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Do you have experience with acquaintance or intimate violence?
Yes, it has happened to me and I'm lucky to be alive. 13%  13%  [ 18 ]
Yes, it has happened to someone I know. 35%  35%  [ 49 ]
Yes, I was involved in a professional (LEO, etc.) capacity. 20%  20%  [ 28 ]
No. 32%  32%  [ 44 ]
Total votes : 139
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:11 am 
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When I was a child, my mother went through a long string of abusive assholes who thought we made great punching bags. There was really nothing I could do to remove us from the situation, but eventually Mom would get tired of the beating and move on to the next abusive asshole. Long story short, when I was 10 I found myself staring at Mom's boyfriend over the barrel of a loaded rifle. The asshole had an axe in his hand, and he had already used it to chop his way in through the front door and threatened to kill us with it. I don't really remember all of what I said to him, but I convinced him that if he didn't put the axe down, he was a dead man. After the police showed up and hauled the f*ck off to the county jail, I realized that I was lucky as hell. At 10 years old I really wasn't prepared to take someone else's life, even if I had every legal right to do so, I just wanted him to stop beating on us and leave us alone. Though I've had to draw a weapon a few times since then in defense of my family or my life (Thank God I've not had to pull a trigger), I will always remember what his face looked like in my sight picture, and the shaking that made it very hard to keep the rifle pointed at him.

Domestic/Acquaintance violence can strike anywhere at any time, in all social strata. I was lucky because I grew up around firearms and was taught from an early age how to handle and shoot them. I was also taught about the final solution that can come from the barrel of a gun. Some of my childhood friends weren't so lucky.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:02 pm 
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My sister works in a Hospital...won't say which one, but she sees the victims of violence come in every day (I couldn't do her job). Recently, a friend of hers who also works there broke up with her boyfriend, who proceeded to follow her home, force his way into her apartment, and stab her in the neck with a pair of scissors.

She's alive (thankfully) but he got her right through the voicebox, so she can't speak...cops picked him up a short time later. I'm lucky to say that's the closest I've been to a murder.

I didn't know that about Pathfinder...my sympathies.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:35 pm 
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I had 2 good friends, one become infatuated with the other and when she refused his advances, he came over one night while her, her son and babysitter were eating pizza, slipped in through an unlocked back door then shot her in the head and then himself. Her husband and daughter were out of town at a sporting event.
When she saw him, she screamed at the kids and they fled through the front door and were in the yard when they heard the shots, she may have saved their lives.

You never understand these things but this was such a strange case, because my male friend was single, and dated frequently, he even dated another friend of mine. He never acted violent or unstable. He'd been rejected before. Why pick this one woman? The one that was married with children, to destroy their lives and his?

I didn't know this couple but the murder happened down the road from me.
A young couple, both 22, broke up and the male moved away to live with friends halfway across the state. He found out she started dating again, he drove 6 hours to put a bullet in her head and his. As far as she knew, that relationship was over.
As for getting a dog. He killed her dog.

It's horrible enough when someone dies at the hands of an acquaintance when there is a history of violence, but truly frightening when there is just no warning.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:54 pm 
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Yeah, I work in those circles. My experience is that random violence is only very, very, very rarely an actual random act. Here's some things that I've noticed are highly correlated with being a victim of violent crime, irrespective of whether or not they are causal:

1. Don't have too many homemade tattoos on your face, neck, ears, and/or knuckles.
2. Don't do a lot of drugs, or sell a lot of drugs.
3. Don't live in neighborhoods where either of the first two are common.
4. If you do #3, don't interact with, make business transactions with, or steal from those people.
5. Don't miss warning signs from people that you are close to. A gunshot to your head is almost NEVER the initial presenting symptom of a mental illness in a loved one.
6. If you have a potential #5 living in close proximity, you need to very seriously evaluate if having your guns in the home is actually better than having no guns in the home, and which is more likely to get you hurt.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:40 am 
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Thanks


Last edited by ChloeOBrienCTU on Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:53 am 
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Ever since I started learning the teachings of Buddha I don't really worry about this kind of thing from myself.

This kind of 'passionate crime' comes from individuals who act emotionally rather then logically. Buddha teaches that one should shed emotional reactions in favour of rational thought.

He also teaches that one should live in the moment and to pay attention to what the mind is doing. From mindfulness comes ultimate responsibility for personal action, by being mindfull my actions become my choice rather then just reactions I could regret later.

I am not a perfect student but I do often catch myself when debate turns to argument and internally remind myself that I don't need to get 'angry'. No anger = No desire to lash out.

The third lesson from Buddha is to manage your 'wants'. Paul/Pathfinder was at 'her' house. Somewhere along the way he decided to go there. He wanted to be there. I'm not trying to trash on him, but if he had decided differently he would (likely) still be here with us. Wanting to control another person and wanting to control a situation are both impossible but we often try to our detriment to do just that without being aware of it.

Now I just need to find a partner who believes the same.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:56 pm 
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I'd say look to the idea behind zomnie squad.....prepare for the worst. I've been around and had to deal with my share of people going off, snapping, and watching people I thought I knew do things I'd have never thought they could or would do.

Ask yourself this at least once a day when you are with people "what would I do now if any of them snapped or a random person walked up and started shooting?"

I'm not a gun slinger, not going to out draw a man who already has a gun pulled. That is a duck, roll, hide, run scenario if there ever was one. If someone draws a knife or just grabs something and starts swinging then being prepared by knowing self defense comes in handy no matter what Penn and Teller think.

When I was younger I made a bad choice and had dated a girl that was nuts, a true fruity bitch. I broke it off with her because I realised the booty wasn't worth the abuse. I woke up a few nights later with a stabing pain in my chest. She had broke into my apartment, stabbed me and then tried to cut her own wrists screaming she couldn't live without me. Lesson learned, secure the doors and windows, don't give out keys and bought a dog.

You can't be ready 100% of the time for the unexpected, but you can take steps to minimize the damage. I don't leave weapons around loaded. If someone comes over I don't allow a loaded weapon in the house. They have to remove the clip and empty the chamber. No huge blades either, not like we are going to be skinning a deer while watching the game.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:30 pm 
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There needs to be an answer of Yes, it happened to someone I know and someone else is lucky to be alive.

My mother's ex-husband was an abusive alcoholic asshole and just went sorta nuts one night. It took a few friends to stop me and take my keys to keep me from going over there and just fucking ending him. Now he's dying of liver failure, and I'm glad he has to go painfully and slowly. The bonus is he had a .45 colt that he loved more than anything, and apparently while drunk he put it on top of the dresser mirror deal in the master bedroom and completely forgot about it. A few years later my little brother found it while changing a light, and every time I shoot it it warms my heart to know he doesn't have it anymore.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:45 am 
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The recent killings in West Virginia led me to revisit the topic of intimate murders, and this thread I started a few years ago came up in my google search. So I thought I would revive it, because if this forum is at least partly about reducing our risks, this is certainly an area that should be considered.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:57 am 
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Vicarious_Lee wrote:
Yeah, I work in those circles. My experience is that random violence is only very, very, very rarely an actual random act. Here's some things that I've noticed are highly correlated with being a victim of violent crime, irrespective of whether or not they are causal:

1. Don't have too many homemade tattoos on your face, neck, ears, and/or knuckles.
2. Don't do a lot of drugs, or sell a lot of drugs.
3. Don't live in neighborhoods where either of the first two are common.
4. If you do #3, don't interact with, make business transactions with, or steal from those people.
5. Don't miss warning signs from people that you are close to. A gunshot to your head is almost NEVER the initial presenting symptom of a mental illness in a loved one.
6. If you have a potential #5 living in close proximity, you need to very seriously evaluate if having your guns in the home is actually better than having no guns in the home, and which is more likely to get you hurt.

To agree with the above post any more I would actually have to become Vicarious_Lee...

I regularly deal with intimate/acquaintance violence. Based on my experience, close to 100% of these incidents could have been very readily predicted and/or prevented.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:43 am 
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Yes, in the WV case, the shooter was a convicted felon. I believe in second chances, but there is certainly a red flag there.

Reports say that new boyfriend sent impolite texts to shooter, and that shooter posted violent messages on Facebook. The ex-girlfriend was in the process of getting a restraining order when the murders happened.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:13 pm 
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I worked as a newspaper reporter covering the crime and courts beat for several years. I'd say most of the homicides I wrote about involved people who knew each other.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:20 pm 
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The recent election cycle in LA has become shall we say heated. As a consequence of publicly supporting a candidate I know people who have received threats from the opposition's supporters. So this topic really hits home for me.

My advice to anyone who is worried about anyone being or becoming violent is to take that risk as a 100% serious risk. Document any threats and contact the local authorities and if possible press charges or take legal action. I have done both.

Any threat of violence should be assumed to be a real and credible threat. You should not have to live in a security bubble, I do not, but you should also recognize that people are unpredictable and can get quite emotional over seemingly trivial things.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:56 pm 
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I would put politically-motivated murders in a different category, maybe more like the murders of civil rights workers in the 1950s and 1960s. Not like the assassinations of Evers or King, but more like the murders of Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney. But some of the same precautions could apply: being aware of specific threats from specific people, prompt legal action, law enforcement involvement, and personal security measures.

I tend to be judicious about opinions I express publicly due to the risk of angering some unhinged person. I don't put political bumper stickers on my car or signs in my yard. On highly controversial topics (such as recent events near ZS headquarters), I tend to stick to factual analysis (this is also a symptom of me being slow to make up my mind on many topics and generally avoiding bandwagon thinking). (ETA: This does not prevent people from projecting onto me opinions that I have not expressed.)

I suspect there are some professions at higher risk for acquaintance murder: social workers and child protection workers, attorneys, and judges.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:22 am 
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When my youngest daughter was in grade 1
The father of one of her friends let a friend of his babysit his daughter (my daughter's friend)
The sitter sexually assaulted her, murdered her and then set fire to the house


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:25 am 
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When I was 20, I was attacked by 10 youth gang members
Not a pleasant experience


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:29 pm 
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dogbane wrote:
We here at ZS are generally firearm enthusiasts. We own and use guns for recreation and self-defense. We encourage our friends and families to acquire and learn to use firearms. But the statistics show that these are among the people most likely to use these weapons on us.

I would consider the source and the accuracy of any such statistics.


....."Be careful who you associate with and how you interact with them." This seems like a pretty lame, unhelpful answer. I know that I am convinced that none of my friends or loved ones will shoot me, but do most people feel the same level of comfort, or is it complacency or blind trust?

It isn't lame or unhelpful. The vast majority of murders are by people who are already criminals and they knew their victim.


Surely many of these situations come about due to to conflict in troubled relationships. In cases of divorces/breakups, especially if there are custody or assets involved, it's best to let the lawyers do the talking. If it is necessary to meet with the partner, it's best to do it in a public place or with witnesses present.

In the scheme of things these types of murders are rare and unusual during the "final" breakup. Prudent caution is still the rule though.



I posted a few years back about a soldier I worked with who shot three of his room mates in the head, killing two of them and leaving the third disabled. I won't bother repeating the story but I will note that with his conviction and sentence to life without parole there was a tiny degree of closure.

From what I have seen you can reduce your odds of being killed significantly by doing the following:

- Don't engage in a life of crime
- Don't hang out with or date criminals and drug addicts
- If you find yourself in an abusive relationship get out of it by any legal means necessary. Move and change your name if you have to. Keep running for at least ten years. While this is not a good option it is better than dying.
- Be mentally alert and pay attention to your surroundings.

From what I have seen of the world most killers fall into three categories:

- Criminals, most often career criminals trying to benefit from the killing in some way
- Crimes of passion; often with the passion being twisted and sick
- Crazies. Dahmer, Lanza, Manson, Loughner etc.

the first two categories being the most prominent. Crazies you can only do so much about. Your only chance there is to not be one of the first victims and take all threats of violence seriously. That is the only thing that will give you enough reaction time to something about it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Stercutus wrote:
dogbane wrote:
We here at ZS are generally firearm enthusiasts. We own and use guns for recreation and self-defense. We encourage our friends and families to acquire and learn to use firearms. But the statistics show that these are among the people most likely to use these weapons on us.

I would consider the source and the accuracy of any such statistics.


The link is dead, but my source was the BJS. As I quoted: "[m]ost homicides with known victim/offender relationships involved people who knew each other." This excludes homicides where a relationship between victim and offender is not known, which represents a significant proportion of homicides and includes many of those in your list.

Note also that I included a weasel word:
"these are among the people most likely"

Emphasis added.

Your other points are well-taken, however.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:40 am 
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The FBI publishes homicide statistics on murder victims relationship to their murderer. Here's the main page for 2012, it has a pie chart at the bottom showing relationship of victim to murderer:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide

There is an expanded table that breaks it down even further by circumstance:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_10_murder_circumstances_by_relationship_2012.xls

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Here's an important note from the table:
Quote:
NOTE: The relationship categories of husband and wife include both common-law and ex-spouses. The categories of mother, father, sister, brother, son, and daughter include stepparents, stepchildren, and stepsiblings. The category of acquaintance includes homosexual relationships and the composite category of other known to victim.


Unknown is the biggest category. Does that include unsolved murders? Does it include solved murders where it could not definitively be proven what the relationship was? Is it mostly just cases where the relationship was not part of the supplemental data?

They include ex-spouses in the category of husband and wife. What about ex-boyfriend and girlfriend?

How are roommates classified?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:55 pm 
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Close to most...
Quote:
In incidents of murder for which the relationships of murder victims and offenders were known, 30.2 percent were killed by someone they knew (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.); 12.5 percent of victims were slain by family members.


43%

However I will point out that a gang members know each other and kill each other all the time. There was case out here a while back where the dad and son were drug dealers and the dad cut the son out of deal so the son whacked him. Gang members and rivals are killing each other all the time (acquaintances).

We also don't want to leave out justifiable homicides either. Often times the police know the person they are putting down. Usually through previous contact. Although these are a single digit percentage.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:36 am 
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Thanks for the new data and comments, fellas!

FWIW, I think this is the new URL for the dead link in the OP: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf. The data is six years old now.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Prevention prevention prevention. Learn to recognize the signs of an abusive relationship and either get out or get counseling before things get violent.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:24 am 
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leadpulaski wrote:
Prevention prevention prevention. Learn to recognize the signs of an abusive relationship and either get out or get counseling before things get violent.

Truth.

National Domestic Violence Hotline: http://www.thehotline.org/

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:34 pm 
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I've been an LEO for over 26 years. People suck, they kill hurt and maim each other over everything from drugs to money to perceived insults. Sometimes they are just evil people. I just read the CT state attorneys report on Sandy Hook. Incredible. So all I can say is be polite, be cordial, but have a plan to kill everyone in the room.

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