Collie of Doom wrote:
Outlaw80401 wrote:I actually signed up based on this post, as I hope I have some good input to add to the conversation. During Katrina I was assigned to the 220th Military Police Colorado NG, deployed to New Orleans to carry out stabilizing operations. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of the arrest I made were local PD, hording relief supplies and looting to take care of there own families. And the other 20% would be media going where they were not allowed to be. Our marching orders were aid and protect the civilian population, and reestablish rule of law, through the use of marshal law. The whole experience left a pretty bad taste in my mouth for civilian law enforcement, and really exposed for me some of there training weakness. So here is my advice when you find yourself in that kind of situation. 1: If the local administration orders an evacuation....Leave! It’s very easy to go from "Defender of my house" to refugee when everything on your block gets destroyed by an act of God. 2: If you’re going to stay make sure you have not only suitable shelter, but all the supplies you need to pack in at least a month. I came across many houses that had the food, water, medicine, and responsible firepower to sustain a safe and healthy environment for an extended time. I also came across many houses that had wannabe Rambo’s looking to pick a fight with anyone who came near there property. Rambo was usually dumb enough to start trouble with a platoon of hardened vets fresh off a tour from Iraq, and he always lost. The well prepared and disciplined survivalist was not only allowed to carry on, some invited us in for a hot cup of coffee and have since become very good friends of mine. 3: And most important of all, Keep your head on a swivel and your eyes and ears open and sharp. In the modern day a total nationwide break down of law cannot be caused by a natural disaster, and even if the local government agencies can’t handle it, there are always more resources coming, and you will know them when you see them.
That's a good post. This whole thread has been a good one. Very thought provoking. One thing those of us who've served in interesting places like Iraq and Afghanistan can tell you is that civilization is a thin veneer. Don't count on it when SHTF. You have the right to self defense and defense of your family, and short term, bugging in and staying out of trouble is probably best. But at the same time, civilization is EACH and ALL of us. In a longer term situation where there's enough of a breakdown that Fed and State and even civilian Law Enforcement is no longer very present, then do your part to support and maintain whatever order your community/neighborhood comes up with, even if you don't 100% agree with it. Hold it together. Encourage your little group to work as a team and to respect seniority and competency. Throw your support behind any local elected positions, councils, courts, legal codes, and the people in leadership positions. If most everyone is supportive, and the set up is reasonably just, then these systems will have legitimacy, because that only comes with "the consent of the governed." Be cooperative, respectful, willing to pitch in. And as TheLight said earlier in the thread, act with integrity. They taught us when very new Army recruits that integrity means doing the right thing, regardless of whether anyone's watching.
I should have read this posting when I first joined this group. Thank you Raptor for sharing your story and insights. It is still difficult to talk about my Katrina experience in any detail. It changed my opinion of local LEOs forever. A totally agree with your observations and those of others above. The only thing I would add, and this maybe controversial.
Don't be so critical on ALL "looters". We have all seen this famous photo comparison; if not here it is:
http://www.flagarts.com/faculty-staff/J ... atrina.pdf
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Looting is wrong, it's stealing and should not be condoned. That being said, desperate people do desperate things. There is a big different between stealing a big screen TV during a flood, and taking water from an abandoned truck. I saw people attempt to drink that flood water because they were so thirsty . No one deserves to be shot, because their thirsty or starving during a Natural Disaster. Just my opinion.
Almost, a clear distinction needs to be made between a Natural Disaster and a true PAW situation. As bad as Katrina was, it was still only a Natural Disaster, be it the worst this country has seen. LEO while out of control at time, were still functional and had limited capability. The LA Riots of 1992, a different situation.
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After returning from NO, I spent several days volunteering at the Houston Astrodome. Thousand of volunteers , from all over Texas, came out everyday to help the evacuees, with tons of donated clothing, shoes and basic necessities. That outpouring helped restore some of my faith in my fellow man. My purpose for joining this group was to improve my knowledge and expand my survive skills, in the event of the unthinkable. Thanks Raptor for keeping humanity in our discussions.