hope for me and my family?

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singlespeed
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hope for me and my family?

Post by singlespeed » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:32 pm

Reading Mel Tappan's book on survival, lots of good info, but according to
the book, if you don't live in a remote area you are toast.My family and i don't live in town,we live on the out skirts of Knoxville Tn. and at this time we can not afford to move.Is their hope for those that live in subdivisions where you don't really know your neighbors.? Please help a newbie out. thx

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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by shrapnel » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:43 pm

Hi, welcome to ZS! You might want to wander over to our Introductions forum and, uh, introduce yourself. :wink:

As to your question, I'd say that it depends on what sort of disaster you're facing, how well-prepared you are, and a whole host of other factors.
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by DannusMaximus » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:50 pm

Singlespeed, be not forlorn. Start scrolling through this forum posting list, clicking on anything that looks intriguing. Then do the same on some other forums. Many of your general questions will be answered, friend, then you can begin posting more specific questions that pertain to your situation.

Lots of survival benefits to living in an area with pre-existing civilization and infrastruture (i.e., a city or subdivision), IMHO. 'Course, I DO live in one of these areas, so I'm probably biased... :wink:
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Vicarious_Lee » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:52 pm

Subdivisions are great, actually. Real-life SHTF or even PAW scenarios aren't what they used to be. The whole 1970's - 80's "Run to the hills and live off the land" nuclear holocaust model doesn't really exist anymore, and isn't practical these days.

This forum will really get you started. You can stock and store SO MUCH SHIT in your suburb that it's not even funny. Let us show you how. Theoretically, you and your neighbors have got arable land that you could rip down fences and start up a garden if you needed to, but realistically, that's pretty far out on the spectrum of Bad Things that are likely to happen.

You wanna be able to survive for a month, a year? No problem. We (in the general sense. Not me specifically) can help. Wanna have a contingency plan for when the dead arise to feast on the living? You've come to the right place my friend.

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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Gatorfarmer » Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:25 pm

Check a globe. Turn it to Europe. Look for country shaped vaguely like a boot. Drop your finger on Rome. It's been there a long time. Survived most any type of SHTF you could imagine and then some over the last couple thousand years. Still a city there. Cities are hard to kill.

Now turn the globe to Africa. Drop your finger to Zimbabwe. It'll say Rhodesia if it is a globe as old as I am or thereabouts. The folks that lived self sufficiently out the country there... They aren't doing so good.

That's simplistic, but so were a lot of the old survival books.

A lot depends on what you're trying to survive, what you're worried about, what you do, and what you want to do.

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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Abacus » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:05 am

Tappan is outdated and a fool.

Gator actually hit a really good point. I saw a lot of those single farmsteads fold in Angola (We're Portuguese) just like Suid Afrika and Rhodesia (I refuse to use the modern terms).

All your "Fortress of Solitude" means is that when people do come to burn you out (and they will) there won't be anyone close enough to help you.
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by flyingredgoat » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:17 am

Don't sweat it. Most SHTF situations are not the kind that wipe the city of the map. Even if an invading army arrives, your odd are better than if an invading army arrived at your farm.

Most emergencies are local and temporary. Blizzards and tornadoes. Stock up food and water for at least a week, and those won't faze you.

Just don't give up. :)


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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by nacho » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:23 am

singlespeed wrote:but according to the book, if you don't live in a remote area you are toast.
http://www.codylundin.com/Loose.html Check out this book it is aimed at suburban / urban survival.
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Post by NightHiker » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:30 am

:words:
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Finch » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:34 am

singlespeed wrote:Reading Mel Tappan's book on survival, lots of good info, but according to
the book, if you don't live in a remote area you are toast.My family and i don't live in town,we live on the out skirts of Knoxville Tn. and at this time we can not afford to move.Is their hope for those that live in subdivisions where you don't really know your neighbors.? Please help a newbie out. thx
i was in la vernne/symerna a couple weeks ago it seems to be that you could disappear into the hills there a lot quicker then here in South East PA

I'm not sure what it looks like where you live but the population density seemed low comparatively

Aslo generally seems like a lot of nice folk in that area. but then again every thing is nicer then philly
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by TravisM.1 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:39 am

singlespeed wrote:Reading Mel Tappan's book on survival, lots of good info, but according to
the book, if you don't live in a remote area you are toast.My family and i don't live in town,we live on the out skirts of Knoxville Tn. and at this time we can not afford to move.Is their hope for those that live in subdivisions where you don't really know your neighbors.? Please help a newbie out. thx
Tappan's writing were written in a different era, geared towards different threats.

Not that his wrtings didn't have merit then.
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Chantrea » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:10 am

Welcome!

Keep in mind, there is more than one kind of emergency/PAW scenario. In many, you can do okay in your house even if it's in the burbs. No, you probably wouldn't be able to raise livestock larger than a chicken (and maybe not even that, depending on local ordinances--though to be fair in the event of government/societal breakdown those aren't so so important anymore). But chances are you do have the capacity for gardening. You can still put together a short term pantry, and probably a long term one as well.

Don't get hung up on one PAW scenario, or even one person's thoughts about what you "should do". Part of prepping is the ability to be flexible and to *adapt* to the situation you are in *now*. People can prep wherever they are. It's not going to look like your book (at least not right now), but that's no excuse for just throwing in the towel.

Not knowing your neighbors is only partially on you. You can make an effort, but whether or not those neighbors are helpful or respond to your overtures are not something you can control. I know from personal experience though that standoffish or asshole neighbors CAN rise to the occasion (and go right back to how they were before). (I'm not saying that always happens, though). Only you know if you've done what you can to be on good terms with them.

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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by PaleHorse » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:14 am

Gatorfarmer wrote:Check a globe. Turn it to Europe. Look for country shaped vaguely like a boot. Drop your finger on Rome. It's been there a long time. Survived most any type of SHTF you could imagine and then some over the last couple thousand years. Still a city there. Cities are hard to kill.

Now turn the globe to Africa. Drop your finger to Zimbabwe. It'll say Rhodesia if it is a globe as old as I am or thereabouts. The folks that lived self sufficiently out the country there... They aren't doing so good.

That's simplistic, but so were a lot of the old survival books.

A lot depends on what you're trying to survive, what you're worried about, what you do, and what you want to do.
That's something to really think about. Citizens die, but Rome has remained. Civilization continues, yet most of Africa is still PAW like. hmmmmm Interesting take on the subject. I like it.
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by propdoc » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:51 pm

Yeah, what they all said...:)

I like Tappan but as was said, his advice was for different PAW situation, nuclear war, and thankfully we'll not have to deal with that now. Most of the ones you'll face now are one's you can survive in place. Start with getting what you need to live for 30 days in your home without outside help.

Really though, prep is all about being flexible and having the mindset that "yes, you can survive this." Everything else is just buying cool equipment and learning neat new skills.

Welcome to Zombie Squad.
http://www.codylundin.com/Loose.html Check out this book it is aimed at suburban / urban survival.
Nice link, I had just ordered the book over the weekend from Amazon.
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by singlespeed » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:40 pm

Thanks for the welcome. Tappan states several times in his book on survival,that a monetary collapse is imminent. I belive it's going to happen.Tappan goes on to paint a
very grim picture; because the zombie looters rape,rob and then set fire to everything in sight.Anyway i feel a little better about dealing with the undead,so thanks.I also went out today and bought Cody Lundin's book

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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:13 pm

singlespeed wrote:Tappan states several times in his book on survival,that a monetary collapse is imminent.
You know he's been dead close to 30 years, right? He (and many others) said it was imminent before many of the people on this board were out of diapers. Hasn't happened yet.

I mean, I think he's right too, and we can't keep piling up debt forever. But anyone who claims to know when the house of cards will tumble is a liar. They might be right, randomly, or they might just update the predictions every couple years and act like the previous predictions never happened.
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Gatorfarmer » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:13 pm

Eh. I was well past toilet trained by the time Tappan died. But I'm one of the older guys here.

Worth noting is this from Wiki -

"Ironically, and largely unknown to his readership, Mr. Tappan himself spent the last years of his own life confined to a wheelchair, after initially incurring a severe foot laceration from a broken drinking glass in his swimming pool and then developing debilitating leg failure, due in part to the obesity developed during his convalescence from the laceration. This eventually led to congestive heart failure."

He also married into money. His wife was an heiress.

Thus there was a bit of the Robert E. Howard factor. For those that don't know, Howard spent his time writing about buxom women and strapping men and all sorts of lurid things, but apparently was too timid to bother losing his virginity to a two dollar whore. Heavy Walter Mitty factor.

Basically, here's what is going to happen in a slow burn type of economic melt down and what most people in suburbia ought prepare for - your quaint suburban place becomes like the ghetto that I used to call home (and my old ghetto becomes like Detroit, which is a whole 'nother level of ghetto). Not so bad when you get used to it, but be ready for bad water, power outages and spot food shortages as well as the odd armed interlopers. You get that covered and you've got a lot of what you need to worry about covered.

People still live in Detroit - after a fashion - and that's basically the PAW world right now. Adapt. That's the real key to survival.

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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Cybrludite » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:46 am

You may want to ditch the Tappan, and check out Ragnar Benson's Urban Survival
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Hatch » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:39 am

phil_in_cs wrote:
singlespeed wrote:Tappan states several times in his book on survival,that a monetary collapse is imminent.
You know he's been dead close to 30 years, right? He (and many others) said it was imminent before many of the people on this board were out of diapers. Hasn't happened yet.

I mean, I think he's right too, and we can't keep piling up debt forever. But anyone who claims to know when the house of cards will tumble is a liar. They might be right, randomly, or they might just update the predictions every couple years and act like the previous predictions never happened.
Yeah, you have to look at those copyright dates. :lol: Having said that, Mel Tappan wasn't that far off at the time. He actually didn't live to see the worst of it in 1981/82. Double-digit inflation and unemployment, a prime rate over 20%. I was a grade school kid in those days, and had recently relocated from a quiet suburb in Maine to a south Florida shithole apartment as my father chased jobs across the country and my parents were stuck with a house in Maine they couldn't sell. Our family had gone from a comfortable middle class lifestyle to lower class subsistence in the space of six months. There were a lot of concerned people at the time asking "how bad will it get?" More than a few people were talking about the end of the U.S. as we know it. It just so happens that we (as a country) managed to squeak through that economic crisis.

Now, here we are 25+ years later, facing it again. Will we squeak through this time? Different game, different rules than 1981. It looks to me like we're playing Russian Roulette with five bullets. If Mel Tappan was alive today, he'd be screaming at the top of his lungs that the end was nigh. And he might be right.

Tappan aside and back to the OP, you don't have to pack your family up and move to the hills in order to be prepared. There are a lot of suburban survivalists out there. I myself live in a subdivision on the outskirts of a major city, and there aren't many scenarios I can conceive that would require me to relocate in the event of the SHTF.

Further, an economic collapse does not necessarily mean a collapse of social order, rule of law, etc. The best survival resources you can have to prepare for an economic collapse are a good supply of stored food, the title to your primary residence, and no debt. You can work on all of those things regardless of your physical location.

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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by TravisM.1 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:42 am

Hatch wrote:He actually didn't live to see the worst of it in 1981/82. Double-digit inflation and unemployment, a prime rate over 20%. I was a grade school kid in those days, and had recently relocated from a quiet suburb in Maine to a south Florida shithole apartment as my father chased jobs across the country and my parents were stuck with a house in Maine they couldn't sell. Our family had gone from a comfortable middle class lifestyle to lower class subsistence in the space of six months.
Similar deal here. Pops lost his job in the brickyard, and ended up travelling the east coast working construction. We ended up moving from a large, victorian style two and a half story house in a high-tax area, to a single story brick home on a flood plain between the railroad tracks and a cornfield. An old guy who lived in the area told me that the whole place was a farm at one time, and the house we were living in was a chicken coop at one point.
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Re: hope for me and my family?

Post by Istvan56 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:55 am

Welcome to ZS. Yeah, I remember Mel Tappan being the Survivalist Guru who liked Southern Oregon. I first read of his teachings back in the late 1970's when I first started prepping. My first BOL was up one of the canyons by Salt Lake City and it included a fall out shelter (built by someone else). Nowadays I'm prepping mostly for the "Big One," the magnitude 10 earthquake predicted for the Pacific NW in the next few decades. Actually been prepping for it for the last two decades. I figure that as long as I'm ready for it, it won't hit. :lol:

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