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: Global Cooling will kill us all!

Post by Halfapint » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:56 am

So I've been reading this thread because the title caught my eye, and was going to swoop in here and lay down the law. Then I started reading and by god I've learned more from this single post about climate change then I think I have in years of reading, researching and looking. I have absolutely nothing to add to this conversation but my pure admiration to both Dawgboy, Goastface, and a few others. Maybe I will one day post on here with something useful that helps further this topic. Living in a coastal city that has a generally low elevation climate change has always been something that fascinates me.

Thanks again for such an interesting read I agree this should be hall of famed.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

Post Reply

Return to “Disasters in Current Events”