Survival Caches

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Survival Caches

Post by azrael99 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:48 am

at least i know how to use a map and a compass and be able to follow a grid.

unfortunately i still can't make the magnetic declination calculation even though i learned it 3 times.

i even know how to estimate the denivelation profile.
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Survival Caches

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:26 am

azrael99 wrote:at least i know how to use a map and a compass and be able to follow a grid.

unfortunately i still can't make the magnetic declination calculation even though i learned it 3 times.

i even know how to estimate the denivelation profile.
Take some moleskin and attach it to the bottom of your compass, then write the local GM Angle conversions on their. Check it every 3-6MO to update it as need be, and to make sure the moleskin is sticking.

Also, run around chanting "Grid to magnetic subtract. Magnetic to grid add." Example:
Image

On your map, the GM angle will be shown like that. The line with the half-arrow on is the magnetic north, the vertical line marked "GN" is the grid north. Now you can see the root of the ditty. From right to left, if it goes Grid to Magnetic, you subtract the number, if it goes Magnetic to Grid you add the angle to the angle on your compass for any azimuth you use in the area.

Sorry if I broke it down past where you were having trouble, sometimes I get on a roll, and it seemed like good info to have here for posterity.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Survival Caches

Post by azrael99 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:32 am

thanks alots. i saved that into my files , and added it to my fav.
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
Akin
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 1191
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:54 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn Of The Dead, Shaun Of The Dead
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Survival Caches

Post by Akin » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:59 pm

Hammer31 wrote:2. Lack of GPS will be the death of many people if an extreme whammy happens (EMP, Government Collapse, War, etc...). The GPS system requires daily syncing with a ground station to ensure that the clocks are all in sync in the network. If this does not happen, drift begins and I do not know how long it will take for your GPS unit to become a paperweight. By all means use GPS to plot your caches but also know how to use a map and compass in case the GPS system becomes unavailable. Also, if a conflict happens, the government may decide to encrypt the GPS signal which will render the system unusable to anyone but US forces. Add to this batteries and that your unit is a piece of electronics, having a KISS method of Geo-locating is a must.
Good points that too many neglect.

However, I was under the impression that the GPS system would be viable for a few years at least, without any maintenance... anyone know how fragile it actually is?

And, since I don't see a true world-wide collapse ever occurring, I think if we lose GPS, it'll be because the powers that be decide to stop sharing. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that civilian use of GPS was limited to accuracy of a hundred yards or so... I forget when it was that they turned off the encryption for the really accurate use by civilian receivers, but it was noticeable...
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Captain Malcolm "Mal" Reynolds

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Lt. Colonel Jeff Cooper

User avatar
ODA 226
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1715
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:15 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Survival Caches

Post by ODA 226 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:07 am

Doc Torr wrote:
azrael99 wrote:at least i know how to use a map and a compass and be able to follow a grid.

unfortunately i still can't make the magnetic declination calculation even though i learned it 3 times.

i even know how to estimate the denivelation profile.
Take some moleskin and attach it to the bottom of your compass, then write the local GM Angle conversions on their. Check it every 3-6MO to update it as need be, and to make sure the moleskin is sticking.

Also, run around chanting "Grid to magnetic subtract. Magnetic to grid add." Example:
Image

On your map, the GM angle will be shown like that. The line with the half-arrow on is the magnetic north, the vertical line marked "GN" is the grid north. Now you can see the root of the ditty. From right to left, if it goes Grid to Magnetic, you subtract the number, if it goes Magnetic to Grid you add the angle to the angle on your compass for any azimuth you use in the area.

Sorry if I broke it down past where you were having trouble, sometimes I get on a roll, and it seemed like good info to have here for posterity.
^This+ LARS (Left Add Right Subtract) is even easier. (At least for knuckleheads like me!) :crazy:
Bitka Sve Rešava!
NEVER SACRIFICE SECURITY FOR SPEED!
B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

My INCH Bag
My Ultimate Altoid Tin
My Bug-In Solar Lights
My Wilderness Ditch Kit
Image

User avatar
KnightoftheRoc
* * * * *
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:14 am

Re: Survival Caches

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:25 pm

OTTB wrote:I may have missed it in the past 4 pages so forgive my ignorance but what is the point of having a cache on your land? I can't touch on the legality of burying things on public land but why on your own? Presumably your caching things you would/will need but why in the backyard and not say just in a trunk in the attic? If the house burns down or your flooded or some other disaster I'm not sure I could ever cache enough stuff to help me start over again. Unless it's some type of actual PAW and then I could see the point in having some sustinance and tools buried in the backyard if my house goes down.
With the cache on your own land, the chances of someone else getting to it, even by accident, are lessened considerably, plus you don't have the legal issues involved- leaving something on someone else's land for more than 30 days in most places constitutes your having abandoned it- which means it's finder's keepers. Plus, you can mark a cache on your own property- say, a bird bath directly over the buried container, without issues.
Heem wrote:This one looks very interesting - Used Heavy duty 58 gal. Plastic Barrel with screw top, a WATERPROOF food grade storage size 42" high x 22" dia for $80::

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=1009668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image
I've seen these used for storage indoors, and the covers are a PITA. Also, because of their design, these would be pretty prone to frost-heave, or could simply float right up out of the ground if it got very wet. frost heave can shove boulders the size and weight of cars up out of the ground, there's really very little you can do with a container not specifically designed for burial, that will make it immune to Nature's forces. Even burial to a depth that puts it below the frost line completely stands a chance of it coming back up.

Some things you can do to help mitigate these issues: bury below the frost line, in well drained areas, when possible. Orient vertically, as thin as possible (pipe, instead of barrel, for example). Include a large plate, affixed to the bottom of your cache- increased area means more force required to lift it, and all the dirt on it. If you can, try to get a good look at the plates used on the ground end of guy wires, used to support telephone poles, they aren't all that big, but they do put them WAY into the dirt, which brings up the next point: deeper is better. It helps avoid frost heave, and collapse from the dirt above it being flexible, should someone or something walk on it.

I don't believe a cache should be designed to allow you to "start over", with a duplicate of everything you own. This would be incredibly expensive to do for very short odds on needing it, and also require immense amounts of room. Think of the contents list as a bare bones thing- just enough to keep you alive till you figure out your next step. The details, of course would vary from person to person, but the basics should be what you're focused on, not the extra batteries for your duplicate I-Pad loaded with all your favorite games. If you want to pack electronics, feel free, but make sure they serve a purpose.

btw, a cheap, easy oxygen absorber you can use with many items: a handfull of old nuts, short bolts, or screws (tho I don't advise using any with points), so long as they are made of steel or iron. They will rust, absorbing, and locking in, the oxygen, leaving you only a layer of rusty powder to contend with.
silentpoet wrote: My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.

User avatar
Ten Eight
* * * * *
Posts: 1214
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:54 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Survival Caches

Post by Ten Eight » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:50 am

Good idea about using screws and bolts to absorb O2. I never thought of that.
"You don't understand! I coulda' had class. I coulda' been a contender. I coulda' been somebody instead of a bum, which is what I am."

User avatar
SnoMan
* *
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Survival Caches

Post by SnoMan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:41 pm

Well, when I started this thread I thought I'd do an article on caches, but I got such a wealth of information that I realized I need to do more research, so that's why it was delayed so long. But now, here's the first installment.

Original article with live links and video: http://www.survivalnewsonline.com/index ... king-list/

Preparing a Survival Cache
This is Part 1 of a series.

Read Part 2 — 7 Survival Cache Containers.

A survival cache (pronounced “cash”) is a supply of goods hidden away for emergencies. When preparing a survival cache, you need to consider the following factors:

What to store
What to store it in
Where and how to hide it
In this multi-part series of articles we’ll discuss these factors.

The purpose of this article is just to give you a starting point for packing your cache. There’s much more information in a thread I started at Zombie Hunters. By all means, learn more, but don’t wait until you know everything before you do something.

What’s the difference between a survival cache and a survival kit? In prepper parlance, a survival kit is a small container, often pocket-sized, with a very few items to help you in emergencies. Examples include a lighter, some twine, a signal mirror, a whistle, an adhesive bandage, and a blade of some sort. A survival cache, on the other hand, is a stash of food, water, tools, clothing, and other supplies that will assist your survival in a more comprehensive way. Think of the survival kit as something you carry with you, and the survival cache as something you go to and uncover in a Doomsday situation.

Top Ten Items to Stockpile for Emergencies

Video: What You Should Have in Your Survival Kit

What to Pack in Your Survival Cache
What you store depends on what you’re preparing for. If you’re preparing for a lack of food, you store food. If you’re preparing for a lack of water, you store water. If you’re preparing for cold weather, you store warm clothes and things to make a shelter and fire.

In this video, I demonstrate a survival cache that was stocked for cold weather and lack of food.


Suggested Survival Cache Packing List

While no single packing list will cover every possibility, a few basic items will cover most needs, and you can adjust the contents to suit your needs.
  • Gun and ammo. My go-to survival cache gun is a Ruger 1022. It’s light, and since I’ll have to carry it, that’s a primary consideration. I also packed about 300 rounds of .22 LR and a total of three 10-round magazines.
    Water filter bottle. My primary bugout location is in an area that has plenty of surface water, so a water stash is not my main concern here — but decontamination is. So my cache contains a Sport Berkey bottle with a built-in filter. Here’s a video demonstrating its use.
    Food. An active adult needs up to 5000 Calories (!!) per day just to maintain peak performance. My strategy is to overload with high-energy foods so I can keep everyone in good health to do all the things that have to be done on a daily basis just to remain alive in difficult environments. I recommend canned goods to be consumed on-location, and dry goods like hardtack for consumption on the trail. Don’t forget the can opener!
    Warm clothes. A hat, gloves, socks, and underwear are a must. Having said that, I keep a wool had and gloves with me at all times in my everyday carry bag, so I don’t have those items in the survival cache demonstrated here. However, I do have those items in another cache in case I get separated from my EDC bag for some reason.
    First aid kit. At a minimum, you need some wound-closure strips, a few pain-killers, a few anti-inflammatories, some disinfectant, a suture kit, and some bandages.
    Flashlight, batteries, candles, and fire-starter. Don’t store the batteries in the flashlight — if they go dead, they can corrode the contacts in your flashlight, rendering it useless. Store the flashlight at the top of the your stuff in case you uncover the cache in the dark. A few candles will really come in handy in your shelter. You’ll also need matches, a lighter, and I’ve also packed an esbit stove.
    Paracord. I always have some paracord on me, but I never run out of reasons to stash it. I have a hank of it in every cache except the ones dedicated to water.
    Swiss Army knife or other multitool. You should always have a knife anyway, but a Swiss Army knife has a can opener. If you have canned goods in a cache, you should have a can opener too. Here’s a video demonstrating one of the very best Swiss Army knives available — the Victorinox Rescue Tool.
A good strategy is to stash away a number of caches with various contents. For example, I tend to stock my water in a tube by itself in case the water containers burst — that way it doesn’t damage the contents.

In the next article we’ll discuss the types of containers you can use for a survival cache. Read Part 2 – 7 Survival Cache Containers.
______________
I'd rather harness a bull than prod an ass.

User avatar
SnoMan
* *
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Survival Caches

Post by SnoMan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:43 pm

And here's part 2.

Original article with live links: http://www.survivalnewsonline.com/index ... ontainers/

Survival Cache Containment

This is part 2 of the Survival Cache series. Part 1 covered the suggested packing list for a survival cache. Read Part 1.

A survival cache doesn’t necessarily have to be buried in the ground. You can stow a supply of emergency goods in a barn, shed, or cave, hidden under a tarp behind some tools or in a garbage can labeled “composted manure.” In urban environments, you might try an unlabeled crate in a warehouse, or rent a storage facility. The point is, you have a lot of flexibility.

Just be aware of what it takes to hide an item in plain sight. Ammo cans draw more attention to themselves than a trash can, for instance, so you’ll need to conceal them. We’ll cover concealment in Part 3 of this series.

The key to good storage is protection from the elements and pests — including the human kind. That’s why sealed containers are so popular. Here are a few examples:

7 Types of Survival Cache Containers
  • PVC pipe. An 8-inch pipe will hold an AR-15 with the handle still on it, but the six-inch variety is easier to find at building supply stores. That’s what I use. They’re easy to seal completely shut to protect from water infiltration.
    Used ammo cans. If the seal is still good, you can make these airtight, but long exposure to damp conditions may cause corrosion. This is a good option for storage in some sort of building, like the aforementioned shed, barn, or basement.
    Pelican cases. These are expensive, but they are a good option. They are watertight, airtight, and crush proof, and some models have a pressure-equalization valve.
    Food storage buckets. These buckets are what I use for long-term food storage. I haven’t tested them underground, but the lids do seal, so they should protect the contents from water infiltration.
    Plastic trash cans and storage bins. You can store your supplies in a trash can or storage bin labeled “chicken feed” or some such thing. Be sure to use the kind that is not translucent. Keep in mind they won’t be airtight, but they will work for certain types of supplies like canned goods, water containers, tools, and shelters.
    Vacuum bags. The FoodSaver is a popular brand, but there are many others. Important tip: check your vacuum-sealed goods after a week to make sure they sealed properly, then hide them.
    Old suitcase. Like the trash can, it won’t be airtight, but you can store it aboveground and cover it with a tarp, then camouflage it with branches, leaves, or grasses. Just be careful to do it so the wind won’t uncover it.
Feel free to share your survival cache storage ideas in the comments.
______________
I'd rather harness a bull than prod an ass.

User avatar
SnoMan
* *
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Survival Caches

Post by SnoMan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:46 pm

Part 3 is the longest article, and is scheduled for tomorrow.
______________
I'd rather harness a bull than prod an ass.

User avatar
CipherNameRaVeN
* * * * *
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:08 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Quarantine, 28 Days Later, 28 Weeks Later. The Road, Time of the Wolf (2004, French)
Location: South East PA

Re: Survival Caches

Post by CipherNameRaVeN » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:12 pm

SnoMan, good stuff!
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.


BOB & EDC | FAK
ImageImage

User avatar
SnoMan
* *
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Survival Caches

Post by SnoMan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:39 pm

Here it is; the latest installment of the Survival Cache articles. This one is a comprehensive analysis of hiding and recovering a cache, with input from SNO subscribers and the Zombie Squad.

Original article with live links. http://www.survivalnewsonline.com/index ... val-cache/

Strategic Survival Cache Placement and Recovery

OK, pause the mouse clicker thing for a moment. This is a long article, but I guarantee it’s well worth your time. Get a cup of coffee and settle in.

This article has been a long time in the making. Back in March 2012 I sent an email to SNO subscribers asking their input on survival caches, and boy, they responded. I encourage you to take the time to study the letters they sent (reproduced at the end of the article), for they contain a tremendous wealth of information. Also, check out the long Survival Caches thread at Zombie Hunters for much more info.

In fact, it is because of their responses that I delayed publishing this article. Now, I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck. I’m 45 years old, been married 19 years, have 5 kids, been rich and poor, I’ve been a lawyer, a real-estate investor, a movie producer, an author, I’ve travelled much of the Western world, I speak two languages fluently, two not so fluently, and I can find the airport in a few others. As a child I lived in a house with no plumbing or electricity and in an old-world city apartment. I’ve had the finest sole tartare and the meanest rice and beans for weeks at a time, after the salt pork ran out. In 2001 I bought a bottle of Rioja for $4, and it turned out to be the finest wine I might ever taste. I’ve been “surviving” all my life. Twice I’ve come within a gnat’s hair of death.

But when I read the responses I got about the survival caches, I realized I needed to do more research before sharing what I know. So that’s my explanation for the delay, and I’m sticking to it. No apologies. And let me take the opportunity to thank those who shared the info. You know who you are.

A survival cache is a hidden stock of goods you’ll need in an emergency. It’s pronounced “cash,” and it comes from the French word for “hide.” It’s a “hide.” So of course you hide your cache. In previous articles we’ve discussed what to put in your cache, and what to put it in. In this article we’ll focus on where and how to hide it, although we’ll duplicate some of the previous info for clarity.

The real meat of information you want is in the letters at the end of the article, but I’ll provide some structured points for your convenience.

Also keep in mind that none of the methods discussed here are foolproof. If the state sets its mind to find your stuff, it has tremendous resources at its disposal, including ground-search radar, economic leverage (seizing your property), and unsavory interrogation methods. But let’s be practical — if the state is directing that level of resources against you, you’ll probably be in custody anyway, so access to a cache will be a moot point. These methods will effectively protect your cache from accidental discovery and even reasonably systematic searches by scavengers and opportunists.

Feel free to print this article. (Hover over “share” above, and select “print” for a print friendly version, then select the page range you want to print).

Principles of Hiding a Cache

There are three principles you need to learn: Disguise, distraction, and concealment.

Disguise is where you make your cache look like something it isn’t. You can hide canned food, tools, and weapons in a bin labeled “chicken feed,” for example. Just place the stuff in the bottom of the bin and cover it with chicken feed.

I found an old truck carcass in the woods. I removed the fuel tank, carved out the top, filled it with goods, then secured the tank back in place with a concealed cover over the hole in the top. I also drilled a couple of drain holes in the tack. From the engine compartment I cut through the firewall to access the space under the dash and stuffed some more goods in there. My cache looks exactly like a truck.

An effective form of distraction is the use of decoys and....

Read the rest of the article. http://www.survivalnewsonline.com/index ... val-cache/
______________
I'd rather harness a bull than prod an ass.

User avatar
KnightoftheRoc
* * * * *
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:14 am

Re: Survival Caches

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:27 pm

Question for a water cache- if you live in a cold winter area, like NY State is, how would you store your water so it can survive the winter freezes? Burial below frost level isn't a good option, as the very thing you are protecting against will prevent you from reaching it (ever tried to dig through frozen dirt? It's like cement!)

I was thinking maybe using water balloons inside a PVC tube- the expansion of the water would be taken up by the balloons' ability to stretch, and they could be 'stacked' inside the tube. Maybe- haven't tried it.

As a plumber, I'm all too familiar with what water does when it freezes inside a pipe, and PVC simply isn't up to the task if you seal it, and leaving it open defeats the purpose. PEX tubing is a piping alternative that can survive freezes without rupturing, but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere in a diameter that would be useful for a storage vessel. Even a 100 foot roll of 1" ID (the largest size I've seen on the store shelves, tho I'm sure there are larger sizes made) would be a VERY inconvenient way to store water, let alone try to carry it away- the rolls are over 3 feet across.
silentpoet wrote: My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.

User avatar
SnoMan
* *
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Survival Caches

Post by SnoMan » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:Question for a water cache- if you live in a cold winter area, like NY State is, how would you store your water so it can survive the winter freezes? Burial below frost level isn't a good option, as the very thing you are protecting against will prevent you from reaching it (ever tried to dig through frozen dirt? It's like cement!)

I was thinking maybe using water balloons inside a PVC tube- the expansion of the water would be taken up by the balloons' ability to stretch, and they could be 'stacked' inside the tube. Maybe- haven't tried it.

As a plumber, I'm all too familiar with what water does when it freezes inside a pipe, and PVC simply isn't up to the task if you seal it, and leaving it open defeats the purpose. PEX tubing is a piping alternative that can survive freezes without rupturing, but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere in a diameter that would be useful for a storage vessel. Even a 100 foot roll of 1" ID (the largest size I've seen on the store shelves, tho I'm sure there are larger sizes made) would be a VERY inconvenient way to store water, let alone try to carry it away- the rolls are over 3 feet across.
Maybe try this: fill plastic water bottles about 80% full, then stick them in the freezer. When they're frozen, put them in the cache and then stash it somewhere aboveground, where you won't have to dig through frozen ground to find them. What I don't know is how many freeze/thaw cycles it'll take before leaking out of the plastic bottles. But even then, it'll just stay inside your tube, right? It'd be an interesting experiment -- good one for the blog.
______________
I'd rather harness a bull than prod an ass.

User avatar
KnightoftheRoc
* * * * *
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:14 am

Re: Survival Caches

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:16 am

SnoMan wrote:
KnightoftheRoc wrote:Question for a water cache- if you live in a cold winter area, like NY State is, how would you store your water so it can survive the winter freezes? Burial below frost level isn't a good option, as the very thing you are protecting against will prevent you from reaching it (ever tried to dig through frozen dirt? It's like cement!)

I was thinking maybe using water balloons inside a PVC tube- the expansion of the water would be taken up by the balloons' ability to stretch, and they could be 'stacked' inside the tube. Maybe- haven't tried it.

As a plumber, I'm all too familiar with what water does when it freezes inside a pipe, and PVC simply isn't up to the task if you seal it, and leaving it open defeats the purpose. PEX tubing is a piping alternative that can survive freezes without rupturing, but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere in a diameter that would be useful for a storage vessel. Even a 100 foot roll of 1" ID (the largest size I've seen on the store shelves, tho I'm sure there are larger sizes made) would be a VERY inconvenient way to store water, let alone try to carry it away- the rolls are over 3 feet across.
Maybe try this: fill plastic water bottles about 80% full, then stick them in the freezer. When they're frozen, put them in the cache and then stash it somewhere aboveground, where you won't have to dig through frozen ground to find them. What I don't know is how many freeze/thaw cycles it'll take before leaking out of the plastic bottles. But even then, it'll just stay inside your tube, right? It'd be an interesting experiment -- good one for the blog.
I do that now for water storage at the house, using the 2l bottles. They only go into the freezer when/if I have the room and expect bad enough weather to possibly knock out the power, to increase the thermal mass inside the freezer. I initially freeze them after filling, to ensure I haven't over-filled, so any excess water can be scraped off as ice before capping it, allowing them to thaw, and then a chlorine treatment before sealing and storing. I'm not entirely confident enough in them to seal them up in a tube, especially with anything else I want to keep dry. But, I figured, with dependable water being such a high priority, it was worth discussion. Like you, I have abundant natural sources in my area, so this isn't so much an issue for me, personally, but not everyone is so lucky.
silentpoet wrote: My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.

User avatar
ODA 226
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1715
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:15 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Survival Caches

Post by ODA 226 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:22 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
SnoMan wrote:
KnightoftheRoc wrote:Question for a water cache- if you live in a cold winter area, like NY State is, how would you store your water so it can survive the winter freezes? Burial below frost level isn't a good option, as the very thing you are protecting against will prevent you from reaching it (ever tried to dig through frozen dirt? It's like cement!)

I was thinking maybe using water balloons inside a PVC tube- the expansion of the water would be taken up by the balloons' ability to stretch, and they could be 'stacked' inside the tube. Maybe- haven't tried it.

As a plumber, I'm all too familiar with what water does when it freezes inside a pipe, and PVC simply isn't up to the task if you seal it, and leaving it open defeats the purpose. PEX tubing is a piping alternative that can survive freezes without rupturing, but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere in a diameter that would be useful for a storage vessel. Even a 100 foot roll of 1" ID (the largest size I've seen on the store shelves, tho I'm sure there are larger sizes made) would be a VERY inconvenient way to store water, let alone try to carry it away- the rolls are over 3 feet across.
Maybe try this: fill plastic water bottles about 80% full, then stick them in the freezer. When they're frozen, put them in the cache and then stash it somewhere aboveground, where you won't have to dig through frozen ground to find them. What I don't know is how many freeze/thaw cycles it'll take before leaking out of the plastic bottles. But even then, it'll just stay inside your tube, right? It'd be an interesting experiment -- good one for the blog.
I do that now for water storage at the house, using the 2l bottles. They only go into the freezer when/if I have the room and expect bad enough weather to possibly knock out the power, to increase the thermal mass inside the freezer. I initially freeze them after filling, to ensure I haven't over-filled, so any excess water can be scraped off as ice before capping it, allowing them to thaw, and then a chlorine treatment before sealing and storing. I'm not entirely confident enough in them to seal them up in a tube, especially with anything else I want to keep dry. But, I figured, with dependable water being such a high priority, it was worth discussion. Like you, I have abundant natural sources in my area, so this isn't so much an issue for me, personally, but not everyone is so lucky.
Unless you live in the desert, I would just cache a water purification system, water purification tabs and a means to boil water and leave it at that.
Bitka Sve Rešava!
NEVER SACRIFICE SECURITY FOR SPEED!
B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

My INCH Bag
My Ultimate Altoid Tin
My Bug-In Solar Lights
My Wilderness Ditch Kit
Image

User avatar
KnightoftheRoc
* * * * *
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:14 am

Re: Survival Caches

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:02 am

ODA 226 wrote:Unless you live in the desert, I would just cache a water purification system, water purification tabs and a means to boil water and leave it at that.
If I were doing a cache, this is exactly how I'd go about it, since water here is never more than a walk downhill, at worst. Of course, that usually also means carrying that water back UP the hill...
Since so much of my area is also wooded to some extent, even in town, I'm not so sure about even caching fuel, aside from maybe some fuel tabs to get wet wood started with. I feel that the less you have to store away in a cache, the better.

When I was a younger lad, so long ago the internet wasn't around yet :shock: a friend and I were looking into setting up a cache as a "just in case" situation. A downside I think folks ought to consider is urban sprawl, and commercial development. Three separate times and locations, we had established a good spot and started making some improvements to it, and the next thing we knew, we'd find a spiffy new, brightly colored sign nearby saying "Future home of...", and we'd have to start over. While we were not considering the legal aspects of it, and were technically trespassing, we weren't aware we were breaking the law, and in an admittedly self-serving effort, respecting the property and not messing it up- no sense in drawing attention to our project.

To combat the effects of both urban sprawl and possible unwanted notice, it's best to go back to a point made early on in the thread, several times- own the land you cache on, or be prepared for the consequences. Considering the amount of money that can be tied up in preps and gear, the loss of a found cache might be worse that the fines and legal costs a trespassing charge would bring. So, while caching on public land might be legal, it still doesn't make it particularly smarter than caching in your own back yard, so to speak.
silentpoet wrote: My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.

User avatar
Heem
*
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:02 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: "Shock Waves" - Underwater undead Nazis gone bad, cheesy & campy, early 1970s with Peter Cushing. Check it out on You Tube, an unknown classic!
Location: Central PA

Re: Survival Caches

Post by Heem » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:24 pm

I'm glad to see this thread is still getting posts. Thanks snowman for the recent updates - I'll be reading them later.

There are 2 things I want to comment on from some of the last posts.

1) If you have a creek or river nearby then invest in a good portable water filtration system to remove microorganisms and chemicals, and put it in your cache.

2) For cooking and heating water at your cache, forget standard fuel based systems. The odds are you won't have enough fuel to last very long. Instead, build or buy a small rocket stove and learn how to cook different fast meals on it. The fuel used is finger size tree limbs which are found just about everywhere. This stove burns very hot and with no smoke after it gets going. There are a bunch of reviews of these stoves, you'll want to see these 2 excellent reviews first::

Watch this guy go from nothing to cooked corn tortillas made from scratch in under 8 minutes, and guess where he's doing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSwZm1K1 ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watch this guy start a fire by rubbing 2 fire sticks, and start it in 20 seconds! This is a portable camp wood stove you can put in your pocket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... wIWj2i2d9w#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;!

I'm liking that pocket Emberlit for the light weight and portability - here is their website:: http://www.emberlit.com/products/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Crime is contagious....if the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law."
- U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

amayumi
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:07 pm

Re: Survival Caches

Post by amayumi » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:37 pm

dear sirs

i was looking for cache ideas to store my mess kit near my fishing spot and this topic help me a lot, so, i would like to share some ideas.

all internet pages about this theme state that water will always come into the cache

and the cache models that prevents water penetration involve the use of complicated door systems, adhesives, teflon tapes, etc.

plus, there is also the problem of rodents attracted by food smell.
this rodents can find your cache, dig into it and let a hollow open to the water penetration.


thinking about it all, i come to an idea to my problem that could help all.

heres the deal:

Image

all you can need to do is to protect the pressure valve with something like an rubber cap, to avoid dirt coming into it.

now you have a cache that is rodent proof, water proof, can be regulated trough screw to be more waterproof if you want (just add more pressure on screw)
you can use original seals, rubber or silicon, depending on model, and switch the seal when you open it to inspect the food shelflife.
you also have a large pan where you can store or boil water for your family, to drink, and this pan can boil faster, using less wood.

if you choose a stainless model, you can weld some mods, makint it stronger or different maybe.

you can even saw the pan bottom and weld the up portion, including latch, on to a bigger metal tube, making a long vertical cache with a improved waterproof access.
all you need is some inox salvaged tube and some welding service.
and since this kind of pan is avaiable from 2 hand, your cache could be very cheap.

and if you need a cheap small cache, all you need is a domestic model, like this.
Image

that can be modded also, being welded to a longer tube.

well, i hope you like this suggestion.

thanks for your help.

hawk55732
* *
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:24 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead and City of the Dead

Re: Survival Caches

Post by hawk55732 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:27 pm

Akin wrote:
Hammer31 wrote:2. Lack of GPS will be the death of many people if an extreme whammy happens (EMP, Government Collapse, War, etc...). The GPS system requires daily syncing with a ground station to ensure that the clocks are all in sync in the network. If this does not happen, drift begins and I do not know how long it will take for your GPS unit to become a paperweight. By all means use GPS to plot your caches but also know how to use a map and compass in case the GPS system becomes unavailable. Also, if a conflict happens, the government may decide to encrypt the GPS signal which will render the system unusable to anyone but US forces. Add to this batteries and that your unit is a piece of electronics, having a KISS method of Geo-locating is a must.
Good points that too many neglect.

However, I was under the impression that the GPS system would be viable for a few years at least, without any maintenance... anyone know how fragile it actually is?

And, since I don't see a true world-wide collapse ever occurring, I think if we lose GPS, it'll be because the powers that be decide to stop sharing. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that civilian use of GPS was limited to accuracy of a hundred yards or so... I forget when it was that they turned off the encryption for the really accurate use by civilian receivers, but it was noticeable...
This is an older post I know but I noticed that no one answered. The US GPS system is constantly corrected by the Airforce. If left to there own devices, they would be severly off within a few months.

User avatar
procyon
* * * * *
Posts: 1101
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 5:56 am
Location: Iowa, USA

Re: Survival Caches

Post by procyon » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:16 pm

On the subject of caching water.
If you are going to go digging, why not just drop a hole for a well.
You can either leave the water line to the surface empty so that it doesn't freeze (which means you will likely get to flush a bunch of water through the line when you need it to get rid of the bit of rust that accumulates) during the winter, or you can 'hide' the well in an old root cellar with a cover so that it stays around 40-50 F and doesn't freeze during the winter. I have several neighbors with 'root cellar' well pumps that are in the floor covered by a wood 'door' so that they don't freeze.
And you won't have to worry about it running out, or hauling it uphill, or purifying it (hopefully, but if you leave the line dry it may be a good idea to boil it anyway...).

Just a thought.
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...

User avatar
KnightoftheRoc
* * * * *
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:14 am

Re: Survival Caches

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:35 pm

procyon wrote:On the subject of caching water.
If you are going to go digging, why not just drop a hole for a well.
You can either leave the water line to the surface empty so that it doesn't freeze (which means you will likely get to flush a bunch of water through the line when you need it to get rid of the bit of rust that accumulates) during the winter, or you can 'hide' the well in an old root cellar with a cover so that it stays around 40-50 F and doesn't freeze during the winter. I have several neighbors with 'root cellar' well pumps that are in the floor covered by a wood 'door' so that they don't freeze.
And you won't have to worry about it running out, or hauling it uphill, or purifying it (hopefully, but if you leave the line dry it may be a good idea to boil it anyway...).

Just a thought.
And a good one, provided that boring a well is feasible in that location. Many locations make simply digging by hand downright impossible.
silentpoet wrote: My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.

Post Reply

Return to “Contingency Planning & Preparation”