Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by SickMaker » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:30 am

We have, in recent history, seen the collapse of national governments, collapse of societies, and the near total collapse of nations. In our nation’s history (USA), we have experienced great turmoil in the form of a revolution, civil war, and numerous natural disasters. In all that we have experienced and endured, in every situation that we have been thrust into, what would be the choice to make? Stay or go, barricade or hump it to neutral territory?

The greatest fear that a populace faces is martial law. As we experienced during Hurricane Katrina, our rights were systematically stripped and our friends and neighbors abused. We have bred a society that places more emphasis on compliance and assimilation that many people feel it better to give in and surrender unto the powers that be the only thing that cannot be garnered, their freedom.

I can speak from my experience during Katrina that we had no protection because those who had a fiduciary duty to protect us chose rather to protect themselves and to execute a kangaroo court on the streets of New Orleans: judge, jury, and executioner in less than 30 seconds. We cannot say for sure what events transpired to lead a police officer to take another’s life, however we can say that many abuses did take place in the days and weeks after Hurricane Katrina.

Be it known that this thread is not about bashing police or organized governments, or reliving a great disaster, so please read on and contribute.

What would you do today, if we experienced a situation similar to that in Egypt and Tunisia, Indonesia and New Orleans? What would be your plan if a massive earthquake or volcano hurled our nation into a new dark age when there is no one to turn to but yourself and your family? I say what are you more afraid of, the authorities who will most certainly corral you into some “shelter” after stripping you of all ability to support yourself. Keep in mind, if you were to visit a disaster shelter or camp, your survival tools will be confiscated and most likely never returned.

You will lose your firearm, knife, machete, compass and maps, and all of your food stuffs. And what if they replace your clothes with a standard outfit that will be issued to all shelter residents? Your ability to effectively survive alone has been taken away and replaced with dependence on the authority.

Or you can stay at your home. But as we saw in New Orleans, the police will come to your home, they will break down the door under the color of law and freedom, and they will mark you. You will lose your survival gear in this manner, but also they will make you a target to all those miscreants who pass under the radar because they choose not to follow the law and buy legal firearms, they do not have legal residences and they are always looking for a victim to take from.

Here is my plan, and I pray that I will never have to put it into action:

I am blessed and fortunate enough to live many miles from any major city as well as any major roadway. My family has farmed our land for several generations, and as being a southern farmer we own and keep trained many horses, fresh vegetables and we have our own well and septic tank. We can definitely bug in, but what happens when other people start to notice our area? What will happen when the authorities make a search and find us well and healthy?

My instinct is to wait for the dust to settle. Let the confusion of the disaster die down, this way most of the recovery efforts will be concentrated toward the city center and more heavily populated areas. This should only take a few days; in this time I will map out my route, gather my supplies, and take my family to our BOL.

My plan is simple: keep out of sight, travel light and well armed, and make use of my surroundings for defilade and sustenance. We will stay off of paved roads as these will be the most likely to be patrolled. Our horses will serve as transportation, but sometimes may prove to be a hindrance as they are large and can make noise when walking. This is our best alternative to make it across the USA in a timely manner.

I will post updates to my course of action and pictures in due time as I wish to get this discussion started. Please participate with meaningful responses and let’s try to stay away from the Alex Jones disinformation and conspiracy theories.
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by ODA 226 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:28 pm

Two questions: Where do you intend on going? Have you made specific plans?
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by SickMaker » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:35 pm

yes, the specifics are coming, as I am at my office it is hard for me to post everything at once. Later today I will give some more of the contingency. I really wanted to get the discussion opend soon though.

Thanks for the interest.
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by TacAir » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:07 pm

(rubs head, puzzled look)

Are you going to head to Mexico? Canada? Shangri-la?
Your post makes no sense to me... do folks have plans to unass an unlivable AO? I suspect many do.

But what you have laid out - from volcanoes to massive civil unrest/revolution is a *koff* *koff* bit broad *koff*.

You seem to have indicated a very deep seated fear that the police or miscreants (that's a good word choice BTW) will come to kick in your door and steal your stuff - if something as bad as you have postulated occurs, the cops will be waiting in line....

I would offer this - what is in your head cannot be robbed. Your skills, knowledge and call it pluck - are more the determinate in your ability to survive than all the gear you could carry... one need only to look at the poorer parts of this world to see that everyday.

I see more and more people every day expresing this fear of an apocalyptic event - supervolcanos; meteor strikes; mass incivility, rudness even; cats and dogs living together.

I cannot speak for others, I worry more about a house fire or an aircraft hitting my home (3 in the neighborhood over the last 10 years) than of a supervolcano or such. I figure if I have the fire covered, most everything lese is covered as well.

You can only do so much preping, have a place or two you consider 'safe' and them along with the rest of us - hope for the best.....
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by Finch » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:17 pm

i'm a little confused about the question but i think this is "WWYD if whats happening in cario happened here"

I am not enitrely sold that it could happen here. not that unrest is imposable but there are so many guns in the US it seems unlikely to me that mobs will be throwing rocks at each other

I live far enough away from Philly or any city of any significance that the worse case would be looters

so me and me guns are staying
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by raptor » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:52 pm

SickMaker wrote:
What would you do today, if we experienced a situation similar to that in Egypt and Tunisia, Indonesia and New Orleans? What would be your plan if a massive earthquake or volcano hurled our nation into a new dark age when there is no one to turn to but yourself and your family? I say what are you more afraid of, the authorities who will most certainly corral you into some “shelter” after stripping you of all ability to support yourself. Keep in mind, if you were to visit a disaster shelter or camp, your survival tools will be confiscated and most likely never returned.

These situations are radically different in terms of response and needs. A regional natural disaster (Katrina, tidal wave) has a very different response profile than say civil unrest (Egypt) or a potentially EOTWAWKI like the Yellowstone volcano erupting.



IMO a regional disaster like Katrina is best dealt with by bugging out to where society is unaffected. After Katrina, Atlanta and Birmingham were not affected. Hence setting up shop there made sense. That is a bug out situation.

Civil unrest (Egypt) is a time to stay put and hunker down assuming the riots are not taking place in your neighborhood and a direct threat to you. You are likely to be safer bugged in and out of sight than on the move unless you are a target of the unrest (due for instance to politics race, religion, ethic origin, or other directly threatening reason). If you are such a target then you need you needed to be someplace else before the SHTF.

An EOTWAWKI event...well IMO all bets are off and a person's survival is at best a coin flip (i.e. unless you are lucky and some distance away from the event) and your probability of survival will depend upon random chance.

Finally I would note that bugging out as a heavily armed group is likely to attract significant negative attention. Bugging out is best done in a low key, low profile manner. IMO if you chose to bug out go early.


Here are some threads to help you with this discussion:

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... =6&t=25674" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... =6&t=60213" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... =6&t=44884" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by raptor on Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by J.C. » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:54 pm

If you can afford to wait "for the dust to settle" why would you ever leave? Bugging out only makes sense if there is a threat to you in your current home and you expect conditions to be better in your BOL. If the authority issues an evacuation order then there are at least two threats to you in your current home: the precipitous cause and the authority who may force your evacuation. An evacuation is almost certainly also going to invite looters. In that case I would most likely bug out, I would not wait and hope the authority and looters overlook me. The most likely reason to stay in such a circumstance is if you have nowhere to go, or you don't expect to be able to travel.
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by SickMaker » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:07 pm

TacAir wrote:But what you have laid out - from volcanoes to massive civil unrest/revolution is a *koff* *koff* bit broad *koff*.
I would not say it is a deep seated fear, perhaps you missed the sentence stating this is not a cop bashing thread, or the sentence about avoiding conspiracy theories. However, I do understand how you may allude to that beliefe.

I do not think a person can truly understand this point of view unless they have expereinced something to this effect. I witnessed many things that I mentioned during Hurricane Katrina, so please do not infer more than what the material says.
It's sort of like those logical reasoning tests. Do not add more information than that which is provided.

Now, as for me being involved in a situation of martial law, I can tell you that you can and should fear more than just legitimate thieves.

As to other responses, I am not sure if I made clear my intentions, or the perceived threat. As I stated to stay off paved roads and use the defilade (surroundings to provide cover, fortification, protection from weapons and sight) this is how one armed group stays off the radar.

If we have some form of natural disaster, coupled with civil unrest as we have seen in LA, NYC, or Cleveland (Albeit due to political and racail motives) we may not have the luxury to sit it out.

My intentions with this are a worst case scenario: I reckon this was the wrong board to put the topic in, however I feel strongly about the subject and I think if it covers topics discussed previously then it's a great review. But to say that the United States could not see civil unrest is a stretch from the truth. We may not have state run media, however we do have a media that does not show all aspects of current events. When Cairo was revolting, I saw more about Lady GaGa than I did on the streets of Cairo.

I understand the purpose of being "gray", but that is not at all what my plan is. The plan is to BO, under cover of natural surroundings. I will post more of an update later today.
I appreciate the critique, but I think the point of the thread has been missed.
Last edited by SickMaker on Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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UPDATE

Post by SickMaker » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:39 pm

As I have stated previously, using a horse as transportation is the most logical and efficient for my plan. We will head east to the Blue Ridge Mountains of Tennessee. This is where we will make our home with many family members already living in the impenetrable forest slopes. There is an abundance of mountain water that pours out of the rock so fresh water supply is adequate. Our trapping skills acquired on the farm (from trapping wild pigs to rabbits) will become particularly useful as we will wish to use ammunition or make noise as little as possible.
I cannot give an exact detail of our trail as I do not wish to compromise our contingency, but I will post another update soon to give some idea of the route will shall take.
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by Trout_Of_Death » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:40 pm

Have a family member go to camp and get supplies to bring home, but i'm not going to a concentration camp. The super dome looked worse than staying in a flooded home (perspective the media showed). As far as stripping me of my gear, no one is taking my stuff, it is my lifeline, to take my survival equipment is attempted murder in a survival situadion, defense will be taken accordingly. If the police are going to bust down my door, there better be a knock and notice first or else I will assume its a home invasion, if they knock I will answer and ask for a warrant, and it better have my address listed on the warrant to make it valid.

As far as bugging out, I't would depend on what is going on. Plan A is to get in the truck, load it up and drive. Each family member has their job and their pack is set up accordingly. My job is security/communications/macgyver in our bug out plan. Depending on the amount of civil unrest will depend if I conceal or if I blatantly carry gear with "^*%( Off" written across my forehead. If im open carrying I'm riding in the back of the truck as to be most efficient at being able to move and take aim as necessary.

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by SickMaker » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:09 pm

Trout_Of_Death wrote: Each family member has their job and their pack is set up accordingly. My job is security/communications/macgyver in our bug out plan.
I like the seperation of duties. I too have given this some thought. My job is the procurement and maintenance of gear (Weapons, Tools, Lighting, etc...) My oldest brother is responsible for accommodations as in camp site, sleep gear, and fire making. Other members too have been deligated a task.
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by Trout_Of_Death » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:43 pm

SickMaker wrote:
Trout_Of_Death wrote: Each family member has their job and their pack is set up accordingly. My job is security/communications/macgyver in our bug out plan.
I like the seperation of duties. I too have given this some thought. My job is the procurement and maintenance of gear (Weapons, Tools, Lighting, etc...) My oldest brother is responsible for accommodations as in camp site, sleep gear, and fire making. Other members too have been deligated a task.
Each of us carry survival stuff on a personal level in case we get separated, but for long term someone has a bulk of it. That should be a given, but we forget minor details sometimes.

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by bcvojak » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:05 pm

SickMaker wrote:What would be your plan if a massive earthquake or volcano hurled our nation into a new dark age when there is no one to turn to but yourself and your family? . . . . . the police will come to your home, they will break down the door under the color of law and freedom, and they will mark you.
Earthquake or whatever, you just play the game and keep a low profile. Police won't come to your door unless there is a reason. (If they don't know you have stuff, they won't come and take it). Don't stand out in your front yard with an AK-47. Don't shoot every stranger who walks down your block. Don't sit out on your front porch munching on MREs. Grey Man philosophy.

>> hurled our nation into a new dark age when there is no one to turn to but yourself and your family?

Different story. No existing government (nation wide not just local) = no authority for cops.
All cops are now EX-cops.
EX-Cops demanding stuff = thugs demanding stuff.

You still have to act morally, but you have a right to defend your stuff from those who are acting WITHOUT ANY AUTHORITY!

Obviously you need to take local circumstances into the decision making process.

Lets say that Yellowstone blows. In your county, the police chief declares himself the new "County Boss" and orders the police to seize all food, water, guns and ammo they can find and to bring it to him for "re-distribution". Is this a legal government? Do the cops have any real authority other than what is provided by their numbers, guns and logistics? I would hope that most cops would tell the new "Boss Hog" to go pound sand and maybe even arrest him.

Conversely the police chief states that he is asking for leaders from the business and academic communities to help set up an emergency government; coordinate aid and assistance; and the police will provide security but will behave with-in the confines of the "law" (even if "the law" no longer exists). Is this a legal government? Would the cops have any real authority?
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by Gurthy » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:03 pm

TacAir wrote: I cannot speak for others, I worry more about a house fire or an aircraft hitting my home (3 in the neighborhood over the last 10 years) than of a supervolcano or such.
Holy shit!! :shock: Time to move man!

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by TacAir » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:48 pm

Gurthy wrote:
TacAir wrote: I cannot speak for others, I worry more about a house fire or an aircraft hitting my home (3 in the neighborhood over the last 10 years) than of a supervolcano or such.
Holy shit!! :shock: Time to move man!
I live in Anchorage Ak - a very airplane busy kind of town - the run in to the local bug smasher aerodrome and the local air base (nearly) run over the top of my house. The flyout for The Ted - when not out over the Inlet, also comes over the house. About the only guys that don't fly over the house are the Army aviation, only because thier route is about 3 blocks away.
One of the local hospitals also handles AirEvac - and is down the street.......

I get the world best air show every day. Just that some days, the show is a little too close.

My son lives a block from the seaplane base & less than a mile from The Ted.
Not such a good airshow.

I worry about the A/C, sometimes it's just the parts...

Federal safety officials said today that an engine fell off a Boeing 747 cargo jet over Anchorage in March because of unusually strong turbulence and an undetected two-inch crack in the pylon connecting the engine to the wing.

The jet, a Japan Airlines flight to Chicago, returned safely to the Anchorage airport, and there were no injuries aboard the aircraft or where the engine landed between an apartment building and a shopping mall in Anchorage. Damage to the plane was put at $12 million.

Fun, huh?
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Re: UPDATE

Post by maldon007 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:11 pm

SickMaker wrote: ...the impenetrable forest slopes.
Is this area specifically "impenetrable" for some reason? Seems like if you can get there, others can... no? Just thinking, you are not the first who has had the "bug out to the mountains & live off the land" idea/plan... This idea is probably second, right behind the walmart/mall plan. So you may have lots of company... And unless the land you are on (all of it) is owned by you or others who are part of your group, "defending" it would be tough to justify.

One other thought, trapping/hunting will go down hill quickly, once an area is taxed to support a large number of hungry folks... Maybe make sure some of your team is versed in animal husbandry, farming, etc.

Anyway, just try to think it out long term, since your plan seems fairly long term. Btw, not trying to shoot down your ideas, at all... Your plan is better than mine so far... No reason not to try an improve though :D
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by Stercutus » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:33 am

Please participate with meaningful responses and let’s try to stay away from the Alex Jones disinformation and conspiracy theories.
The only Alex Jones I know got racked in the ding-ding in the fifth grade during recess and they had to send him home from school. He didn't come back for two days.
We have, in recent history, seen the collapse of national governments, collapse of societies, and the near total collapse of nations. In our nation’s history (USA), we have experienced great turmoil in the form of a revolution, civil war, and numerous natural disasters. In all that we have experienced and endured, in every situation that we have been thrust into, what would be the choice to make? Stay or go, barricade or hump it to neutral territory?
As Raptor pointed out these are all different things with different strategies.
The greatest fear that a populace faces is martial law.
We call this projecting. Strange how in Egypt everyone protested until they got marshal law and then they went home? That's a real head scratcher. Some people like and trust authority and order and prefer it over chaos and being victimized randomly. Different strokes and all.
As we experienced during Hurricane Katrina, our rights were systematically stripped and our friends and neighbors abused. We have bred a society that places more emphasis on compliance and assimilation that many people feel it better to give in and surrender unto the powers that be the only thing that cannot be garnered, their freedom.
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I guess. I can't see how that is any different than the last 30,000 years though.
I can speak from my experience during Katrina... blah, blah blah

Be it known that this thread is not about bashing police or organized governments, or reliving a great disaster, so please read on and contribute.
At least we got that straight.
What would you do today, if we experienced a situation similar to that in Egypt and Tunisia, Indonesia and New Orleans? What would be your plan if a massive earthquake or volcano hurled our nation into a new dark age when there is no one to turn to but yourself and your family? I say what are you more afraid of, the authorities who will most certainly corral you into some “shelter” after stripping you of all ability to support yourself.
I didn't see that happen in Egypt or Tunisia. Maybe you could reference me something up that shows the authority corralling them into a "shelter". Standing by....
Keep in mind, if you were to visit a disaster shelter or camp, your survival tools will be confiscated and most likely never returned.
Just for visiting?
You will lose your firearm, knife, machete, compass and maps, and all of your food stuffs. And what if they replace your clothes with a standard outfit that will be issued to all shelter residents?
There are going to take away my clothes and give me new ones? You are dreaming.
Or you can stay at your home. But as we saw in New Orleans, the police will come to your home, they will break down the door under the color of law and freedom, and they will mark you.
They might try, like they did six years ago. Till they got slapped around and made to stop. And the chief of police fired and people eventually prosecuted and laws changed and... well get you the point.
Here is my plan, and I pray that I will never have to put it into action:
We come to it at last.
I am blessed and fortunate enough to live many miles from any major city as well as any major roadway. My family has farmed our land for several generations, and as being a southern farmer we own and keep trained many horses, fresh vegetables and we have our own well and septic tank. We can definitely bug in, but what happens when other people start to notice our area? What will happen when the authorities make a search and find us well and healthy?
Hmm. If you lives miles from any major city or roadway who is gonna notice you? Why would the "authorities" come searching for you? I must be missing something here.
My instinct is to wait for the dust to settle. Let the confusion of the disaster die down, this way most of the recovery efforts will be concentrated toward the city center and more heavily populated areas. This should only take a few days; in this time I will map out my route, gather my supplies, and take my family to our BOL.
Ah-ha! Running even farther away. A good strategy to get as far away from the disaster as possible. This makes you less effected.
My plan is simple: keep out of sight, travel light and well armed, and make use of my surroundings for defilade and sustenance. We will stay off of paved roads as these will be the most likely to be patrolled. Our horses will serve as transportation, but sometimes may prove to be a hindrance as they are large and can make noise when walking. This is our best alternative to make it across the USA in a timely manner.
I would take a car or truck. Riding a horse across the USA is no small feat. Less care, maintenance and problems normally. A car is a lot faster too. Dangerous also as you would have to use public roadways. Now if you could not get gasoline I might consider a horse and buggy if I already had the horse and buggy. Pulling a wagon makes the horse much less tired than riding it all day.
I do not think a person can truly understand this point of view unless they have expereinced something to this effect. I witnessed many things that I mentioned during Hurricane Katrina, so please do not infer more than what the material says.
You might be surprised. A lot of people around here have been through quite a bit. That why they are here.
My intentions with this are a worst case scenario: I reckon this was the wrong board to put the topic in, however I feel strongly about the subject and I think if it covers topics discussed previously then it's a great review. But to say that the United States could not see civil unrest is a stretch from the truth. We may not have state run media, however we do have a media that does not show all aspects of current events. When Cairo was revolting, I saw more about Lady GaGa than I did on the streets of Cairo.
Well we do have state run media. It is just that no one watches it. PBS, CSPAN, etc. Some of the least watched networks in the US, unless something juicy is on. We have civil unrest too. But there has never been national civil unrest. Closest we had was the Civil War, 150 years ago.
We will head east to the Blue Ridge Mountains of Tennessee. This is where we will make our home with many family members already living in the impenetrable forest slopes. There is an abundance of mountain water that pours out of the rock so fresh water supply is adequate. Our trapping skills acquired on the farm (from trapping wild pigs to rabbits) will become particularly useful as we will wish to use ammunition or make noise as little as possible.
I cannot give an exact detail of our trail as I do not wish to compromise our contingency, but I will post another update soon to give some idea of the route will shall take.
Leaving a farm LA to go to a forest in TN? Alright it is your plan and I won't criticize that idea. I don't know about "impenetrable". Trapping pigs and rabbits sounds like a good idea. You might want to consider some form of carbohydrate however.
I like the seperation of duties. I too have given this some thought. My job is the procurement and maintenance of gear (Weapons, Tools, Lighting, etc...) My oldest brother is responsible for accommodations as in camp site, sleep gear, and fire making. Other members too have been deligated a task.
Sounds like you have them all squared away. Since they have agreed to your taskings are they well trained? Practice makes perfect you know. If they don't know about the tasks you "deligated" you might want to let them know so they can be ready.
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by SickMaker » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:26 am

Let's see, it's 1942 and The United States are at war with Japan. We rounded up over 110,000 Japanese-Americans and sent them to "Relocation Camps". I did not truly no the suffering that was dealt to these people, but I did have a chance to drive the Catalina Highway, or General Hitchcock Highway, or whatever you want to call it. Much of the highway was constructed by, yep you guessed it, Japanese-American internees.

The old camp, which is now known as the Gordon Hirabayashi Recreation Area, was previously a prison camp converted into a labor camp to house innocent citizens. What did these internees wear? They wore state issued uniforms. For some to say that they have never seen this happen nor that it will ever happen is quite naive and delusional.

Now, I will admit that I am a worst case scenario kind of guy, but why would I not prepare for the worst? And as for the people who took to the streets of Cairo and other cities across Egypt, they did not ask for nor did they receive martial law. I'm trying to avoid political issues, but simply stating that "what if" there were no authorities to rely on?

Yes, natural diusasters and politcal unrest are quite different happenings, but how unlikely is it that these two cannot be linked? I am quite fortunate to have been raised in a farming community, where we bred goats, ran horses, raised watermelon, and ate yard eggs. I have been given a great education in the world of agriculture that I will be able to utilize in a SHTF situation.

My reasoning for leaving and heading to the forrest...Camouflage. My house sits on 7 acres of open. Now trees, no hedges, just open land. I called the slopes an "impenetrable fortress" because of the sheer vastness of wooded terrain surrounding the property. impenetrable meaning for someone or something to try and get to us, we would have advanced warning and be able to defend ourselves or welcome the new comer. From the top, it is hard to see the cabin and small outcroppings of buildings. it is near impossible to see the home from line of sight due in large part to the trees.

Does it make sense to someone to leave a ready supply of nutirents and comforts of our home, well of course not. But remember, sometimes we have to make the decision to stay or leave. If conditions deteriorate enough that life in our community is compromised, then having the contingency of fleeing to our BOL is a good idea.

Plan for the worst, pray for the best!
"As journalism goes, so goes democracy!" Bill Moyers

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by Stercutus » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:56 am

And as for the people who took to the streets of Cairo and other cities across Egypt, they did not ask for nor did they receive martial law.
Actually, that is exactly what they asked for and exactly what they got:
Martial law is the imposition of military rule by military authorities over designated regions on an emergency basis—usually only temporary—when the civilian government or civilian authorities fail to function effectively (e.g., maintain order and security, and provide essential services), when there are extensive riots and protests, or when the disobedience of the law becomes widespread.
The imposition of slave labor during WWII by the US government was based upon an extremist racist policies that were begun years before the bombing of Pearl Harbor or the onset of any disaster. Such racist policies no longer exist in US society under color of law. So the chance of us gathering up say "marginalized group X" and sending them to a camp in the US is likely along the lines of the 2012 Apocalypse actually happening, maybe less so.
simply stating that "what if" there were no authorities to rely on?
That is not martial law.

Any government that has become so ineffective as to not be able to govern at all, even through martial law will find it impossible to gather people up and put them into camps and issue uniforms. They won't have the resources to do it. The only reason they were able to do that during WWII was because the government was so large and powerful. Both Germany and the US had extremely well run government and military organizations that allowed them to do it.
Yes, natural disasters and political unrest are quite different happenings, but how unlikely is it that these two cannot be linked?
Very unlikely. Certain conditions have to exist for political unrest to occur. A natural disaster might create dissatisfaction with the government but almost never creates civil unrest unless the pre-existing conditions were already ripe for it.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by SickMaker » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:10 am

Egypt has been under martial law since the late 60's wherein the military controleld everything. This state of emergency has been in place to keep quiet all those who oppose the rule of the regime, a more focused form of martial law. The citizen protestors asked for the military to usher in a new age of democracy, giving power to the military to run the country until free elections can be held.

So I guess you are right, Blacksmith, they wanted an end to martial law to be rplaced by martial law! Yes, there are many forms of martial law that have been implemented and the definition is not very strict.

I am quite displeased with how I delivered my message, as it has become merely the point of criticism and no real disxcussion has come to pass. Constructive criticism is invaluable; if only that were to be offered here.

Now to just wait and see how your points are misinterpreted and squewd with someone's....well, please go on.
"As journalism goes, so goes democracy!" Bill Moyers

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by ZombieGranny » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:44 pm

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Last edited by ZombieGranny on Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by SickMaker » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:50 pm

we do get an abundance of blackberries, which grow to Alice In Wonderland proportions if not regularly cut. And the open field my home is in is just one of our connecting lots. Our pastures stay open and well grazed, not much defilade in our area except by the river.

You actually gave me an idea. If one has to bug in, or even at their BOL, plant large thorny flora to either ward off predators or at elast make it as much of a hindrance that said predators will not have a fun time trying to "get at you". sorry, i had to throw at least one mem in there. But seriously, that is something to take away from this post; large thorny plants=non-attention grabbing barricades like razor wire or hesco bastions.
"As journalism goes, so goes democracy!" Bill Moyers

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by stressrelief 28.5 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:38 am

Damn it man I planned on going to Tn. myself.I guess it will be a race to see who gets there first.Im only 100 miles away and I maybe on horse back too.

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Re: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Post by Kelvar » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:10 am

SickMaker wrote:Egypt has been under martial law since the late 60's wherein the military controleld everything. This state of emergency has been in place to keep quiet all those who oppose the rule of the regime, a more focused form of martial law. The citizen protestors asked for the military to usher in a new age of democracy, giving power to the military to run the country until free elections can be held.

So I guess you are right, Blacksmith, they wanted an end to martial law to be rplaced by martial law! Yes, there are many forms of martial law that have been implemented and the definition is not very strict.
I thought Mubarak was a civilian dictator? Not that it matters, I suppose. A dictator of any sort is a bad thing.
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