Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

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morepower4me
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Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by morepower4me » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:16 am

Hello all, I've searched for this sort of topic but have only come across brief mentions of it in transportation.

In preparing for the PAW, how does one prioritize speed vs all terrain capability?

In some PAW movies (I am Legend, Resident Evil 3) the roads are open, cars and gas (relatively) available, and priority is placed on moving constantly as to not be surrounded. In this type of situation with little contact, a car, and a fast one in particular, would be an advantage. Especially keeping fuel economy in mind. Imagine an Evolution or STI as an example.

The car would give you the best handling/MPG (particularily if modified for handling/speed) AND some collision/zombie protection if you assume roads will be drivable.

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In other movies, the assumption is that you will be surrounded, so your BOV better have armor, window mesh, chainsaw slots and a cow catcher up front in you want to stand a chance. (or at least a lifted 4x4) Here obviously a motorcycle would be a bad idea, and even a car probably wouldn't stand a chance.

A 4x4 SUV would probably be the best compromise and offers the best collision/zombie protection but they have poor MPG, and will be slow. Also, if roads are being blocked (by National Guard/police) going off road or around them may get you shot, making your 4x4 potentially useless if you are in a line of traffic anyway.

I envision the ideal being some sort of daily drivable 4x4 with semi-reasonable mileage,

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A motorcycle would provide the off road AND on road prowess (I am thinking of a motard (pic below in case anyone is un-aware - these things outhandle 600/750 sport bikes in the twisties, and have full travel suspension for jumps/off roading) but be SORELY lacking in the bullet/shambler/looter protection catagory.
Imagine the bike below, but with rain tires on instead of the race slicks.

Image


So whats a ZS'er to do? (assume an armored 600hp 4x4 race truck loaded with a CBR 1000RR and a CRF450R in the bed is NOT a possibility...)


Thoughts?

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by crowbar » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:51 am

motorcycles make a lot of noise, so be ready to ride balls out.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by MrPredictable » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:40 am

I think that if you have the ability to use a car (good roads, relativly secure fuel sources) your primary goal should be mpg rather than speed. If the roads are unmaintained for a year you arn't going to be able to go safely over 100 KPH (60MPH) in very many places and frankly you don't need to. Cars get their ideal gas mileage at 60 or 70 mph so going over that reduces your range while saving your time (something you have a lot of in the PAW).

The ideal car would be a balance of mileage and the amount of storage space that you need. A diseal would probally be preferable as they usually get amazing mileage, the fuel is more abundant(home heating fuel works) and last longer than gas engines. I would reccommend a VW golf or similar vehicle.

What you say about the SUV's is what seems to be the general consensus on the board, but it should be added that a truck has more storage space and if you have extra room to bring bikes.

Motorbikes would be ideal for 1 person who is traveling light. If your by yourself it would be a better pick than the car.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by Finch » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:52 am

in a car/truck you are "inside" which can do a lot for your morale

and provide some protection from elements and or zombies

Finch's Truck

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by derajer » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:01 pm

I think this: http://zombiehunters.org/wiki/index.php/BOV pretty much covers all the possibilities/angles or provides links to further articles that do. I personally wouldn't want anything with just two wheel and no protection from the outside. The car vs truck/suv/van issue definitely just depends on what your points A and B are.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by meatshieldChris » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:09 pm

I have a small "jeep" form factor vehicle, similarly sized and shaped to the suzuki samurai. I think it's nearly ideal. As much as (or even more) storage space than a car, and if it's not too crazily modified it sips gas. And typically ridiculously maneuverable, much more so than a larger SUV (turning radius is incredible, can park it anywhere, narrow enough to fit between those nutty delivery vans and the next lane).

It's what I'd choose. You only need to come across a single all-lane wide accident in a car and you'd have to turn around because of possibly bad ditches that a little 4x4 can deal with pretty easy.

I was at the dump yesterday, and went into some areas in 2wd that I wouldn't have brought a 2wd vehicle. I didn't need 4x4 but it was the little bit of extra safety net there if there was a traction problem with the slimy conditions. Plus you can do things like go in 2wd till you get stuck, then you've got traction in reserve to get back out of trouble, whereas in a car, once you're stuck, you've gotta get yourself unstuck instead of just shifting into 4-lo and reversing.

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by andygates » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:22 pm

If you're preparing for the PAW, remember that roads will deteriorate very quickly. Without constant sweeping from traffic they'll get cluttered with plant refuse, seasonal damage and windblown trash, then the surfaces will crack as they get seeded, and erode away into gullies and chuckholes. If you're thinking about the *post*-apocalypse, a regular car seems a bit too delicate.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by nimdabew » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:42 pm

I choose airplane. No matter how many zombies there are, they can't jump 500 feet into the air. That and a crowbar and a screw driver. Smash window at airport, use screw driver to help hot wire car.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by Skinny » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:24 pm

In my travels, I have gone on gravel and dirt roads and in my experience, cars AND 4x4 drive trucks can get stuck on dirt roads when its been raining a lot. More advice I have learned is that if I didn't stop the truck on the dirt road when it was a mud pit, I probably wouldn't have had needed a tractor to pull it out. Not that I purposely go out on mudding adventures, mind you. So just because you got a truck, doesn't mean your immune to off-road troubles.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by Biff » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:54 pm

. . .
Last edited by Biff on Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by meatshieldChris » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:35 pm

I wonder what the Land Master is doing right now...I bet that'd be a cool collectable. Wonder how capable it actually is in real life...

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by Biff » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:20 pm

. . .
Last edited by Biff on Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by MrPredictable » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:51 pm

According to the Wikipedia the land master was actually a capable machine that was actually made mainly from old trucks so parts would be widely available. So it was the only real thing in the movie. Its now in the hands of a private collector.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by ferretrodeo » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:01 pm

I am of the opinion that I will want to be able to carry as much as I can when I bugout. I know some cars have a lot of space but I think gas will be easier to get than some of the stuff that I will be hauling around. Cars do have some definate advantages but I think in the end I will want a 4X4.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by TravisM.1 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:38 pm

I'll take my SUV for serious situations. It's got a steel frame, none of this unibody shit. It's heavy. Four wheel drive, a hippy-smasher on the front, a trailer hitch on the rear, and can seat five comfortably, along with damned near anything I'd want to cram in the back.

The wife's cobalt isn't heavy enough, has the ground clearance of a crawling baby, and lacks storage capacity.

A motorcycle is a toy, moreso if you've got other people to worry about. Carrying capacity sucks.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by meatshieldChris » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:59 am

TravisM.1 wrote:a hippy-smasher on the front
my new favorite synonym for "bambi bumper"

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by Strider » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:30 pm

Horse..

Suits my BOL plan

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by velojym » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:17 pm

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by Dark Cloud » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:27 pm

I keep vascilating between truck and jeep, bothin 4wd. I'd like a bambi-bumper, winch, towing pintle/trailer hitch, roll cage, lift kit (but not so high as to make it hey-y'all-watch-this ...enough to give it clearance for obstacles I can't swerve to drive around), foglights, a spotlight or two, giant blower sticking out of the hood, flames on the side and "DEATHMOBILE" spray painted across the windshield.

Okay, except for those last three things I'd like all that stuff in either a truck or a jeep - truck for cargo capacity, jeep for maneuverability.

But a truck can be just as nimble as a jeep.

This is my current BOV

http://3img.automobilemag.com/p/0062DD0 ... /image.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by Aikibiker » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:51 am

What about a combo package. I am thinking a decent midsized SUV or king cab pickup truck with 4WD, a winch, bambi bumper, dual use tires.

Then take one of those 80cc honda scooters and throw it in the back. They are small, get great gas milage, and are four cycle unlike their 50cc cousins which require you to scrounge 2-cycle oil.

This way if you get to a point where the truck is untenable. (Fuel shortage, blocked roads, disabled, etc) you still have a viable backup vehicle. A little creative packing using the cargo rack, filling the step through space with cargo (use the passenger pegs for your feet) and carrying a backpack and you can still carry quite a bit of gear.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by velojym » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:45 am

I generally keep my Montague bicycle in the back of my truck, as a sort of 'escape pod' or get-home ride.
If we had to bug out and the roads were blocked/undriveable, we'd take some trails behind our neighborhood
with our bikes, which will get us to the airport, where we can fly out... and hopefully there'll be a calmer place
to land somewhere.
If nothing else, I can get us out of the populated area. Plenty of private airfields in these parts, and I know most
of the owners near here.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by BothellBob » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:11 pm

First: Regarding the use of movies as a basis for planning senarios - Don't waste your daydreaming time. Movies are entertainment meant to draw as large a crowd as possible so that the movie houses can sell you popcorn. It is highly unlikely a PAW will be remotely related to anything Bruce Willis would star in.
Second: What do you mean by PAW? We throw the term around rather loosely. Do you mean TEOTWAWKI; longterm SHTF; forced Bugout? Apocalypse, in its common use (the word is Greek for "revelation") implies a disruption of "biblical" proportions. Gasoline is problematic in that scenario. Immediate PAW, then? If you need to use the freeway, then a motorcycle or bicycle; and be sure to travel in a pack. Little else will get around the traffic jam. Long term? Bicycle.

Have a realistic plan, have a backup plan. Bug in first. Love your neighbors. Know where you are bugging out to. Know who you are bugging out with. Be a welcomed refugee.
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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by bilojax » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:32 pm

Best vehicle is a combo package of a canoe and a mountain bike for each person. Wheels and gear for the canoe so the bike can tow it loaded, space and attachment points so the canoe can carry the bicycle along with all the gear, and proper rigging so two canoes can raft up and become a sail-catamaran.

I've got a 4x4 that I'll take to start out, but even if I successfully get it out of the city where I live, I expect to lose it within the first month or two. If I'm lucky, I'll make it to a forest near one of the the proper rivers and I can bury/hide the jeep, to come back for in a few years when things settle down or when I become part of a stronger party. In the early years of a breakdown, however, no solitary vehicle will make it. It will just be a lure to draw a gang down on you, and you'll be lucky if they leave you alive after stealing all your supplies and the vehicle.

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Re: Car vs 4x4 vs cycle?

Post by velojym » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:39 pm

A second canoe would be a good idea for us, I think. We have a nearby river that's navigable all the way to the Gulf, and if that's a good way to go, we could raft up and carry ourselves, bikes, and a good amount of gear. I can also hack together a serviceable sailing rig for it, as well, though we'd be a bit limited in its use on the river.
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