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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Last year, at the heyday of the height of the gas price hikes I decided I needed to really make gas storage a priority. So I purchased 4 GI style metal gas cans from Diesel Joe, or was it Generator Joe? I forgot. But either way I purchased the cans as well a spout. These jerry cans were of european origin. I also purchased one of those plastic deck/patio boxes to store the gas in the rear of my yard. I did not want to store 20 gallons of fuel in my garage. When the gas cans arrived, they were used with very little rust. It looked like the interiors were painted, but Im not sure if thats just they way they are made. Generator Joes has been around so I decided to put some trust in their product. First I washed the cans out with some gasoline. The insides were pretty clean. I quickly found out that one of the cans did not seal properly and decided not to fill that one can. That left me with three. I then filled them up and added fuel stablizer. I had expected to rotate the gas within the year, but no later than August 2009.

Around that time my lawn tractor became useable and I hired a landscaper to cut my grass. I had planned to rotate the gas by using it in my law tractor. Without the need of the tractor the stored gas remained unused. The cans remained in the deck box for a year, and went thru winter snow and plenty of rain in June.

Fast forward to Aug 2009. I remembered I needed to rotate the gas but procrastinated. Now in Sept I was concerned that the gas may not be good enough to put into my car. But I was unable to figure out how to dispose of the gas without creating an environmental disaster.
I decided to try one 5 gallon can of fuel. When I opened the storage box the first thing I noticed was that there was condensation on the gas cans that were filled. The empty can had no condensation. When I took the cans out, I noticed rust had accumilated on the bottle of the cans as well as on the floor of the storage box. Perhaps if I place some wood slats in the bottom of the box, it will allow air to circulate under the cans so rust will less likely. Perhaps a large bag of desicants (spelled wrong I assume) in the deck box will also help.

When I went to put gas in my car, I put the gas spout, which I purchased along with the cans, on the cans and tried to put the gas in my car. The seal between the spout and gas can allowed more gas to spill on to my driveway than gas going into my gas tank. I then had to transfer the gas from the cans, without use of the Generator Joe spout, into one of my 1.5 gallon red plastic gas containers. The gas container, once filled, was then emptied into my car's gas tank. So the refueling operation became a two stage project. Filling a smaller gas can first, then filling the car. I made sure I had at least half a tank of fresh gas in the car before I added the 1yr+ gas. I kept my fingers crossed. So far, after 2 days of driving, no problems. As I had poured the gas, the fuel looked pretty clean.

So, lessons learned. used gas cans can have bad seals. Spouts can have bad seals. Fuel stablizer is a good thing. Transfering gas from those jerry cans into car's gas tank doesn't work too well, not for me anyway. Proper maintence is required for those cans. Check for signs of rust at least monthy. I GI ed, the cans and removed the rust with WD40 and steel wool. Having the more civilian friendly plastic gas containers with civilian spouts is a must. And of course, don't wait the entire year to rotate gas.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Damn good post. I'm really surprised that the cans rusted that fast. I too thought about the GI style metal gas cans too but apparently will be going to with the good old red plastic now.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Great post thanks for sharing.

Gasoline with fuel stabilizer should have a useful life of at least 1 year assuming the can is sealed well. However you are wise to mix it 50/50 with "fresh" gasoline.

Two tips add the Stabil (or equivilent) before you fill the can since that will ensure that it mixes with the fuel as you fill up. Then leave the can open for about an hour for the fuel temperature to stabilize with ambient air temperature. If it is a hot day the fuel coming from the underground tank will be cooler and the fuel will expand. This will pressurize the tank and result in a bulge in the tank.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:55 pm 
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this has probably been answered a million times but.....

how long can you leave gas in those plastic jugs?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:04 pm 
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airexurb wrote:
this has probably been answered a million times but.....

how long can you leave gas in those plastic jugs?


The useful life of gas in metal or plastic cans are the same as long as they are sealed tight. There have been posts here of people using 2 & 3 year old gas with stabilizer in it without problems.

Chevron had a posting on their web site that said the useful life of gasoline was 1 year.

I use an alternate system whereby I rotate the stock 1/3rd every month and do not use stabil. Thus my gas stock is no more than 90 days and I have not had any issues.

Note: Usual cautions and disclaimers about storing large quantities of flammable liquids around your house and how if you are not careful you may burn you and your house down. YMMV, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:22 pm 
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The two step process is not needed. Instead of buying a spout, buy a small hand pump. I'd recommend a hand crank one instead of the hand pump kind. A hardware or farm store should have one. It will save you the hassle of having to try and lift the metal jerry can + several gallons of gas.

Hope that helps everyone.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:26 pm 
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I had the same problem with the spouts. :( I ended just getting a funnel.

I also fill my car from the cans every time, then I refill the cans. That way the gas is always fresh. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:09 pm 
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The rust might have been from condensation inside the yardbox. Raising the cans up off the floor might be a good plan. You can probably do it with a grid of 2x4's.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:23 pm 
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How long does kerosene stay good foor? How do you properly dispose of 5 gallons of kerosene?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:30 pm 
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razi wrote:
The rust might have been from condensation inside the yardbox. Raising the cans up off the floor might be a good plan. You can probably do it with a grid of 2x4's.

You could also throw some chalk sticks in there. Chalk adsorbs moisture very well.

Nechro wrote:
How long does kerosene stay good foor? How do you properly dispose of 5 gallons of kerosene?

I have wonder that too. We have a local dump here, so I can ask the guy what the proper way of disposal is.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:41 pm 
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Nechro wrote:
How long does kerosene stay good foor? How do you properly dispose of 5 gallons of kerosene?


A highway flare and a pile of brush to be disposed of?

Ice

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:46 pm 
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I bought a motorcycle that had a full tank of gas and hadn't been started in over three years. After new plugs and a new battery, it started and ran on the old gas. (not perfect, but rideable) I don't know if there was Stabil in the gas or not. It ran better with fresh gas though. the bike had a plastic tank.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:52 pm 
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A few things, I've had gasoline stored using Stabil and Pri-G for over two years and only a slight knocking occurs with the gasoline that was 2.5 years old (in the plastic gas cans) - it stopped when I added a bottle of STP fuel treatment to it. There was NO difference with the metal jerry fuel cans I noticed.

The flex spouts suck on both the plastic and metal cans, no and's ifs or buts about it, keep one of the larger sized funnels found at Wallyworld with the fuel cans or keep a small hand pump siphon pump with them. By raising the can above the gas tank inlet you just have to get it running and it'll flow by itself (if using the pump).

You need to raise the cans off the ground otherwise they'll rust just by condensation from the temp swings, even just putting a 1/8th of a inch up, it lets air circulate enough not to cause rusting. I've found out that the plastic fuel can's expand and contract far more and release the butane that's in gasoline far quicker then the metal cans - so rotate those out quicker - don't bother putting Stabil or Pri-G into plastic cans, they'll evaporate out. I've left one brand new plastic 'can' alone and over the summer it evaporated 1/3 of the gas that was in there.


To who asked about disposing of kerosene, you can use it as varnish to clean paint brushes, use it in oil lamps - unless the stuff is full of water - cloudy, full of algae/crud , the shelf life is a minimum of 10 years. Heck, maybe just give it to one of your preparedness buds to use (shrug).

This is just what has worked with me, I've only been doing this since about 1998...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:52 pm 
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The thing about old gasoline, diesel and kerosene is that even very old fuel as long as you filter it you can blend it with "fresh" fuel and it will be quite usable. The older the fuel, the more blending you need to do. So for instance, after filtering it, you may want to blend a ratio of 4 to 10 to 1 fresh fuel to old fuel.

Also as it relates to kerosene (or any fuel), if you intend to use the fuel as lamp fuel or heater fuel old kerosene will burn very nicely. The aromatics and perfumes may be off and it may smoke more but it will still generate light & /or BTUs in a lamp or heater (assuming there is no water or crud in it). Kerosene (& used motor oil) will also burn nicely in a diesel engine. Just filter the old fuel first.

As for disposal I would bring it to a local fuel jobber and give it to him. He will likely just filter it and dump your 10 gallons of kerosene in the 50,000 gallon bulk kerosene tank and make it "new" again by blending it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:28 pm 
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Tonto wrote:
A few things, I've had gasoline stored using Stabil and Pri-G for over two years and only a slight knocking occurs with the gasoline that was 2.5 years old (in the plastic gas cans) - it stopped when I added a bottle of STP fuel treatment to it. There was NO difference with the metal jerry fuel cans I noticed.

The flex spouts suck on both the plastic and metal cans, no and's ifs or buts about it, keep one of the larger sized funnels found at Wallyworld with the fuel cans or keep a small hand pump siphon pump with them. By raising the can above the gas tank inlet you just have to get it running and it'll flow by itself (if using the pump).

You need to raise the cans off the ground otherwise they'll rust just by condensation from the temp swings, even just putting a 1/8th of a inch up, it lets air circulate enough not to cause rusting. I've found out that the plastic fuel can's expand and contract far more and release the butane that's in gasoline far quicker then the metal cans - so rotate those out quicker - don't bother putting Stabil or Pri-G into plastic cans, they'll evaporate out. I've left one brand new plastic 'can' alone and over the summer it evaporated 1/3 of the gas that was in there.
To who asked about disposing of kerosene, you can use it as varnish to clean paint brushes, use it in oil lamps - unless the stuff is full of water - cloudy, full of algae/crud , the shelf life is a minimum of 10 years. Heck, maybe just give it to one of your preparedness buds to use (shrug).

This is just what has worked with me, I've only been doing this since about 1998...


Yeah this is a headache I have with these plastic jugs. I leave mine in a storage shed 4 with gas and 4 with diesel. In the 100`+ heat this summer it sure made me nervous. These new cans come with a pressure release valve. Every couple of weeks I would go out there and release the pressure. I tend to rotate them every 2-3 months. I'll take one and fill up the vehicle and then refill it and move it to the back of the line. But I always mix it with a full tanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:56 pm 
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I bought one of these safety cans 2 years ago:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004 ... 0JRQD7SQ80

It holds 5 gallons, and the funnel works pretty well (no double-transfer required). I have rotated 3 or 4 rounds of gas in those 2 years. Works very well, with minimal spillage. $40 is a bit pricey for a gas can, but it beats spilling your gas everywhere (especially if you really need that gas some day). And it seems solidly built.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:18 pm 
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Does anyone have any experience rotating premium gasoline? My car cant take regular or medium, and I'm pretty nervous about putting year-old gas in my car.

TIA

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:53 pm 
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You have condensation and rust on the cans because there is not enough air circulation inside the plastic bin you are storing the containers in. Either do something to improve air flow (drill holes?) or do what I do, put down a couple of concrete blocks, lay 2x4's across the top as rails, set your gas cans on the 2x4 rails, cover with a tarp. Tie down or bungee the sides so it is a snug fit, but leave the bottom open. That's right, you want tarp on all sides but bottom open. I recommend this be in a shady location. That will give you plenty of "vent" and air circulation room. I've been doing this for the past 3 years using plastic cans only. I've never seen any condensation on them and the gas has always been fine. It gets treated with Sta-bil when filled and mixed with fresh gas when rotated into our vehicles. Some of this has been over the 1 year mark, I think in one case it was 18 months or more. No difference in how the vehicles operated and both continue to pass California emissions testing.

PS The nozzles that come with the cans are crap. Give it up, use a funnel. OBTW my plastic cans do not "evaporate" if yours do, they are cheapies or you do not have a good seal on the cap. Mine are walmart specials (6 gallon) and they all still hisssss when I undo the cap and appear to be full up, even in 100+ degree weather in the summers and sitting for 18 months.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:00 pm 
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MaxRite wrote:
Does anyone have any experience rotating premium gasoline? My car cant take regular or medium, and I'm pretty nervous about putting year-old gas in my car.
TIA


92+ octane fuel has the same life span as 87 octane. The octane does not diminish with age the gasoline breaks down into its basic parts. It oxidizes for want of a better term.

If you are worried about it, rotate the gas sooner. Just curious, your car does not have an onboard computer that automatically adjusts the spark to compensate for gasoline grade.

I also have a Premium Only fuel vehicle but it runs on 87 octane albeit with a performance penalty since the on board computer adjusts the engine accordingly.

A link to the Chevron Gasoline fuel storage technical bulletin regarding octane.

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuel ... oline.aspx

Storage, including storage involving gum formation, does not change the bulk properties and most of the performance characteristics of gasoline (excluding the characteristics affected by the gum itself). For example, storage does not change a gasoline's anti-knock index (octane) or energy content.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:36 pm 
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Helpful thread, I have left over gasoline from last year, I was wondering how long it would be good for. It's in plastic cans and in my garage.
I guess I can find a way to store them away from the house, it gets 100 degrees in the summer here too, so good to know that's possible.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Ditch the nozzles / funnels get a Super Siphon.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Being one of my other hobbies is working on cars, I have routinely left cars sit for years with fuel in the while I work on this or that. They have always started without any sort of prep.

One car was left outside in the driveway for about a year, and the tank took on some water. It was a Jag with the goofy top mounted fill tube. I did need to bleed off some gas (water sinks in gas) but then it was fine and started right up.
We also have a WWII Jeep that sat for about 8 years and started after a battery charge.

I've never used gas stabilizers and don't ever plan too.
FWIW

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:23 pm 
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this is why the US military went to those heavy plastic jerry cans. better seals and no rust. also put your yard box up on 4x4's and drill a small drain hole in the bottom.
and octane does depleat over time. yes, it does... 92 octane after 6 months is like 89, and once it starts to varnish it sucks. i can't count how many customers bikes have been through my shops that would'nt start or run because they sat all winter. all i do is remove and break down the carb, clean it out, put it back on, drain the tank, and add fresh gas and presto... it's like magic.
if your going to store power equipment for more than a few months add stabil or drain everything. the ability to store fuel long tern is nice to know, but try to rotate out every six months until you have to store longer.
also, if your metal cans are not coated inside try POR-15. it's a hard coating that is sooo much better than KREAM.
and never buy a used jerry spout. those rubber ring seals wear out so fast it's stupid. spent the extra money for a new one.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:39 pm 
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nacho wrote:


Now I know where the gas out of my rental car went. Great! :wink:

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