Fallout.

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Fallout.

Post by Manliest » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:29 am

Imagine, if you will, that a sizable nuclear explosion occurred the moment you clicked on this thread. Call it 7-9mi from where you're sitting RIGHT NOW. Your real plan of action will vary, of course, with the options of bugging out to a better location or to shelter in place, and many variations thereof.
For the sake of the discussion, please assume that you're forced to shelter in place, wherever you are. Let's also assume that, if not at home, you have access to your vehicle if it's within 1/4mi of your current location.

-What sort of structure are you in?
-What materials are available to you to improve your shelter?
-What tools and supplies do you have easy access to?
-What actions will you take in the next 30min to hour?

Feel free to respond in any form you like. I appreciate your responses, because I'm starting this thread as much to make others think as to steal your ideas for myself. 8)

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Re: Fallout.

Post by Manliest » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:05 am

I am at home, in my bed, which is sort of cheating myself, so I may do this again later. Insomnia is a bitch. Two story wood framed house with a full, partially finished basement with no exterior doors and six 2'x3' windows set below ground level, about a 45min drive from the nearest city and 15min drive from town. It's a rental, so I haven't made any survival-related modifications. The fact that a nuke hit within 9mi of me means that their guidance sucks, or there was a well-kept-secret target.
Using this map tool, I should be safe enough from overpressure from a 500kt nuke. My windows will break, maybe some other minor damage, but my house is pretty solid. Assuming it doesn't fall or burn down, my actions are as follow:
-Wake the girlfriend. Haul her ass to the basement room I've designated as a potential shelter. Three sides are block walls, two outside walls and one the furnace room.
-Have the GF begin filling Rubbermaid bins with water to a minimum depth of 2'. Cover, and place on the floor of the room above my shelter space, to provide some shielding from above.
-Run water into bathtubs and sinks.
-Place plastic and plywood sheets over basement windows, and over any 1st floor broken windows.
-Fill basement window basins with dirt.
-Consider going to MOPP 4 based on elapsed time since blast (should be roughly 30min).
-Pack dirt against the above ground 18" of walls for my shelter space, 3' deep.
-Park the cars against the same wall. Cover them with the large tarps, hopefully weighted down at the ground. I have no rational basis for this, I just feel like it can't hurt to keep the ground nearest the shelter space as clear of particles as possible.
-Fill cardboard file boxes with earth. I have 30 empty ones right now for this purpose.
-Go inside. Decon in upstairs spare bedroom, though probably not necessary, still a good precaution.
-Pile dirt boxes against outside of wood wall of shelter room.
-Move kitchen and pantry foods downstairs.
-Gather other items not already stored in basement (all on-site preps and storage live in the basement), move to basement.
-Hunker down. Re-read Nuclear War Survival binder.
-Try nuke war crafts: air filter/exchanger from NWSS by CW Kearney.
-Cross fingers. I do not have radiation detection equipment other than a Nukalert, so I'm hoping 30 days will be long enough for me to get some information, otherwise I'm coming out in a month to scout around and hopefully get in on the 3rd or 4th round of "salvaging".

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Re: Fallout.

Post by mantis » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:39 am

Manliest wrote:Cross fingers. I do not have radiation detection equipment other than a Nukalert, so I'm hoping 30 days will be long enough for me to get some information, otherwise I'm coming out in a month to scout around and hopefully get in on the 3rd or 4th round of "salvaging".
You'd be safe to come out of the shelter for limited exposure after about 14 days and safe to stay out of it a few days later. As far as salvaging goes...if by salvaging, you mean looting, there wouldn't be a third or fourth round of it. Everything that wasn't destroyed or contaminated would have been looted in the immediate aftemath. Besides, by the time it's safe to be outside, people would be ready to start defending their property/stores, etc and would shoot looters on sight.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by XboxStarfish » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:28 pm

I can hide in the fridge.

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Re: Fallout.

Post by Tribunal Power » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:34 pm

If you were only 7-9mi away from the epicenter of a 'sizeable' nuclear blast, such as a warhead, you would be vaporized. But if it was something a little less severe, like a nuclear plant detonating, you might be alive... But I'll go ahead and assume you meant 7-9mi away from the edge of the killzone.

What would I do? Repent of sins, grab the BOB and try to get as far into the opposite direction as I could before I collapsed from radiation poisoning. I don't know much about radiation, but I do know that living in a second floor apartment with paper-thin walls and no basement or shelter is not the best defense. Unfortunately my industrial military grade fallout shelter is, uh, under repair. And my anti-nuclear warhead SAM site is at the cleaners.

Yep, I'm boned. ):

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Re: Fallout.

Post by 0122358 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:06 pm

well if its 7-9 miles away from me...then they suck horribly becuase the only town nearest to me to nuke is Seattle (fellow WA members, correct me if im wrong) or Tacoma with JBLM (then im really screwed) and Bangor sub base up in kitsap county...after thinking it over..im screwed.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by JIM » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:15 am

I live in a 5-story appartment building....with a underground parking garage :D We just need to grab our BOB's and some more water. There are extra supplies in our car.

However if the warning sirens go off I would just stay put in my appartment, shut down ventilation and tape the holes shut. Fill some jerrycans with water and listen to the radio/tv/internet.
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mantis
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Re: Fallout.

Post by mantis » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:06 am

JIM wrote:I live in a 5-story appartment building....with a underground parking garage :D We just need to grab our BOB's and some more water. There are extra supplies in our car.

However if the warning sirens go off I would just stay put in my appartment, shut down ventilation and tape the holes shut. Fill some jerrycans with water and listen to the radio/tv/internet.
An underground parking garage would provide excellent protection - especially if you are inside a vehicle. The danger there though is that the building above it could be collapsed in the blast either collapsing the parking garage or burying it and turning it into a tomb. If the building is far enough away from ground zero not to be collapsed and not to be imploded when the massive fireball sucks out all the oxygen from it's immediate area, you'd be safer than most.
Doc Torr wrote:"Those who live by the sword get shot by those who see them coming a hundred yards away."
roscoe wrote:.....and don't plan on being The Humongous - it ain't happening.

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Re: Fallout.

Post by NorthernAlpine » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:41 am

This one is kind of in my wheelhouse so I will throw in my .02, this might be kind of long but here are some FF's (fun facts) to consider when doing your nuclear planning...

The Actual Blast!
I am going to assume by the general situation that your residence didn't get blown away and you're alive. Got it. So grab your pants and check this out.

This is going to sound ridiculous, but post-blast you can get a rough idea about how nasty the fallout is about to be by looking at the mushroom cloud about an hour after detonation.

Why in God's name would I look at the Mushroom cloud and why wait an hour?!
Good question! Before anyone gets bent out of shape about this, there is reasoning behind this:
- If you can determine (roughly) the type of burst you can determine (again, roughly) the amount of fallout you're going to get.
- At one hour post-blast (or H+1), the mushroom cloud is going to be at it's peak height.

WTF is a burst type?
The term burst is relative to where in elevation the actual detonation happens. There are three types of bursts: Air (above ground), Surface (on the ground), Sub-Surface (below the ground). Easy right?

So what is the difference and how is that going to tell me anything about fallout or keep me alive?
Another great question, check this out:
o With an Airburst the detonation occurs above actual contact with the ground by several hundred feet to several thousand feet, the blast/overpressure is going to be much more dramatic and devastating to structures, but the actual fallout is going to be less.
- In a nutshell, with an airburst, the actual 'bang' is worse because it's effects aren't stopped by the ground, the bases and foundations of buildings and all the other obstructions we see at ground level as we walk down the street. Makes sense right?

o With a Surface/Ground Burst the detonation happens at ground level, there is a blast wave, a tremendous rush of overpressure (forward moving) and then underpressure (retracting/vacuum) waves of heat, and in the midst of all this the EMP. For over and underpressure, think of it like a water balloon that drops on the ground: at first it expands all the way out when it hits, then is sucks back in as it rises via the bounce. With a Surface burst though, the heat will come into contact with far more flammable things than an airburst. That heat will cause a larger number of things to catch on fire immediately. All that burning stuff is going to be irradiated instantly, and like a campfire, small particles are going to get sucked upwards and comes down elsewhere, which in turn causes the fallout to be much larger.
- In English: The Surface burst catches more things on fire, more things that are irrdiated and catch fire means more fallout.

o With a Sub-Surface burst, the detonation actually occurs below the surface. There are a lot of ways this can happen that I won't go into, but the important thing to remember is that it is going to have the worst fallout of all the types, but the blast effects will be less in general as the earth itself is going to dampen the blast effects.

So how is the Airburst going to have less fallout and the Surface and Sub-Surface going to have more Fallout?
o Less things on fire equals less fallout. The Surface blast is going to have more contact with flammable things. The Sub-Surface blast however, will have copious amounts of soil/dirt that becomes irradiated and sucked upwards that will eventually fall back down to earth (read: radioactive volcano). Simple as that.

That's all great and everything, but how the hell do I know which one is which?
Airburst: the mushroom cloud base will be high in the sky and visible, it will look like it went bang in the clouds.
Surface: the mushroom cloud will appear generally darker, the base will not be visible. This is the most likely one we'll see. Maybe.
Sub-Surface: watch a video of a volcano blowing, a dirty, dirty base and fiery cloud will form.

So what exactly is fallout?
Fallout is irradiated particles of materials, or for simple people like me: dust that is bad for you because it is radioactive.

I better get my space suit, motorcycle helmet with aluminum foil coating, MOPP IV, and lead undies on right?
No. I like the mental picture though.

Why?
Radioactive Fallout is generally not dangerous unless it's ingested or it lands on exposed skin and remains there for a period of time.

Say What?
I know, crazy right? Depending on the type of radiation, the best and most reasonable thing you can do is wear a few extra layers of clothes, don't expose any skin, cover your mouth with a particulate/filter (if you have one) or a cloth and coffee filter combination(in a bind, and very effective). Here's the real kicker, in order to get clean from fallout: dust yourself off. Just don't wipe skin with hot water, it opens the pores and that is a bad thing.

Thats awesome. But what do you mean 'depending on the radiation'?
There are a few different types of radiation, and each type has different effects and limits. Not all of it will turn you into 'the Hills have Eyes'. Maybe your hills already have eyes...

Radiation:
o Neutron - This will fry your internal organs, skin, pets, cause crazy things to start happening at the genetic level (read: tumors, radiation poisoning/sickness). The most immediate danger is at the time of actual detonation, the neutron release is huge, and the particles pose the biggest threat as they pretty much go through anything they want, these will dissipate as they come into contact with various materials and buildings as they travel. They are genereally only released at the time of explosion.
o Gamma - These will cause moderate to severe burns on your skin, and can severely damage your internal organs. These too can travel through almost anything. Almost.
o Beta - Can cause moderate burns on the skin, and do some damage to internals. These are strong but can be blocked and have less range then Gamma.
o Alpha - Shortest range of them all (think inches to feet), only dangerous if ingested or absorbed through an open wound, blocked by almost anything.

There's hope? Oh snap! Tell me more!
Alpha radiation can be blocked by your skin, or prefferably, your clothes! Beta can be blocked by something so simple as 1 sheet of aluminum foil. Gamma requires about a foot or so of concrete or about an inch(ish) of lead or a metal of similar density. Neutron, well, let's be honest, it's pretty much a done deal. Try not to go streaking naked at the time of detonation, or limit your exposure is the best bet. I may be off on the thickness of the concrete and lead, but use it as a guideline or hit up your google bar.

How will I know what kind of Radiation is around me?
Unless you have military grade instruments or some off-the-shelf gear, hard to say. Radiation doesn't wear nametags. Little bastards...

I knew I was going to need that helmet! What else should I know?
Here's the FF's I promised:
o Time, Distance, Shielding are your friends. Check this out:
- From the time of detonation, the half life is already working in your favor. Half-Life is the period of time required for a decaying radioactive source to have 50% of it's original energy. At ground zero it might be a nightmare with a 10k year half-life, but 20 miles away the fallout with a weaker reading maybe already have reached it's first half-life making it 50% less dangerous. Yay!
- Everytime you double your distance from the radiation source, you cut the amount of radiation to 25% or one quarter of what it was. If the OP said it was 7-9 miles away from ground zero, if you go to 14-18 miles away, the radiation is going to be 25% of where your house was. At about 40 miles, 25% of that and so on.
- Concrete and heavy metals are now your friends! That lead paint you ate as a kid can actually help you now. So can being in the basement, surrounded by a concrete foundation that is probably a foot or more thick. Put up sandbags, the hood of that broken down car in your neighbors yard, scrap metal, aluminum foil, whatever. The more the better.
o Which way is the wind blowing? Yes, that's right. If you double the distance from your house but are heading in the same direction as the prevailing wind, the fallout is going to be following you like a bill collector. Nobody wants to drive a hundred miles and arrive to have it snowing radioactive ash. Look at Mt. St. Helens or Japan's reactor fiasco: the prevailing winds blew east from the Puget Sound, volcanic ash was recorded as far as Montana and the Dakotas. Hawaii and the northern Pacific Coast has seen an increase in radiation readings from Japan's situation. Go against the grain on this one. If for some reason we get rained on by nukes, things might be difficult.


Hopefully you have learned a bit of something and I hope this might help in some degree. There is some confusion at times at about what to expect.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by Grainman » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:09 am

Tribunal Power wrote:If you were only 7-9mi away from the epicenter of a 'sizeable' nuclear blast, such as a warhead, you would be vaporized. But if it was something a little less severe, like a nuclear plant detonating, you might be alive... But I'll go ahead and assume you meant 7-9mi away from the edge of the killzone.

[snip]

Yep, I'm boned. ):
You may be overestimating the destructive effects of your typical nuclear weapon. Tsutomu Yamaguchi (and lots of other people) was around 3km (2 miles) from both the Little Boy (~15kt) and Fat Man (~20kt) nuclear explosions and survived. He was injured by the Little Boy explosion when he was standing outside, but he was back at work within a few days (he was working when the Fat Man exploded three days later apparently), and with the Fat Man explosion he was unhurt since he was inside of a building. He did suffer various health problems later in life though, and it was probably a contributing factor in his death from cancer ... 70 years later. ;-) Now modern bombs are much more powerful (the majority of the US arsenal is 100kt-350kt for example), but blast radius increases more slowly than yield; the rule of thumb I've read was to double the blast radius you quadruple the yield [some online example blast radius's for different yields tend to agree with this estimate]. Working from that at a range of 12km/8mile from a 240kt-320kt weapon would have similar affects to what Yamaguchi encountered. There are larger devices out there of course: about 15% of America's weapons (about 1500 warheads) are bigger, and the material I read would suggest that 100-200 Chinese weapons and about half of Russia's arsenal (about 1500 warheads/400 missiles; the Russians like their multi-warhead missiles) would be above that range, but the majority of nuclear devices are below 400kt.

As for the original question beyond filling up all my water bottles and other contains (I probably have 80lt/20gal on hand, and could probably double or triple that by filling various empty bottles, buckets, since, etc) and closing all the windows and doors and doing my best to seal them with tape while breaking out my very limited NBC supplies (a few face masks, and a bit of plastic sheeting) I haven't got that much of an idea of how to deal with nuclear events.

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Re: Fallout.

Post by MacAttack » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:31 pm

After the initial blast the only real radiation you have to worry about is the fallout debris. The dust and ash.

Don't play in it and don't breath it.

If you survive the blast DON"T go OUTSIDE to play in the dirt or drive off. All your doing is just playing in the dust. Unless you KNOW that you can drive out of the fall out range and area inside of an hour then your just setting yourself up to be stuck in a traffic jamb when the stuff starts to fall and reach the ground.

Stay in your house/habitation. Turn off the furnace and ventilation systems. They will just suck in contaminated air. Close the windows and seal them up as best as possible. No need to waste time covering up the basement windows with dirt outside. Just seal them up from the inside. Don't waste water filling buckets and putting them over your head. Just fill them and use them to drink out of. Put them in the basement with you so you don't need to run upstairs to get to them.

Turn on your emergency radio. Someone soon will start to tell you were the wind is blowing and what areas will be safe/safer from fallout.

Post a note on your door telling rescuers where you are. If the NG or other rescuers come by it would be nice if they knew how many of you there are and where you are. Any thieves, scavengers don't matter since they will more than likely now assume your armed and dangerous. They are looking for unoccupied homes. Easy targets.

Prepare to stay in place anyplace from 2 days to 2 weeks. Depending on the weather. Try to have a filtered air system, nothing extravagant You will NEVER make a perfect system without a boatload of cash. After that you should have an idea from the radio of where to go to be safe.
Don't turn on the car air system no matter what. Keep you gas mask on and your "suit". Look around the net for an expedient suit you could use. Remember that even military chem suits don't stop radiation. Keep the dust off mainly.
Surgical/painters masks don't work. If you can't get an military style mask at least spend the few bucks and get an automotive painters mask with changeable filters. They seal up WAY better. After painting several vehicles I can attest to this. Those simple cheap face masks are fine for a few minutes. But they do NOT seal up around the edges well at all. 15 minutes in a paint booth and glued nose hairs prove this one.

Remember that any food and water you plan on having needs to be treated just like you would yourself. Dust free.

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Re: Fallout.

Post by Cold and dead » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:06 am

a 5 megaton blast will destroy buildings up to 10miles away, blast off clothing and skin up to 15-20 miles... you will have about 30seconds to take cover at 15-20miles. Fallout will reach 150-200miles depending on winds over a few days, the fallout will lose 99.9% potency in 24hours, that is not to say that the .1% can not kill you.

well that's what this Canadian survival stuff says anyway, not sure how old it is think its from the cold war era its all about if the US gets nuked
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Re: Fallout.

Post by 305Survivalist » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:41 pm

NorthernAlpine wrote:This one is kind of in my wheelhouse so I will throw in my .02, this might be kind of long but here are some FF's (fun facts) to consider when doing your nuclear planning...

The Actual Blast!
I am going to assume by the general situation that your residence didn't get blown away and you're alive. Got it. So grab your pants and check this out.

This is going to sound ridiculous, but post-blast you can get a rough idea about how nasty the fallout is about to be by looking at the mushroom cloud about an hour after detonation.

Why in God's name would I look at the Mushroom cloud and why wait an hour?!
Good question! Before anyone gets bent out of shape about this, there is reasoning behind this:
- If you can determine (roughly) the type of burst you can determine (again, roughly) the amount of fallout you're going to get.
- At one hour post-blast (or H+1), the mushroom cloud is going to be at it's peak height.

WTF is a burst type?
The term burst is relative to where in elevation the actual detonation happens. There are three types of bursts: Air (above ground), Surface (on the ground), Sub-Surface (below the ground). Easy right?

So what is the difference and how is that going to tell me anything about fallout or keep me alive?
Another great question, check this out:
o With an Airburst the detonation occurs above actual contact with the ground by several hundred feet to several thousand feet, the blast/overpressure is going to be much more dramatic and devastating to structures, but the actual fallout is going to be less.
- In a nutshell, with an airburst, the actual 'bang' is worse because it's effects aren't stopped by the ground, the bases and foundations of buildings and all the other obstructions we see at ground level as we walk down the street. Makes sense right?

o With a Surface/Ground Burst the detonation happens at ground level, there is a blast wave, a tremendous rush of overpressure (forward moving) and then underpressure (retracting/vacuum) waves of heat, and in the midst of all this the EMP. For over and underpressure, think of it like a water balloon that drops on the ground: at first it expands all the way out when it hits, then is sucks back in as it rises via the bounce. With a Surface burst though, the heat will come into contact with far more flammable things than an airburst. That heat will cause a larger number of things to catch on fire immediately. All that burning stuff is going to be irradiated instantly, and like a campfire, small particles are going to get sucked upwards and comes down elsewhere, which in turn causes the fallout to be much larger.
- In English: The Surface burst catches more things on fire, more things that are irrdiated and catch fire means more fallout.

o With a Sub-Surface burst, the detonation actually occurs below the surface. There are a lot of ways this can happen that I won't go into, but the important thing to remember is that it is going to have the worst fallout of all the types, but the blast effects will be less in general as the earth itself is going to dampen the blast effects.

So how is the Airburst going to have less fallout and the Surface and Sub-Surface going to have more Fallout?
o Less things on fire equals less fallout. The Surface blast is going to have more contact with flammable things. The Sub-Surface blast however, will have copious amounts of soil/dirt that becomes irradiated and sucked upwards that will eventually fall back down to earth (read: radioactive volcano). Simple as that.

That's all great and everything, but how the hell do I know which one is which?
Airburst: the mushroom cloud base will be high in the sky and visible, it will look like it went bang in the clouds.
Surface: the mushroom cloud will appear generally darker, the base will not be visible. This is the most likely one we'll see. Maybe.
Sub-Surface: watch a video of a volcano blowing, a dirty, dirty base and fiery cloud will form.

So what exactly is fallout?
Fallout is irradiated particles of materials, or for simple people like me: dust that is bad for you because it is radioactive.

I better get my space suit, motorcycle helmet with aluminum foil coating, MOPP IV, and lead undies on right?
No. I like the mental picture though.

Why?
Radioactive Fallout is generally not dangerous unless it's ingested or it lands on exposed skin and remains there for a period of time.

Say What?
I know, crazy right? Depending on the type of radiation, the best and most reasonable thing you can do is wear a few extra layers of clothes, don't expose any skin, cover your mouth with a particulate/filter (if you have one) or a cloth and coffee filter combination(in a bind, and very effective). Here's the real kicker, in order to get clean from fallout: dust yourself off. Just don't wipe skin with hot water, it opens the pores and that is a bad thing.

Thats awesome. But what do you mean 'depending on the radiation'?
There are a few different types of radiation, and each type has different effects and limits. Not all of it will turn you into 'the Hills have Eyes'. Maybe your hills already have eyes...

Radiation:
o Neutron - This will fry your internal organs, skin, pets, cause crazy things to start happening at the genetic level (read: tumors, radiation poisoning/sickness). The most immediate danger is at the time of actual detonation, the neutron release is huge, and the particles pose the biggest threat as they pretty much go through anything they want, these will dissipate as they come into contact with various materials and buildings as they travel. They are genereally only released at the time of explosion.
o Gamma - These will cause moderate to severe burns on your skin, and can severely damage your internal organs. These too can travel through almost anything. Almost.
o Beta - Can cause moderate burns on the skin, and do some damage to internals. These are strong but can be blocked and have less range then Gamma.
o Alpha - Shortest range of them all (think inches to feet), only dangerous if ingested or absorbed through an open wound, blocked by almost anything.

There's hope? Oh snap! Tell me more!
Alpha radiation can be blocked by your skin, or prefferably, your clothes! Beta can be blocked by something so simple as 1 sheet of aluminum foil. Gamma requires about a foot or so of concrete or about an inch(ish) of lead or a metal of similar density. Neutron, well, let's be honest, it's pretty much a done deal. Try not to go streaking naked at the time of detonation, or limit your exposure is the best bet. I may be off on the thickness of the concrete and lead, but use it as a guideline or hit up your google bar.

How will I know what kind of Radiation is around me?
Unless you have military grade instruments or some off-the-shelf gear, hard to say. Radiation doesn't wear nametags. Little bastards...

I knew I was going to need that helmet! What else should I know?
Here's the FF's I promised:
o Time, Distance, Shielding are your friends. Check this out:
- From the time of detonation, the half life is already working in your favor. Half-Life is the period of time required for a decaying radioactive source to have 50% of it's original energy. At ground zero it might be a nightmare with a 10k year half-life, but 20 miles away the fallout with a weaker reading maybe already have reached it's first half-life making it 50% less dangerous. Yay!
- Everytime you double your distance from the radiation source, you cut the amount of radiation to 25% or one quarter of what it was. If the OP said it was 7-9 miles away from ground zero, if you go to 14-18 miles away, the radiation is going to be 25% of where your house was. At about 40 miles, 25% of that and so on.
- Concrete and heavy metals are now your friends! That lead paint you ate as a kid can actually help you now. So can being in the basement, surrounded by a concrete foundation that is probably a foot or more thick. Put up sandbags, the hood of that broken down car in your neighbors yard, scrap metal, aluminum foil, whatever. The more the better.
o Which way is the wind blowing? Yes, that's right. If you double the distance from your house but are heading in the same direction as the prevailing wind, the fallout is going to be following you like a bill collector. Nobody wants to drive a hundred miles and arrive to have it snowing radioactive ash. Look at Mt. St. Helens or Japan's reactor fiasco: the prevailing winds blew east from the Puget Sound, volcanic ash was recorded as far as Montana and the Dakotas. Hawaii and the northern Pacific Coast has seen an increase in radiation readings from Japan's situation. Go against the grain on this one. If for some reason we get rained on by nukes, things might be difficult.


Hopefully you have learned a bit of something and I hope this might help in some degree. There is some confusion at times at about what to expect.


read it all, amazing... -headplosion-

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Re: Fallout.

Post by MaconCJ7 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:59 pm

Cold and dead wrote:a 5 megaton blast will destroy buildings up to 10miles away, blast off clothing and skin up to 15-20 miles... you will have about 30seconds to take cover at 15-20miles. Fallout will reach 150-200miles depending on winds over a few days, the fallout will lose 99.9% potency in 24hours, that is not to say that the .1% can not kill you.

well that's what this Canadian survival stuff says anyway, not sure how old it is think its from the cold war era its all about if the US gets nuked
Interesting "information" we gave you Canuks to read. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the viewing area of the first test was about 10 miles from the detonation site.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by DarkAxel » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:08 pm

MaconCJ7 wrote:
Cold and dead wrote:a 5 megaton blast will destroy buildings up to 10miles away, blast off clothing and skin up to 15-20 miles... you will have about 30seconds to take cover at 15-20miles. Fallout will reach 150-200miles depending on winds over a few days, the fallout will lose 99.9% potency in 24hours, that is not to say that the .1% can not kill you.

well that's what this Canadian survival stuff says anyway, not sure how old it is think its from the cold war era its all about if the US gets nuked
Interesting "information" we gave you Canuks to read. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the viewing area of the first test was about 10 miles from the detonation site.
True, but the Trinity blast only had a yield of about 20 kt. A significant difference between a 20kt nuclear blast and a 5 mt blast. By several orders of magnitude.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by DarkAxel » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:20 pm

More info on ground-burst detonations.

When a nuke goes off at ground level, everything in the immediate vicinity get pulverized into near molecular-sized pieces, and when the underpressure begins, those particles get sucked up through the center of the fireball/mushroom cloud. That's where actual pieces of the bomb's primary and secondary get attached or fused to it, creating large amounts of dangerous fallout that becomes a plaything of the winds and weather.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by bae » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:38 pm

My boat, sitting at my dock, is fueled and ready to leave on 5 mins notice. I'd grab the bag-o-important stuff, the kid, the wife, the pets, get onto the boat, and head away from the fallout plume. I've got a ~1500 mile range or so, as it sits there right now.

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Re: Fallout.

Post by Cold and dead » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:58 pm

11 steps to survival, by the Canada Emergency Measures Organization... good read but do not know how accurate it is.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by angelofwar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:22 am

For those of us not at ground-zero, an Airburst would be the worst over-all. The EMP would cover a MUCH larger area, and fry the insides of just about anything electronic. Your modern car, your radio, computer, cell-phone...useless. Anything with a circuit board. If the threat of a nuclear war looms, go ahead an build yourself a small faraday cage (a shoe box wrapped in 1" strips of aluminum foil, space approx 1/2"-1" apart) for your senitive elcetronics. But, everything else would be dead (radio/TV stations/cell towers), so, it kind of makes sense to only protect the stuff than can be used as stand alone items (ham radio's, two way radios, etc.). As far as countries dropping nukes, Airburst is the preferred method for a reason. Powerplants, comm, vehicles = useless...makes it a lot easier on an invading army, if needed.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by angelofwar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:26 am

For those of us not at ground-zero, an Airburst would be the worst over-all. The EMP would cover a MUCH larger area, and fry the insides of just about anything electronic. Your modern car, your radio, computer, cell-phone...useless. Anything with a circuit board. If the threat of a nuclear war looms, go ahead an build yourself a small faraday cage (a shoe box wrapped in 1" strips of aluminum foil, space approx 1/2"-1" apart) for your senitive elcetronics. But, everything else would be dead (radio/TV stations/cell towers), so, it kind of makes sense to only protect the stuff than can be used as stand alone items (ham radio's, two way radios, etc.). As far as countries dropping nukes, Airburst is the preferred method for a reason. Powerplants, comm, vehicles = useless...makes it a lot easier on an invading army, if needed.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by Grainman » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:02 pm

DarkAxel wrote:
MaconCJ7 wrote:Interesting "information" we gave you Canuks to read. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the viewing area of the first test was about 10 miles from the detonation site.
True, but the Trinity blast only had a yield of about 20 kt. A significant difference between a 20kt nuclear blast and a 5 mt blast. By several orders of magnitude.
Since apparently a four times increase in yield only doubles blast radius it's about 16 times more powerful.
Cold and dead wrote:a 5 megaton blast will destroy buildings up to 10miles away, blast off clothing and skin up to 15-20 miles... you will have about 30seconds to take cover at 15-20miles. Fallout will reach 150-200miles depending on winds over a few days, the fallout will lose 99.9% potency in 24hours, that is not to say that the .1% can not kill you.

well that's what this Canadian survival stuff says anyway, not sure how old it is think its from the cold war era its all about if the US gets nuked
That sounds about right based on some other stuff I've read (though the fallout estimates isn't complete; some of the fallout will travel right around the world in the slipstream from what I've read; presumably what they mean is that it will only get to dangerous levels within a few hundred miles). One thing to note is that there's only a relatively small number of 5mt+ devices (most large nuclear warheads are in the 1-2mt range, and the majority of nuclear devices are "tactical nukes" under 500kt); according to what I've read there's less than 60 warheads in Russia over that size (they've got 58 R-36 missiles, some of them carry a single 18 or 25mt warhead, and others carry 10 smaller 300kt warheads instead) and about 20 4-5mt nukes in China. The USA doesn't seem to have anything over about 1.2mt, and all the smaller powers are even more restricted. Most of them only use Fission nukes rather than Fusion (Building a Fission device is a challenge in itself, but Fusion devices make them look "simple"), which have an upper limit of around 100kt.

It should also be noted that based on those numbers a 300kt device (a fairly typical size) will destroy buildings up to 2.5 miles away, and blast off clothing and skin up to 4-5 miles, but be survivable at that range if you are in cover.

I think there's a bit of a problem with people thinking that one nuke is the same as another. They read about what a 5mt or even a 50mt device could do and assume it applies to 300kt tactical nuke, or even a 1kt briefcase nuke. A 1kt briefcase nuke using the rule of 4:2 would be able to destroy buildings at 800feet (240 meters) and blast skin and clothes off at 1600feet (480 meters) unless you where in cover, which probably means having your typical concrete wall between you and the blast.

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Re: Fallout.

Post by angelofwar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:43 pm

The three key things to protection are Time (exposure), Distance (from the blast), and Shielding (from blast/radiation/fall-out). The best things for shielding are lead (as in lead bullets, etc.), earth, concrete, steel. You want things that will absorb the radiation (i.e. shield you from it). In a hilly area, dig yourself a quick hole just large enough for yourself with at least 3' of earth on top of you. An overpass, hill, an earthen rain ditch, etc.
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Re: Fallout.

Post by DarkAxel » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:04 pm

For those serious about fallout preps, check out this thread by Liff:

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... 1472&hilit

There's lots of good info in there by folks who know what they are talking about.

EDIT: Domain Name changed. No more Robotsquad.com :cry:
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Re: Fallout.

Post by lailr » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:29 pm

angelofwar wrote:For those of us not at ground-zero, an Airburst would be the worst over-all. The EMP would cover a MUCH larger area, and fry the insides of just about anything electronic. Your modern car, your radio, computer, cell-phone...useless. Anything with a circuit board. If the threat of a nuclear war looms, go ahead an build yourself a small faraday cage (a shoe box wrapped in 1" strips of aluminum foil, space approx 1/2"-1" apart) for your senitive elcetronics. But, everything else would be dead (radio/TV stations/cell towers), so, it kind of makes sense to only protect the stuff than can be used as stand alone items (ham radio's, two way radios, etc.). As far as countries dropping nukes, Airburst is the preferred method for a reason. Powerplants, comm, vehicles = useless...makes it a lot easier on an invading army, if needed.

I thought that I had read that EMP, would effect a vehicle post '93, but more severly the newer you got?

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