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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:35 pm 
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Back to watching China's activities of interest or concern.....

Just like the South China Sea issues, competition for resources on land are also a flash point

This Could Be the Surprising Spark for Asia’s Next Big Mega War

Asia has less fresh water per capita than any other continent, and it is already facing a water crisis that, according to an MIT study, will continue to intensify, with severe water shortages expected by 2050. At a time of widespread geopolitical discord, competition over freshwater resources could emerge as a serious threat to long-term peace and stability in Asia.

Already, the battle is underway, with China as the main aggressor.....


Full article ---> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... -war-18550

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:28 am 
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Why the World Should Fear a 'Thucydidean' China

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why ... hina-18705

“We don’t care about your stupid FONOPs.” That’s what a group of retired People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) officers told an American interlocutor recently. They referred, of course, to the “freedom-of-navigation” patrols the U.S. Navy has undertaken in the South China Sea of late. Most recently the destroyer USS Decatur mounted a challenge in the Paracel Islands. But if not FONOPs, what does get Chinese blood pumping? “We care about our ability to project power,” quoth the doughty seafarers. “Law is only as good as it can be enforced.”

How refreshingly Thucydidean! Or, more precisely, how refreshingly Athenian. Odd, isn’t it, how politics makes strange bedfellows? And few bedfellows could be stranger than the compact democratic city-state from Greek antiquity and the sprawling one-party authoritarian state that is contemporary China. But however radically they differ in domestic rule, classical Athens and present-day China operate from similar principles in the international realm.


full article at link

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:32 pm 
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teotwaki wrote:
Langenator wrote:
Assuming, of course, that their economy stays far enough out of the crapper to allow the Party to retain its hold on power.


They just let a few 100 million people starve in order to keep the military budget intact. It will be the Great leap Forward into the grave pit.




One thing a person from the east told me that I have never forgotten. We were on an airplane seated together for about 4 hours. He was from asia but had been working in the US for quite some time... but traveled home about once a year to visit family there. I asked him, what did he find to be the biggest cultural difference? He surprised me with his reply. He said, you value life here... if someone causes an upset, let's say, standing in a public market threatening to kill himself, the whole place gets evacuated, police come and try to negotiate with him, ambulance crews are standing by to take him for medical (and likely psychological) treatment. The whole thing drags on for hours until it is ultimately resolved and life goes on again. In the east, same guy, same situation, but when the cops show up, they just shoot the guy, write the report, and life goes on. "Save him"? Ain't nobody got time fo dat, apparently. Buildings collapse or burn down due to shoddy workmanship or faulty materials... it's sad for family and friends of those involved, but hey, that's the cost of doing business, and life goes on. That "cheapness" of life explanation was an eye-opener for me. In countries like India and China, people are a commodity, not "each one a special, unique irreplaceable individual snowflake". They're replaceable, and in most ways that count, interchangeable, at least in the common view.

That's something I think it's important to keep in mind when dealing with asian societies. Their views on the sanctity of life are way different than ours in the west.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:23 pm 
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Don't believe everything you hear, see or read.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
Don't believe everything you hear, see or read.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:57 pm 
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I once watched an Asian family mourn the loss of a child for their entire life. Saying, for instance, that "one thing to keep in mind about Asian societies" is that "their views on the sanctity of life are way different than ours..." is just a deplorable generalization based on one guy you happened to sit by for one plane ride. My inner mind screamed, "Kwatz!"

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:46 pm 
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Is there a distinction between a family mourning a loved one and the communist government killing millions because of disastrous policies? Great Leap Forward, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:54 pm 
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Funny thing - there isn't just one China, nor one Chinese community.

Developing mainland is a lot different than HK, Taiwain, or us bunch of global expats.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:19 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
I once watched an Asian family mourn the loss of a child for their entire life. Saying, for instance, that "one thing to keep in mind about Asian societies" is that "their views on the sanctity of life are way different than ours..." is just a deplorable generalization based on one guy you happened to sit by for one plane ride. My inner mind screamed, "Kwatz!"


You are correct, it is a generalization, very much akin to the "ugly American" generalization. It's true enough of the time that there's a word for it.

Mind you, my acquaintence never said that is how people feel about their own family and friends. But about "people in general" that are not connected to them in any way.

We've all seen the articles about how accidents where pedestrians are hit by cars, in the east, frequently end up as fatalities because the driver, not wishing to pay lifelong support for the person they've hit, will back over the victim repeatedly until they are certain they are dead, so they only have to pay the family for killing the person "accidentally".

Driven to Kill: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09/why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html
Quote:
It seems like a crazy urban legend: In China, drivers who have injured pedestrians will sometimes then try to kill them. And yet not only is it true, it’s fairly common; security cameras have regularly captured drivers driving back and forth on top of victims to make sure that they are dead. The Chinese language even has an adage for the phenomenon: “It is better to hit to kill than to hit and injure.”

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“Double-hit cases” have been around for decades. I first heard of the “hit-to-kill” phenomenon in Taiwan in the mid-1990s when I was working there as an English teacher. A fellow teacher would drive us to classes. After one near-miss of a motorcyclist, he said, “If I hit someone, I’ll hit him again and make sure he’s dead.” Enjoying my shock, he explained that in Taiwan, if you cripple a man, you pay for the injured person’s care for a lifetime. But if you kill the person, you “only have to pay once, like a burial fee.” He insisted he was serious—and that this was common.


Nobody's making this up, it's documented fact. If you don't believe it do your own research, it's absolutely true. That is a much different slant on the value of human life compared to here in the west where such a thing would be abhorrent, unthinkable.

I don't say this as a criticism, merely as an observation, citing a fact. If you don't like that it's true then go overseas and try to change it. Don't shoot the messenger.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:03 pm 
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China just flew a nuclear capable bomber over the South China Sea, as a direct threat to our president elect. It was a few days ago so sorry if double post.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:58 pm 
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Thanks for your response. Based on internet reading I may have to stay AWAY FROM CONNECTICUT. I have been overseas to try to change things but I am uncertain about what it means in the long run or if history will see it as favorable. I will go again though. My point, I suppose, was that there is enough rhetoric flying around among elected officials that we don’t need to show our love of country by pointing out how others are different, the latter word added to say that I am not in disagreement with what you are trying to say but in how you said it. You could have addressed collective thinking over the individual, or Dunbar’s number, or the economic value of a human life. Even human waves favored by Communist armies. There are differences. Even then, did you mean current Chinese ruling party, Chinese culture, or anyone Asian? How do we build bilateral trust and habits of cooperation and respect if our leaders are trying to outdo each other with stronger rhetoric? Will they fight or use others?

There is a word for it. “Ugly” fits. There is a word for nearly everything. For instance, “kayfabe” is the word used for the portrayal of professional wrestling events as if they were true instead of staged. “Stereotype” comes from ancient Greek meaning “firm impression.” “Xenophobia” is an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries. “Fact” means actually true.

I am not trying to shoot a messenger but rather trying to deliver a message to Garcia that consensus building and compromise might prevent people from building a snowball that cannot be rolled back up hill and unraveled. I would say that a generalization stems from the independent variable and sample size. You use all of Asia.

Snopes used the same source you did with your example and came to this conclusion:
Quote:
It's not uncommon for egregious misinterpretations of Chinese life and culture to filter into mainstream Western news sources; and that problem has intensified with social media's boundless appetite for offbeat news. Slate's piece on why Chinese drivers purportedly kill the pedestrians they hit proved popular on social media, but its claims were weakly supported. (Online Source.)

I do everything possible to prevent the fanning of the flames of war.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:01 pm 
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Halfapint wrote:
China just flew a nuclear capable bomber over the South China Sea, as a direct threat to our president elect. It was a few days ago so sorry if double post.



The bomber they flew is not truly capable of dropping more than conventional munitions. It is a clone of an old Soviet design but apparently the Chinese don't have nuclear explosive gravity bombs in their inventory. I will try to find the article and post the link.

here

http://www.popularmechanics.com/militar ... sea-trump/

and here

http://www.stripes.com/news/does-china- ... r-1.444071

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:15 pm 
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-arms-exclusive-idUSKBN1431OK?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social

China installs weapons systems on artificial islands: U.S. think tank

China appears to have installed weapons, including anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems, on all seven of the artificial islands it has built in the South China Sea, a U.S. think tank reported, citing new satellite imagery.

The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI) at the Center for Strategic and International Studies said its findings, made available first to Reuters on Wednesday, come despite statements by the Chinese leadership that Beijing has no intention to militarize the islands in the strategic trade route, where territory is claimed by several countries.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:43 pm 
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That's not surprising. The Chinese gov are more than happy to tell you what you want to hear while doing the opposite.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:35 pm 
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Well sure, all the US Intelligence agencies get their information from China Daily :v:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Now it's getting weird...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/chinese-warship-underwater-drone-stolen/index.html

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:25 pm 
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It's not weird at all. It is a game that states play.

This will be followed by speeches and written thought pieces, perhaps some loud demands. We could steal something of theirs, ask for the items back and sue for damages. We could arrest one of their diplomatic officials acting as a spy and then they do the same with one of ours. Embargos would be difficult. The mistake I made earlier was not writing "the flames of total warfare." Since the introduction of the terms "limited warfare" and the "long war" one must assume that the most powerful states are always playing the game.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:02 pm 
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Dabster wrote:


We may get it back in about as many pices as the last P-3 Orion that the Chinese grabbed.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:29 am 
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And then they gave it back, using normalizing language from an all-too familiar playbook.
Quote:
"First I want to say we strongly dislike the term 'steal' as it's entirely inaccurate," she said. "The Chinese navy discovered the device -- and identified and verified it in a responsible and professional manner. Whether the device was lifted out of water and dragged in water, I think the key point was that the Chinese navy did so in a responsible and professional manner. And they did so to prevent it from harming navigational and personnel safety of passing ships."
How much calculation is involved in efforts to surmount the moral high ground? Interesting times indeed.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:14 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
And then they gave it back, using normalizing language from an all-too familiar playbook.
Quote:
"First I want to say we strongly dislike the term 'steal' as it's entirely inaccurate," she said. "The Chinese navy discovered the device -- and identified and verified it in a responsible and professional manner. Whether the device was lifted out of water and dragged in water, I think the key point was that the Chinese navy did so in a responsible and professional manner. And they did so to prevent it from harming navigational and personnel safety of passing ships."
How much calculation is involved in efforts to surmount the moral high ground? Interesting times indeed.

...but wouldn't it be more interesting if the drones had anti-tamper charges? I mean, for navigational safety.. :rofl:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:26 pm 
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LowKey wrote:
...but wouldn't it be more interesting if the drones had anti-tamper charges? I mean, for navigational safety.. :rofl:


I honestly dont understand why they dont. Or at least self detonate if signal is lost for (X) minutes. Doesn't have to be big explosive charges. Well placed thermite and small charges to destroy the components and minimize any external (Collateral) damage...

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The software in that drone was probably loaded with all sorts of nasty viruses and Trojan horses instead of conventional explosives.

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When Russia was developing SAM sites to take out US spy planes our Air Force created mockups to figure out countermeasures and methods of attack.

Picture from the USAF Nellis complex in Nevada

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Now China is doing exactly the same in preparation for launching (possible) attacks on US assets in the Pacific.

Has China Been Practicing Preemptive Missile Strikes Against U.S. Bases?
Thomas Shugart February 6, 2017

https://warontherocks.com/2017/02/has-c ... u-s-bases/

"You’ve probably heard that China’s military has developed a “carrier-killer” ballistic missile to threaten one of America’s premier power-projection tools, its unmatched fleet of aircraft carriers. Or perhaps you’ve read about China’s deployment of its own aircraft carrier to the Taiwan Strait and South China Sea. But heavily defended moving targets like aircraft carriers would be a challenge to hit in open ocean, and were China’s own aircraft carrier (or even two or three like it) to venture into open water in anger, the U.S. submarine force would make short work of it. In reality, the greatest military threat to U.S. vital interests in Asia may be one that has received somewhat less attention: the growing capability of China’s missile forces to strike U.S. bases. This is a time of increasing tension, with China’s news organizations openly threatening war. U.S. leaders and policymakers should understand that a preemptive Chinese missile strike against the forward bases that underpin U.S. military power in the Western Pacific is a very real possibility, particularly if China believes its claimed core strategic interests are threatened in the course of a crisis and perceives that its attempts at deterrence have failed. Such a preemptive strike appears consistent with available information about China’s missile force doctrine, and the satellite imagery shown below points to what may be real-world efforts to practice its execution."

Long article at link

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The Leading Power In East Asia Will Be Japan -- Not China

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin ... 32bdbb78e9

By 2040, Japan will rise as East Asia’s leading power. This is one of our most controversial forecasts at Geopolitical Futures.

Our readers know that GPF is bearish on China. And while some may disagree on that point, they usually see that the reasoning is sound. China will face serious problems in coming years… problems that will strain the Communist Party’s rule.

Japan, though, seems a bridge too far. Its population is less than a tenth of China’s size (and it’s not just aging… it’s shrinking). Japan also has a debt-to-GDP ratio over 229%.

So, how is it that Japan will emerge in the next 25 years as East Asia’s most powerful country?

A good place to start is a broad comparison of the structure of China and Japan’s economies (the second and third largest economies in the world, respectively).

This analysis will reveal strengths and weaknesses for both and will bring our forecast into sharper relief.

(see full article at link)

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