The Coming Civil War

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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woodsghost
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by woodsghost » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:52 am

1) Civil War does not necessary equal "all the people fighting." It usually equals "some folks fighting some other folks and people lending aid to one side or the other." 1% vs. 1% can have a civil war that hugely impacts the rest of the country. And if we have 1% vs. 1% vs. 1% vs. 1% vs. 1%, then we have a much bigger problem. Most people in a civil war are not combatants. They are support (willing or unwilling) or simply "wrong place, wrong time."

2) The Communists backed different separatist movements and the Communist Party in different European counties in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's. The IRA and the Basques are two easy examples of people who blew stuff up to make their point. My memory says West Germany had some active groups. Apparently America got to where we had daily bombings in the 70's. I did not realize they were that common.

3) We are already seeing groups consistently targeting police for assassination. The media does report it but does not seem to be making a big deal of it. I suspect this is because they don't want the rest of the nation panicking and reacting and assuming their neighbors are in on the assassinations.

4) Gangs do provide government structure when government is absent. My memory says Haiti has/had places where the gangs are so powerful that the government is/was unable to police them. That meant the government ceased providing social services to those sectors. Gangs then felt they had to step up and provide schools and teachers.

5) Other ways a gang profits from conflict are essentially by taxation and providing services. A gang extracts money in return for not burning your business down and killing your family, so you can move your material through their territory or buy/sell in their territory. A gang also charges for providing security. They might provide protection from other local criminal elements, the police, the terrorists, the military, and they may, in some cases, provide social services. Basically, any current government function, a gang could provide. An obvious additional source of income is establishing a monopoly on selling desired goods like furniture, prostitutes, electronics, drugs, whatever they feel like. Gangs in the Balkans would load semi-trucks with loot and drive it to other countries to sell it.

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DEC/ ... il_war.pdf

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTK ... /28137.pdf

^^^ Good primers on the subject.

And frankly, there is not much difference between a gang, a guerrilla group, and a government.

https://www.jesusradicals.com/uploads/2 ... making.pdf

^^^ Interesting link. The PDF is a good read. I have no idea what the rest of the site is about. I've never bothered to find out. But it is a link to an article by Dr. Charles Tilly. Actually a chapter in a book, I believe. Well worth reading.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:39 am

From the Wikipedia page on Rep. Maxine Waters:
Rodney King verdict and Los Angeles riots

When south-central Los Angeles erupted in riots—in which 58 were killed—after the Rodney King verdict in 1992, Waters gained national attention "when she helped deliver relief supplies in Watts and demanded the resumption of vital services".[26][27] Waters described the riots as a rebellion, saying "If you call it a riot it sounds like it was just a bunch of crazy people who went out and did bad things for no reason. I maintain it was somewhat understandable, if not acceptable."[28] In her view, the violence was "a spontaneous reaction to a lot of injustice." In regards to the looting of Korean-owned stores by local black residents, she said in an interview with KABC radio host Michael Jackson: "There were mothers who took this as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes... They are not crooks
:shock:

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by flybynight » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:42 am

MPMalloy wrote:From the Wikipedia page on Rep. Maxine Waters:
Rodney King verdict and Los Angeles riots

When south-central Los Angeles erupted in riots—in which 58 were killed—after the Rodney King verdict in 1992, Waters gained national attention "when she helped deliver relief supplies in Watts and demanded the resumption of vital services".[26][27] Waters described the riots as a rebellion, saying "If you call it a riot it sounds like it was just a bunch of crazy people who went out and did bad things for no reason. I maintain it was somewhat understandable, if not acceptable."[28] In her view, the violence was "a spontaneous reaction to a lot of injustice." In regards to the looting of Korean-owned stores by local black residents, she said in an interview with KABC radio host Michael Jackson: "There were mothers who took this as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes... They are not crooks
:shock:
I had/have an opposing viewpoint for at least 95% of the rioters. I remember the third night of the riots. We were under curfew, sitting in the living room watching the rioting play out on local tv. They had reporters out trying to interview the looters as they ran out of buildings. They stopped this one guy and asked him " are you doing this because of the Rodney King verdict?" The guy got a big grin on his face and looked right into the camera and said " Hey Grandma we couldn't find you any shoes but we got some really good stuff " :shock: evidently even grandma had a sent them out with a loot list :roll:
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by MacWa77ace » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:12 pm

flybynight wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:From the Wikipedia page on Rep. Maxine Waters:
Rodney King verdict and Los Angeles riots

When south-central Los Angeles erupted in riots—in which 58 were killed—after the Rodney King verdict in 1992, Waters gained national attention "when she helped deliver relief supplies in Watts and demanded the resumption of vital services".[26][27] Waters described the riots as a rebellion, saying "If you call it a riot it sounds like it was just a bunch of crazy people who went out and did bad things for no reason. I maintain it was somewhat understandable, if not acceptable."[28] In her view, the violence was "a spontaneous reaction to a lot of injustice." In regards to the looting of Korean-owned stores by local black residents, she said in an interview with KABC radio host Michael Jackson: "There were mothers who took this as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes... They are not crooks
:shock:
I had/have an opposing viewpoint for at least 95% of the rioters. I remember the third night of the riots. We were under curfew, sitting in the living room watching the rioting play out on local tv. They had reporters out trying to interview the looters as they ran out of buildings. They stopped this one guy and asked him " are you doing this because of the Rodney King verdict?" The guy got a big grin on his face and looked right into the camera and said " Hey Grandma we couldn't find you any shoes but we got some really good stuff " :shock: evidently even grandma had a sent them out with a loot list :roll:

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by raptor » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:31 pm

This is a very interesting thread about a difficult subject for our forum.

Please can we get away from what the "politician/useless 'celebrity" du jour who has diarrhea of the mouth"(other wise known as "PUCDJWHDOTM"") is saying and go back towards the bounds of the forum where we discuss preparations and how to deal with the ramification of things going sideways.

To that end I would note that this poll shows that many people in the US seem to share the concerns of posters to this forum. Note there are politics at this link that I (and ZS) neither endorse nor condemn.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... ikely_soon


After reading many of the thoughtful posts I will offer my opinions. These are opinions not fact.
1. There is a 99% probability that more violence is likely to occur. It has occurred and will continue to occur. Politics in the US has always been a contact "sport". I offer Hamilton and Burr as my proof.

2. A Civil War (CW2) should it erupt, is not likely to remotely look like the one that ended in 1865. The "North South" type divide is not a current divide. In fact based upon the poll mentioned above, "one-out-of-three Americans didn’t even know when that cataclysmic conflict took place".

3. A CW2 if it occurs is more likely to look like either a Rwanda or a Northern Ireland. Almost a quasi-religious conflict in that many of the extremists seem to be as firm in their opinions/beliefs and the superiority of their opinions/beliefs over those of the opposition as would a radical fundamentalist believer (of any belief system) to extent that they are both willing kill the "heretics"(for lack of a better term) .

4. The so called red/blue conflict is not likely to be the dividing line. There are many factions within this simplistic breakdown that render it not useful.

5. The 24 hour news cycle with the mantra of "if it bleeds, it leads" helps distort the significance of events in away that promotes that very same quest for clicks.

6. Our competition (BRIC nations & EU) will prosper by our misfortune. It therefore is in their best interest for the US to experience issues. That said with the exception of China none are poised to remove the USD as the reserve currency of the world unless there is a CW2.

7. In the event of a real CW2 the US markets and USD will collapse and it will make the Great depression seem like good times.

8. I do not think a real CW2 is likely. It is certainly possible. As I noted the simple fact that is group of Zs'ers is not shouting about tin foil hats is sobering to me as are the above poll numbers.

That said, I also agree that depending upon the exact definition of a Civil War, we actually may be in a low level one right now.

In terms of preparations for a true CW2 your preps should be dependent upon the way the CW2 develops.

The version of the CW2 that takes the form of a Rwanda type event is truly a scary proposition. In this instance the numerical majority ("true believers") within areas would slay the numerical minority ("heretics") with very little notice and/or warning. In other areas the "heretics would be in the majority and then slay the numerical minority "true believers" in retaliation. This violence may take the form of bombings,IED or mass riots. I really like to believe that US citizens are not likely to engage in this type of genocidal activity.

That leaves the example of Northern Ireland model where there was increasing self segregation of the various factions and occasional large scale acts of violence (on the scale of the protests in January of 2017) with limited damage and point attacks against selected soft targets (like the shooting of congressmen in 2017) by extremist factions. The result would be a lot of animosity but not genocide.

My $.02.
Last edited by raptor on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:38 pm

I was not aware of such a poll. I guess not possible since it came out today but I don't find it shocking either.

I am going to have to agree with nearly everything that Raptor posted, especially the first three lines. If anyone wants to discuss something off line hit me up on PMs as several have already.

I think it would be more like Ireland than Rwanda if it ever came to deep division but I still can't figure out a where a fracture line would lie. Rwanda was tribal, Ireland Religious. Strife in the US seems to be mostly political fueled by competitor nations.

I don't think the EU would prosper from deep unrest and insurgency in the US. If the US markets crashed they would be part of the initial fallout and then faced with the prospect of completely realigning their economic model. There is a great deal of uncertainty there. China would also suffer badly especially in the initial crash but probably recover much more quickly.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:37 pm

Since there are no thumbs up, I will agree with the IRA model of warfare as opposed to others being MOST likely in the USA.

I think my personal definition of Civil War may differ... I don't really consider tribalism and factions after a catastrophic (market crash, natural disaster, aliens, global EMP, nuclear war, etc) event to be "civil war" as much as I would put it into total breakdown of society.

Not textbook or backed by anything other than opinion/perspective, I would define Civil War as warfare between different ideologies with some resemblance of structure or a rebelling against current structure.

I guess...
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by raptor » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:07 pm

Stercutus wrote: I think it would be more like Ireland than Rwanda if it ever came to deep division but I still can't figure out a where a fracture line would lie. Rwanda was tribal, Ireland Religious.
That is the weird thing about it. The emotions almost seem religious in nature but the "religion" has no canon and no "church". Maybe social media is the "church" but all ides use it.
It is also tribal in that similar beliefs attract similar people, but again the culture, markings, traditions, etc that typically define a tribe are not present. There are buzzwords and slang but these are frequently used by the opposing "tribes" in a different way.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:18 pm

Makes it tougher to define the problem when you can't define the actors well. The ACW was a split along geographic lines but the lines were drawn from economics and economies. This isn't really an economic issue. More like certain groups have certain agendas (on all sides) they want to push and the question is how far are the willing to go to do it?
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:22 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:Not textbook or backed by anything other than opinion/perspective, I would define Civil War as warfare between different ideologies with some resemblance of structure or a rebelling against current structure.
Here is the definition from Merriam Webster:
Definition of civil war: A war between opposing groups of citizens of the same country
I could see it as more of like The Troubles, in so far as the violence would play out. It's a pretty long article, in part because it went on for so long. Irish Republicanism is a good part of the history of Ireland.

I see terrorism. Politically-motivated terrorism. A question that I have is would those who chose to engage in the violence, take on the Government, in order to 'take over' or effect some kind of policy change? That might end up being an Insurrection or a Rebellion.

Insurrection: A limited form of rebellion, an armed uprising.

Rebellion

Revolution

Subversion

Sedition

Civil War

I am trying to suss all of this out, so I can decide on a more fleshed-out course of action, for my physical safety. And my cat. I have Renter's for everything else. I do remember that most HO policy do not cover loss to due "a change, or an attempt to change, the Government". Actually, there are a number of things that HO policies don't cover.

now I have that song stuck in my head... :crazy: :rofl: :clownshoes:

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:19 pm

raptor wrote:
Stercutus wrote: I think it would be more like Ireland than Rwanda if it ever came to deep division but I still can't figure out a where a fracture line would lie. Rwanda was tribal, Ireland Religious.
That is the weird thing about it. The emotions almost seem religious in nature but the "religion" has no canon and no "church". Maybe social media is the "church" but all ides use it.
It is also tribal in that similar beliefs attract similar people, but again the culture, markings, traditions, etc that typically define a tribe are not present. There are buzzwords and slang but these are frequently used by the opposing "tribes" in a different way.
Some would argue race or ethnicity and there are quite few racial Supremacist groups and ethnically defined groups out there but they are far from homogeneous and don't get along with each other. All of them seem to want to institute a form of authoritarian socialism with themselves at the top of the food chain.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by raptor » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:26 pm

Stercutus wrote:
raptor wrote:
Stercutus wrote: I think it would be more like Ireland than Rwanda if it ever came to deep division but I still can't figure out a where a fracture line would lie. Rwanda was tribal, Ireland Religious.
That is the weird thing about it. The emotions almost seem religious in nature but the "religion" has no canon and no "church". Maybe social media is the "church" but all ides use it.
It is also tribal in that similar beliefs attract similar people, but again the culture, markings, traditions, etc that typically define a tribe are not present. There are buzzwords and slang but these are frequently used by the opposing "tribes" in a different way.
Some would argue race or ethnicity and there are quite few racial Supremacist groups and ethnically defined groups out there but they are far from homogeneous and don't get along with each other. All of them seem to want to institute a form of authoritarian socialism with themselves at the top of the food chain.

It s funny but all of the anarchists assume they will be top of the food chain...kinda like the Walmart Thread. :wink:

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by absinthe beginner » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:59 pm

Am seeing more "Civil War" headlines and mention in public discourse. A new poll claims that 31% of Americans predict a civil war.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... -civil-war

The division in the United States that has escalated into the organized harassment of presidential aides has six in 10 worried about the violence from anti-Trump advocates and nearly a third fearing it will end in civil war.

The latest survey from Rasmussen Reports found that 59 percent of all voters “are concerned that those opposed to President Trump’s policies will resort to violence.”

And, added Rasmussen, 31 percent believe “it’s likely that the United States will experience a second civil war sometime in the next five years.”

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by woodsghost » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:02 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:Am seeing more "Civil War" headlines and mention in public discourse. A new poll claims that 31% of Americans predict a civil war.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... -civil-war

The division in the United States that has escalated into the organized harassment of presidential aides has six in 10 worried about the violence from anti-Trump advocates and nearly a third fearing it will end in civil war.

The latest survey from Rasmussen Reports found that 59 percent of all voters “are concerned that those opposed to President Trump’s policies will resort to violence.”

And, added Rasmussen, 31 percent believe “it’s likely that the United States will experience a second civil war sometime in the next five years.”
Popular opinion does not = Truth.

That said, better to be prepared. But we are on this site precisely because we often don't swim in the same waters "public opinion" swims in.

I do think vocalizing the fear will help people moderate themselves. Assuming they are rational enough to not want war. The problem comes if people start thinking war is inevitable.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by the_alias » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:59 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:Am seeing more "Civil War" headlines and mention in public discourse. A new poll claims that 31% of Americans predict a civil war.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... -civil-war

The division in the United States that has escalated into the organized harassment of presidential aides has six in 10 worried about the violence from anti-Trump advocates and nearly a third fearing it will end in civil war.

The latest survey from Rasmussen Reports found that 59 percent of all voters “are concerned that those opposed to President Trump’s policies will resort to violence.”

And, added Rasmussen, 31 percent believe “it’s likely that the United States will experience a second civil war sometime in the next five years.”
Anyone remember the guy who tried to gun down Republican's on a baseball field not so long ago in DC...
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by absinthe beginner » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:12 pm

I could see it as more of like The Troubles, in so far as the violence would play out. It's a pretty long article, in part because it went on for so long. Irish Republicanism is a good part of the history of Ireland.
Personally, I think we should be talking about positive actions that we as individuals can do to PREVENT these kinds of horrific scenarios from ever coming to pass.

I would like to think there's enough people of goodwill and sanity left in this country that the lunatic fringe on either side, plus the criminals and opportunists who would quickly pile on, can check the extremists and handle our problems without a civil conflict that would be catastrophic for us as a nation, and as citizens of this country.

Perception should not be allowed to snowball into reality.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... ikely_soon

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by woodsghost » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:00 am

absinthe beginner wrote:
I could see it as more of like The Troubles, in so far as the violence would play out. It's a pretty long article, in part because it went on for so long. Irish Republicanism is a good part of the history of Ireland.
Personally, I think we should be talking about positive actions that we as individuals can do to PREVENT these kinds of horrific scenarios from ever coming to pass.

I would like to think there's enough people of goodwill and sanity left in this country that the lunatic fringe on either side, plus the criminals and opportunists who would quickly pile on, can check the extremists and handle our problems without a civil conflict that would be catastrophic for us as a nation, and as citizens of this country.

Perception should not be allowed to snowball into reality.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... ikely_soon

^^^ I think this is important.

I think we are facing 2 issues. 1) There is a sense of hopelessness and fear among some. There is a sense that social and political progress has been lost. These people need an outlet. I think they need to learn that patience is a virtue. Also, the Right has opened the door, in my view, to greater action at the State level. I think they keep pushing power from the Federal government to the States. Given the diversity of our country, I think that is wise. But those who need to make a difference need to work at the State level and see their changes happen there. And expectations need to change. Instead of looking to achieve progress in 5 years, they need to look at 25-40 years as a time fame for larger social changes.

2) A key ingredient of the Balkans conflict, and many other conflicts, is that people re-hash grievances. They keep the anger alive and fresh (often spanning hundreds of years). They have a whole list they repeat and focus on, and this creates that bad blood. Especially if both sides build up those grievances. By choosing not to forget them, by keeping the old grievances fresh and repeating them every chance we get, we magnify each new grievance. We are in a tough time, with a lot of ugly all around. Most of it is words, but sometimes it has turned into bullets. If we dwell on hurt, pain, and injustice we will self-destruct both as individuals and as a Nation. If we choose to let things go in the name of a better future we can make some progress.

My $.05

EDIT:

A key here is that all wins and losses are temporary. The key is to keep playing the game and changing strategy. Those who are down today are up tomorrow, if they adapt. Yes, one team seems to have scored a bunch of points, but this is a game with no time limit, so the score just keeps going up and it simply takes work and time to close the gap in the score. Nothing is "forever," unless you stop playing the game.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by Stercutus » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:49 am

A key ingredient of the Balkans conflict, and many other conflicts, is that people re-hash grievances. They keep the anger alive and fresh (often spanning hundreds of years).
Not in America. It only took 130 years for most people to get over the American Civil War. There are still a few holdouts but they are rare. Most of the other internal conflicts people moved on.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by the_alias » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:12 am

Been away for a few days and see this thread has done quite well.

A good website to read about some of the issues here is John Robb's http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/

This from one of his more recent posts:
In the last segment, we touched on something I haven't written much about yet: the potential for widespread civil conflict in the US and how that impacts our thinking on resilience.

Why so pessimistic? It's becoming clear that the US doesn't have a shared narrative anymore. A narrative, combined with rituals and traditions, that provides us with us the basis of fictive kinship.

A kinship, not based on DNA, that allows us to trust each other rather than as strangers/enemies.
A shared understanding of moral and ethical conduct (the soft elements that make it possible for a legal and regulatory system to work).
An understanding that we are better off together than apart.
Where did our fictive kinship go?

We killed it. We didn't alter it, adapt it, or evolve it. We strangled it and the rising sociopolitical incoherence we are seeing is the result.

The big question is whether we can survive the future without it? I suspect the answer to that is more no than yes. If that's true, it makes civil collapse a very viable future.
Also this is a bit of a worrying development:

https://twitter.com/HCSOTexas/status/10 ... 20833?s=19
The problem comes if people start thinking war is inevitable.
Many of the Great Powers before WW1 felt this way...
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by Stercutus » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:52 pm

I think that captures what I see better than I can.

I think part of this is the other shoe dropping post 9/11. After 9/11 Americans become more overtly patriotic and somewhat more nationalistic. This was a huge reversal of trends through the 90s where globalism surged after the fall of communism in Europe and Russia. Globalism never went away.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by woodsghost » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:35 pm

the_alias wrote:
The problem comes if people start thinking war is inevitable.
Many of the Great Powers before WW1 felt this way...
It is tempting to make a parallel, but it is apples to oranges.

WW1 was due, in part, to war machines which needed to be set in motion and would take a set amount of time to get on the battle field. The advantage in a conflict would go to whomever got their army on the battlefield first.

A civil war in America, I think, would give the moral high ground and the advantage to whomever showed the most restraint and acted last. Or acted after sufficient provocation. I could be wrong, but I think whichever side was seen as "starting it all" would have a real uphill battle to gain any public support to their cause. But then again, it does not take a large number of people to make a stink of themselves and really challenge a country. But hopefully it would not be difficult to gather intelligence on a relatively unpopular group (whichever group is seen as "starting all this").
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:44 pm

woodsghost wrote:A civil war in America, I think, would give the moral high ground and the advantage to whomever showed the most restraint and acted last. Or acted after sufficient provocation. I could be wrong, but I think whichever side was seen as "starting it all" would have a real uphill battle to gain any public support to their cause. But then again, it does not take a large number of people to make a stink of themselves and really challenge a country. But hopefully it would not be difficult to gather intelligence on a relatively unpopular group (whichever group is seen as "starting all this").
Good point.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by woodsghost » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:49 pm

I'm just going to put it out there: this thread is exclusively focused on the US. The European Union countries could be having this conversation too. Depending on how some of their economic and immigration issues fall, things could get interesting over there too.

It is an interesting world right now.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by absinthe beginner » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:28 am

I'm seeing more and more "How to survive civil unrest" articles on prepper-themed sites. Of course there's always a marketing angle.

https://www.theorganicprepper.com/survive-civil-unrest/

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