Survival of the Richest?

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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MPMalloy
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Survival of the Richest?

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:54 pm

This is an article that I read on Medium, which I find to be an interesting site from time to time.

Survival of the Richest

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Re: Food for Thought

Post by Stercutus » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:40 pm

I have been saying this for years and no one listens.

Most of the rich did not get rich and stay rich by being fools. Some are a little over the top, some are dumb (think ball players who didn't study and heirs where a partner was picked for physical attributes and not brain pan) but most are survivors and will gladly claw their way over your warm body to get off the sinking ship and on to the life raft. And if you get off the life boat is going to be full. Leonardo DiCaprio found that out the hard way. It sure looked like there was enough room up there on the door to me, but nope.

These are the same people that outsourced your last job to a foreign country where a 12 year old makes your shoes for $3 a day, then they complain taxes to pay for your unemployment checks are too high so rather than pay it they borrow the money from your kids.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: Food for Thought

Post by flybynight » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:26 am

Stercutus wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:40 pm
I have been saying this for years and no one listens.

Most of the rich did not get rich and stay rich by being fools. Some are a little over the top, some are dumb (think ball players who didn't study and heirs where a partner was picked for physical attributes and not brain pan) but most are survivors and will gladly claw their way over your warm body to get off the sinking ship and on to the life raft. And if you get off the life boat is going to be full. Leonardo DiCaprio found that out the hard way. It sure looked like there was enough room up there on the door to me, but nope.

These are the same people that outsourced your last job to a foreign country where a 12 year old makes your shoes for $3 a day, then they complain taxes to pay for your unemployment checks are too high so rather than pay it they borrow the money from your kids.
That's what I like about you. You are one cheerfull MF :lol:
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Re: Food for Thought

Post by Asymetryczna » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:43 am

I had read and found that article interesting as well. It would seem that more and more people consider "The Event." One could argue about what "rich" means but his points are valid. More about Rich People, From Glamping to Begging for agua
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by the_alias » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:53 am

"Food for thought" is not an acceptable topic title - it's a bit click bait esque and tells us nothing about what you posted - I renamed it...

This article got a lot of traction across the web.

All I'll say about the people in this article is "eye of a needle" and all that.

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by Asymetryczna » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:12 am

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by raptor » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:53 pm

Interesting post.
I would question the veracity of the article based upon one little point based upon personal experience. Any group that invites such a speaker and pays such a nice fee (~$50,000 -/+) will require a pretty robust non-disclosure agreement written by people paid to make sure he did not write such an article about the speaking engagement. But then what do I know? I am just a guy on the internet and I have never been engaged by such people for such a purpose.


Now I will say as this question I think he was on the right track with this answer.
When the hedge funders asked me the best way to maintain authority over their security forces after “the event,” I suggested that their best bet would be to treat those people really well, right now. They should be engaging with their security staffs as if they were members of their own family.


“Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley.” (Sun Tzu)

“If soldiers are punished before they have grown attached to you, they will not prove submissive;
and, unless submissive, then will be practically useless. If, when the soldiers have become attached
to you, punishments are not enforced, they will still be unless.”(Sun Tzu)

When you ask soldiers (real soldiers) why they are willing to risk their lives for their fellow soldiers, the answer almost always boils down to mutual respect and terms like family, brotherhood, etc. A fighting unit fights for the unit. They bond with each other and discipline is firm, uniform and fair, much like a family.


Good luck with the shock collar and lock on the food stores.
Last edited by raptor on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Food for Thought

Post by raptor » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:57 pm

I am still trying to learn this new forum format. I would normally hit the thanks button for both but we do not seem to have one so..

Thank you both. They are both excellent points.
flybynight wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:26 am
Stercutus wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:40 pm
I have been saying this for years and no one listens.

Most of the rich did not get rich and stay rich by being fools. Some are a little over the top, some are dumb (think ball players who didn't study and heirs where a partner was picked for physical attributes and not brain pan) but most are survivors and will gladly claw their way over your warm body to get off the sinking ship and on to the life raft. And if you get off the life boat is going to be full. Leonardo DiCaprio found that out the hard way. It sure looked like there was enough room up there on the door to me, but nope.

These are the same people that outsourced your last job to a foreign country where a 12 year old makes your shoes for $3 a day, then they complain taxes to pay for your unemployment checks are too high so rather than pay it they borrow the money from your kids.
That's what I like about you. You are one cheerfull MF :lol:

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:38 pm

When you think about the mindset of cut-throat business types in the stereotypical sense, I think a lot comes from the mindset of treating people like an expendable resource.

I think if the SHTF, a lot of people will adopt that competitive "them or me" mindset, I just think the "wealthy" will be early adopters as they live on the brink of it.

Then again, the only superbly wealthy people that I know personally are the most charitable and loyal folks I've ever met. They got where they are due to obsessive drive and hard work.
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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by woodsghost » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:02 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:38 pm

Then again, the only superbly wealthy people that I know personally are the most charitable and loyal folks I've ever met. They got where they are due to obsessive drive and hard work.
There are a lot of people at the bottom who treat others as expendable resources too. And good people at the bottom. Just as there are at the top.

I do think the rich can get disconnected from the rest of the world, and some will get eaten alive in any real disaster. I know and know of many who are wealthy, but can't seem to manage their personal lives or personal relationships and consequently are pretty self-destructive. I see the same at the bottom.

Some percentage of the rich will do fine in a disaster. I don't know what percentage, but as said above, by dint of being good resource managers and often good with people, some better than average percentage will probably rise to the top in a disaster.
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Re: Food for Thought

Post by flybynight » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:16 pm

raptor wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:57 pm
I am still trying to learn this new forum format. I would normally hit the thanks button for both but we do not seem to have one so..

Thank you both. They are both excellent points.
flybynight wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:26 am
Stercutus wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:40 pm
I have been saying this for years and no one listens.

Most of the rich did not get rich and stay rich by being fools. Some are a little over the top, some are dumb (think ball players who didn't study and heirs where a partner was picked for physical attributes and not brain pan) but most are survivors and will gladly claw their way over your warm body to get off the sinking ship and on to the life raft. And if you get off the life boat is going to be full. Leonardo DiCaprio found that out the hard way. It sure looked like there was enough room up there on the door to me, but nope.

These are the same people that outsourced your last job to a foreign country where a 12 year old makes your shoes for $3 a day, then they complain taxes to pay for your unemployment checks are too high so rather than pay it they borrow the money from your kids.
That's what I like about you. You are one cheerfull MF :lol:
I won't miss the thanks button a bit. I was always embarrassed by all the thanks I got for the stupid shit I write when others post actual valuable info
As of now I bet you got me wrong

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:12 pm

There are a lot of people at the bottom who treat others as expendable resources too. And good people at the bottom. Just as there are at the top.
I don't know about good people at the bottom. I deal with the people at the bottom every single day and good ones seem to be few and far between. Unless you mean the working poor and retirees on fixed income. These people are not actually on the bottom though, except maybe temporarily. The bottom rung is mostly homeless drug addicts.

And sure there are good people at the top. But at the end of the day they are all about #1 just like most people. Very, very few rich people put themselves at risk voluntarily for the good of others, less so than the rest of society.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by woodsghost » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:00 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:12 pm
There are a lot of people at the bottom who treat others as expendable resources too. And good people at the bottom. Just as there are at the top.
I don't know about good people at the bottom. I deal with the people at the bottom every single day and good ones seem to be few and far between. Unless you mean the working poor and retirees on fixed income. These people are not actually on the bottom though, except maybe temporarily. The bottom rung is mostly homeless drug addicts.

And sure there are good people at the top. But at the end of the day they are all about #1 just like most people. Very, very few rich people put themselves at risk voluntarily for the good of others, less so than the rest of society.
That is fair. I mostly had in mind people trying to live off of $15k to $22k a year, and seeing most of that eaten up by medical expenses and rent.

For the homeless, I have spent time with some rather good natured gutter punks. I'd say they were very much homeless by choice, and not because of mental illness or drug addiction.

Thinking back I've spent time working with people who lived in some really shitty trailers and had extremely limited incomes. Some of them were good natured and good hearted people. Specifically, the ones who had finally beat their addictions but were still living with the aftermath of 40+ years of bad choices.

On the other hand, at work last week I got to be around while we dealt with Mr. Meth Head, and his Meth Head girlfriend, who are living out of a van and cannot manage to show up sober. They are the most recent example which pops into my head of people who are using others and incredibly self-destructive.

Just what I"m seeing. And I tend to see the world with slightly rose tinted glasses and assume the best of most people. Most of the people I deal with are decent, although plenty are not. And when I worked retail I dealt with a lot of richer assholes. Not the top strata of society, but people in the $120,00 to $300,000 (dual income) range. In working retail, most of the $15k-$22k people were my coworkers, and are still some of the best people I know. The wealthy were a mixed bag, with some being lovely and some just being total garbage.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by JayceSlayn » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:22 am

Everyone is self-preservationist to some degree. Some people are ready to give it all up for the right cause, and others will fight tooth and nail to the bitter end, no matter the odds. If you have a lot of resources, you can look at it two ways: having a lot to give, or having a lot to lose. When you're closer to scraping-by day-to-day, the difference between those two perspectives shrinks.

While admittedly there are many more people on the bottom of the wealth pyramid (and thus more examples by sheer numbers), I think we anecdotally see more people at the bottom of the scale generously helping out their fellow humans, than those at the top of the scale literally giving the shirt off their backs to help another. Even the mega-philanthropists like Bill Gates et al., who try to give away 99% of their wealth before they die, still aren't really going ascetic either - that 1% is still more than most of us will ever make.

There are some notable examples of good social stewardship of the fantastically wealthy, and some that are very ego-centric. I think their trend is to be a bit more protective of their wealth and status than those without the means to secure their position. Wealth and status are enablers to maintain your wealth and status as well.

After the "Event", are you expecting that your neighbor would lend you a cup of sugar, or the guy in the bunker complex down the street? Sure the bunker guy might donate some supplies to keep the community from tearing down their door, but I don't think they'll willingly invite you all in to eat their last cans of food.

EDIT: I don't mean to make it sound like I think the mega-philanthropists are bad either. Giving away 99% of your wealth is bold, and laudable. And I would support anyone who wanted to hold up your portrait as a hero for that. But had you given away 99% of your $50 billion, you'd still be a half-billionare. And had you simply started as being a half-billionare, you could give away 99.99% again before you came close to the median wealth. The fantastically rich simply don't live on the same plane of existence as you and I (unless some of you are secret multiple-lottery winners :D ).
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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by absinthe beginner » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:01 am

Silicon Valley billionaires know what's coming and are getting ready to ride it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1zVAfE0YdA

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:32 pm

I find "Silicon Valley Billionaire" to be a loaded political term full of all kinds of baggage as so many of them these days want to do things to my country that I disagree with. Mostly this is because of the billions of dollars that the Russians have dumped in to Facebook, Twitter, UC Berkeley and others.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by jnathan » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:43 pm

This is tangentially related in that it's related to people in power. In a recent episode of WBUR's Fresh Air, Garrett Graff's book Raven Rock was discussed. The book examines Government plans and programs to preserve itself in the event of various disasters; fascinating stuff.

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:10 pm

I'm kinda gonna go back on my previous post and say something that contradicts it...

Playing with generalizations again, one thing I've noticed about some moderately wealthy people (subdivision, drives audi, pays someone to cut their grass, complains about dog walkers peeing on their mailbox).

I have some distant family members like this, and they tend to meltdown when things don't go their way and they have very limited "life" or "hard" skills. They can't change their oil, can't make a campfire, can't pitch a tent, can't change a flat tire, can't use a hammer or screwdriver, etc. They "demand" others to fix their issues... they are the type that yell at the towtruck driver when they accidentally put radiator fluid in their engine oil.

Generalizations and stereotypes, but it's a different way to look at moderately wealthy folks in how they would do in a collapse/emergency.

"No Starbucks!?!?!?! This is an outrage!!!! Let me speak to the manager!!! You know who my husband is??? Prep-School Child, get in the Escalade, we're taking our business elsewhere!!!!"
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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:14 pm

Upper middle class generalizations? The number of calls for police, fire and rescue in upper middle class neighborhoods is on the order of 1/10 the level of other areas in most suburban areas by population. If the community is gated; 1/20th. Nearly all of the police calls are bogus (you get some runaways cuz life is soooo hard and drugs every now and then), the rescue calls are mostly heart attacks and fires are someone burning lawn waste.

Quite a shift from the shootings, meth lab fires and the crack whore half beat to death by her pimp. Stress their system a little and who knows?
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by raptor » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:53 pm

A quick review of history shows that in general the wealthy, the elite, the power holders generally do not fair well in times of unrest. That is unless they use their resources to flee the country in which the unrest is occurring.
For instance If you look at South and Central America where monarchs reigned and/or dictators took over and ultimately were deposed they did not fair well. The same thing happened all over the world.

There are a few instances where the reigning monarch who was deposed had his descendants regain power (for instance France twice, Spain post Franco) but these are rare.

There is no surprise that the stories you read about are of the people setting up estates in NZ Switzerland and other foreign countries. It is normal for 3rd world dictators to have foreign safe havens (BOL) in other countries.

That said there is also the assumption that the wealth of the people will not be confiscated by their host country during such an event. Again history shows us that generally a host country is not always as welcoming once the SHTF.
In fact I would note this group faces a uniquely set of risks and perils.

My suggestion is rather than worry about what someone else is doing that a smart ZS'er will instead concentrate on the issues they face and how best to deal with them with the resources available to them.

My $.02.
Last edited by raptor on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:09 pm

raptor wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:53 pm
My suggestion is rather than worry about what someone else is doing
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by absinthe beginner » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:22 pm

Survival of the richest? Not so much.

http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/201 ... -much.html

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:52 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:22 pm
Survival of the richest? Not so much.

http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/201 ... -much.html
The author's assumptions may have some flaws.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: Survival of the Richest?

Post by analysis autonomy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:52 pm

Yeah, I mean definitely the rich have a lot more resources when it comes to protection, not just focusing on big ticket risks, like leaving the planet.

They basically can have whatever features they went to make their home into a castle, both from physical and digital threats. I know of individuals who've installed everything from vault style front doors to ballistic glass in their home's windows. They have gates you can't enter in the first place, and guards that will stop you if you try to enter. That's of course in addition to the sophisticated alarm systems and other sensors.

But there are also major downsides to their position as well. They are a target. We are not. And that's a huge difference.

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