ineffableone wrote: Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Or say its a small local disaster, no food in grocery stores, no immediate LEO support, and small group of burglars. I can sit and cover them for days, or I can let them go ... trusting that as hungry as they are they won't come back .....
So you're going to zip tie them for however long? Are you going to have a 24 hour watch on them? If you don't, they will get out. You going to feed them, take them for potty breaks, etc? That would get messy fairly quickly.
Here is an idea, rather than restrain them, take their ID, and let them go. Telling them that you will be leaving a note with their ID for police to find if they try and return. If they don't return, then you will put their ID in a mailbox and it will be returned to them and cops will not be notified.
Sounds a lot better than shooting them or restraining them for days. I am guessing most desperate hungry people would take you up on this option.
So, if someone breaks into your house, injuries a family member, and the police aren't going to be around for awhile, that the ZS consensus course of action is to let them go?
Do we do that with all looters, even small groups of 3 to 5 that break into your house? Let them all go?
Well your senerio of someone stabbing a child would mean a dead body to deal with not someone to restrain. If there had been others in that group, I would imagine their dead friend has become a good deterrent to return.
But lets keep playing the what if game ok.
What if you place someone in zip ties, and you then let your guard down. They then break out of them as shown in the vidoes. Over power you and kill you, then go on to harm your family. Was it worth it to keep them restrained?
You zip tie them but they don't know how easy it is to get loose. You feed them, you deal with their wastes, you deal with their pleading and crying for release. They struggled a lot damaging their wrists. When finally police do arrive 3 weeks later your child and wife are malnourished from having to share your supplies with your prisoners. Your prisoners are released and rushed to the hospital a long with you. While in the hospital you are arrested for imprisonment and mistreatment of the home invaders. While you and your wife are waiting for trial, your charges change to manslaughter due to one of the men dying due to injuries caused by the restraints.
Your keeping these men restrained, and their families show up and demand you give them back. These families outnumber and out gun you.
We can what if again and again through so many things.
If they are hurting your family, shoot them. If they are trying to enter your home, most places allow for lethal force to protect yourself. If you have caught them and they are stopped, and have only tried to take your stuff yes just let them go. It beats the alternative of caring for them or their family coming for you, or being charged with a crime for holding them.
I would not call this ZS consensus, just my opinion and the opinion of some others who have answered this thread.
*edit to add, At this point having encountered looters, it should be time to consider bugging out. The safety of your home is now not what it was once. If one group has come looting, there will likely be more. This is not the first time I have said such a thing either. Note the last paragraph which I bolded, where I say once your home is discovered by looters, it might be time to consider bugging out. If it is just you and your family in a home, your not likely to be able to post an effective guard to stay safe. Even if those looters don't return you will likely end up having wave after wave of looters coming through testing your home. Are you ready for that?
From Hiding Valuables from Looters and Burglars
thread http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... 6&t=110890
ineffableone wrote:I figure there is basically 2 types of looters.
First if they have eaten recently they will likely be semi rational and only after the easy chance for looting of empty homes. Often in this senerio just letting them know your place is occupied can be enough for them to skip your place. Typically the roving gangs are included in this category though they tend to need more convincing than just knowing your there, they need to know your capable of defending your supplies. Though when in a group and not solo, they pose the problem of marking your place as a place to watch and return to later after they run out of easy choices. The gangs can also present the "if I can't have it no one will" attitude and try to burn you out or other methods of just destroying what you are trying to protect. Which is something to serious watch out for.
Second however the truly desperate who hasn't eaten in a long time, or has a sick child Spouse they need to find medicine for can be more determined if they know you are surviving and occupying a place. To them they see this meaning (often rightly) that you have supplies and if they could just get access to those they are saved. This type of looter can be the scariest and most determined. Actually discovering your occupying a place and still surviving can make them loose all rational thinking. Instead of moving on to easier targets they can fixate on getting what you will not give them. These can take considerable force to dissuade. Or just might be diffused by giving them something from your supplies. This is a gamble, but someone like this tossed a small pack with a bit food and basic supplies can suddenly be snapped back into a thinking person. They at this point might listen to reason enough to leave you alone for a bit.
This gets to the point where your place has been discovered. Your occupying and hording supplies and people know it. This is dangerous. At some point if things do not return to normal the person you repelled will return. It is just too much of a draw. Now is a time to start thinking about Bugging Out rather than Bugging In. This is when you also want to serious think about stashing your valuables. You will not be able to watch your property 24/7. You need to sleep. If you have a family, how many will be effective as defense how many a liability and need protecting. How likely is it that you need to leave for some supply yourself? Do you have to go out to get water? What about wood for fires? At this point stashing what you can't take with you in walls, and other hiding places could be a decent idea. In fact this is one of the biggest things I would say hiding your valuables would be the best bet. When you have to bug out, if you can stash some of your valuables they might actually be there if you have the chance to return. If you have already set up stash spots, it is easier to stash away what you can't take. This is where stuff like the video about hiding things in the wood work really could be useful.