Food Storage Discussion Thread

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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Kilo147
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by Kilo147 » Mon May 27, 2013 2:56 pm

NoAm wrote: We have the straws in our preps as well but I would rather drink from a cup than stick my head in a river :wink:
Uh, that's why I have a folding cup for the straw. Makes it a smidgen easier. Bottles look cool, though my straws take up almost no space.

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by silversnake » Tue May 28, 2013 7:13 am

NoAm wrote: The Seychelle water bottle
* Insulated sleeve displays filtration instructions, strap attaches to backpacks and belts, and flip-top drinking cap has a replaceable Advanced filter that screws on and off.
* Each bottle provides up to 100 gallons of clean, drinkable water.
* The Advanced filter removes up to 99.99% of chlorine, chemicals, and heavy metals; and up to 99.9999% of bacteria and virus using its proprietary Ionic Adsorption Micron Filtration System.
* Seychelle’s exclusive filters are the most laboratory and field-tested of their kind in the world using EPA protocols and tested to NSF/ANSI Standards 42 and 53 by Broward Testing Laboratory.
* Environmentally safe: EPA Approved, BPA free, made of reusable FDA-approved low density polyethylene #4 plastic.

We have the straws in our preps as well but I would rather drink from a cup than stick my head in a river :wink:
I see a lot of these sorts of things around - basically a water bottle with a filter on a straw - that are good for personal drinking water. But, I'm curious about the other end of the equation. You're out on the trail (camping or having been displaced by a disaster) and you need a quick few cups of water to prepare your dehydrated/freeze-dried meal with. Your only source is a creek of unknown water quality. Boiling will kill most bacteria, but what about petrochemicals and other contaminants? What are people carrying in their bag for this sort of a situation? It seems to me these filtered drinking bottles won't exactly cut it in that situation.

Inquiring minds want to know.....

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by TacAir » Tue May 28, 2013 10:55 am

silversnake wrote:
NoAm wrote: The Seychelle water bottle
* Insulated sleeve displays filtration instructions, strap attaches to backpacks and belts, and flip-top drinking cap has a replaceable Advanced filter that screws on and off.
* Each bottle provides up to 100 gallons of clean, drinkable water.
* The Advanced filter removes up to 99.99% of chlorine, chemicals, and heavy metals; and up to 99.9999% of bacteria and virus using its proprietary Ionic Adsorption Micron Filtration System.
* Seychelle’s exclusive filters are the most laboratory and field-tested of their kind in the world using EPA protocols and tested to NSF/ANSI Standards 42 and 53 by Broward Testing Laboratory.
* Environmentally safe: EPA Approved, BPA free, made of reusable FDA-approved low density polyethylene #4 plastic.

We have the straws in our preps as well but I would rather drink from a cup than stick my head in a river :wink:
I see a lot of these sorts of things around - basically a water bottle with a filter on a straw - that are good for personal drinking water. But, I'm curious about the other end of the equation. You're out on the trail (camping or having been displaced by a disaster) and you need a quick few cups of water to prepare your dehydrated/freeze-dried meal with. Your only source is a creek of unknown water quality. Boiling will kill most bacteria, but what about petrochemicals and other contaminants? What are people carrying in their bag for this sort of a situation? It seems to me these filtered drinking bottles won't exactly cut it in that situation.

Inquiring minds want to know.....
Know your water source. I've already scouted and marked water sources that will be petrochem free. Filtering chemicals out of water is difficult and not something most backpacking filters are capable of that I know of.

Carbon block filters can reduce the amount of some chemicals, but to remove? I'll let one of the resident water experts talk to that.
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by silversnake » Tue May 28, 2013 1:13 pm

TacAir wrote: Know your water source. I've already scouted and marked water sources that will be petrochem free. Filtering chemicals out of water is difficult and not something most backpacking filters are capable of that I know of.

Carbon block filters can reduce the amount of some chemicals, but to remove? I'll let one of the resident water experts talk to that.
I agree 100% with all of your statements here. However, I'm fishing for the "it's safe enough that I'd work with it for a few days in a pinch" answer to the scenario where you're a state or two away from the water sources you know and being able to boil a pot full of rice and beans from the creek near your camp is what's standing between you and starvation. Extreme and unlikely, I know, but that's the best way to evaluate something in a thought exercise.

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by Kilo147 » Tue May 28, 2013 3:01 pm

What could possibly add a dangerous amount of petrochemicals to my little creek?

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieGranny » Tue May 28, 2013 3:18 pm

Image

Lots of 'ook' leaking from a car?
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by NoAm » Wed May 29, 2013 5:50 pm

silversnake wrote:
NoAm wrote: The Seychelle water bottle
* Insulated sleeve displays filtration instructions, strap attaches to backpacks and belts, and flip-top drinking cap has a replaceable Advanced filter that screws on and off.
* Each bottle provides up to 100 gallons of clean, drinkable water.
* The Advanced filter removes up to 99.99% of chlorine, chemicals, and heavy metals; and up to 99.9999% of bacteria and virus using its proprietary Ionic Adsorption Micron Filtration System.
* Seychelle’s exclusive filters are the most laboratory and field-tested of their kind in the world using EPA protocols and tested to NSF/ANSI Standards 42 and 53 by Broward Testing Laboratory.
* Environmentally safe: EPA Approved, BPA free, made of reusable FDA-approved low density polyethylene #4 plastic.

We have the straws in our preps as well but I would rather drink from a cup than stick my head in a river :wink:
I see a lot of these sorts of things around - basically a water bottle with a filter on a straw - that are good for personal drinking water. But, I'm curious about the other end of the equation. You're out on the trail (camping or having been displaced by a disaster) and you need a quick few cups of water to prepare your dehydrated/freeze-dried meal with. Your only source is a creek of unknown water quality. Boiling will kill most bacteria, but what about petrochemicals and other contaminants? What are people carrying in their bag for this sort of a situation? It seems to me these filtered drinking bottles won't exactly cut it in that situation.

Inquiring minds want to know.....
The Seychelle Water Filtration Bottle is ideal for any in- or out-door use—like traveling, hiking, biking, camping, fishing or for emergency purposes. It can be used with any type of water source, excluding salt water, such as tap water, rainwater, rivers, streams, or lakes.
Now with BIOSAFE®, removes up to 99.99% of bacteria, virus, contaminants and pollutants found in fresh water supplies including Aesthetics such as chlorine, sediment, and dirt; Biologicals such as Giardia, Cryptosporidium, E-Coli bacteria; Chemicals (VOCs) such as DDT, MTBE, Benzene, Chloroforms (THMs); and, Dissolved solids (heavy metals) such as arsenic, lead, mercury, copper, zinc, aluminum, and chromium 6.
Seychelle Advanced Filter is made of the same media as the Standard filter with the addition of EPA approved iodinated resin (EPA Reg #: 35917-2), which has been proven effective in the removal of bacteria and virus to six logs (99.9999%).
BIOSAFE® antimicrobial media has been added to all Seychelle filters. It is safe, non-toxic, and non-leaching; EPA, FDA, and NSF approved. It acts like a pincushion of molecules that are permanently bonded to the filter that disrupts and ruptures the cell structures of waterborne micro-organisms. Its biostatic effect reduces bacteria to 99.99%. BIOSAFE® has an indefinite shelf life......
As far as petroleum spills, I don't know that I would trust it to that but it seems like it takes care of most other stuff. He have them for our GHBs, BOBs and camping gear + extra filters. Since each bottle does 100 gallons and we have extra filters, I think this will take care of 'most' of our concerns. Toxic spills? I would probably find another watering hole :wink:
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by goofygurl » Thu May 30, 2013 12:15 am

ZombieGranny wrote:Image

Lots of 'ook' leaking from a car?

Or any given number of corporations that are fined on an almost daily basis for dumping chemicals? Especially considering that a lot of creeks run off of major rivers and major rivers are prime dumping grounds?

or how about sewage pipes from a residence nearby that go all splodey like and end up in the creek water...(not petro but still yuckies and would need filtered out anyhow)

or....I'll stop now. Kilo, I hope you see the answer to your question.

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by silversnake » Thu May 30, 2013 7:51 am

Kilo147 wrote:What could possibly add a dangerous amount of petrochemicals to my little creek?
The idiot further up the creek who just did his own oil change and thought that dumping it in a hole in his back yard was "good enough" for disposal? Or maybe the neighbor across the creek with the old home heating oil tank in the basement that he doesn't even know is leaking ~50 gallons a year or so? There's lots of sources of potential contamination.

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by silversnake » Thu May 30, 2013 7:58 am

NoAm wrote:Since each bottle does 100 gallons and we have extra filters, I think this will take care of 'most' of our concerns. Toxic spills? I would probably find another watering hole :wink:
NoAm, I'm confident of the filter's ability to filter the water. Mine was more a functional question of mechanics. How do you use a bottle like this (looks like you suck the water through the straw and it filters just before going into your mouth) to get three or four cups of water into a pan to cook with? I'm not seeing how that could work. If you can't fill your pan or coffee pot via this personal water bottle, what hardware do you use? I don't think this is a practical item for filling your Camelbak hydration bladder from the river when you're out on a multi-day hike and unsure of the water quality.

I'll grant you, if I'm dying of dehydration, I'm going to be less picky about water quality (right down to just drinking out of a mud puddle and dealing with the gastrointestinal problems that come later), but if I'm just adding water to a pouch of Mountain House food at my campfire, I might be a bit more selective about my water and how it's treated before I eat.

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by Kilo147 » Thu May 30, 2013 2:03 pm

goofygurl wrote:
ZombieGranny wrote:Image

Lots of 'ook' leaking from a car?

Or any given number of corporations that are fined on an almost daily basis for dumping chemicals? Especially considering that a lot of creeks run off of major rivers and major rivers are prime dumping grounds?

or how about sewage pipes from a residence nearby that go all splodey like and end up in the creek water...(not petro but still yuckies and would need filtered out anyhow)

or....I'll stop now. Kilo, I hope you see the answer to your question.
Sewage pipes burst at the lake, none run near the creek. And there is no corporation in the world that dumps chems into the creek. It is and has been for years an AA rated creek, one of the cleaner ones in my region. And there's monitoring stations within 100 yards of where I live that look specifically for dangerous chemicals and will make alerts on the website.

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by FrostWatch » Thu May 30, 2013 2:52 pm

Hello, new user here. Me and my friends were recently discussing what we would do in case of a zombie invasion and found it a rather interesting topic. We decided that preparing for a zombie apocalypse would be a fun and sometimes even useful hobby.

So currently I'm planning a long term supply store, my goal is one that could last roughly 2 years. While I understand there are some goods (salt, sugar, rice, honey, white vinegar, etc.) that can last indefinitely if stored properly, most of the store will consist of canned goods that expire. My question is: does brand matter? Looking at the expiration dates of some common canned goods, the expiry date seems to vary depending on the brand, even for the same items. At first I took those dates at face value but looking on the internet on sites like http://www.stilltasty.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I hear that many canned goods last significantly longer then they state on the item, and thinking about it the canning process should work equally well for both brands and a conservative shelf life could just be the company playing it safer then they need to.

So when planning on what items to put in my store, should I make decisions based on the expiry date on the can or on http://www.stilltasty.com/fooditems/index/18563" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Can I choose which brand of tuna I like best and stock that, operating on the assumption it will last 3-5 years regardless of brand, or are not all canned tunas created equal?

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by TacAir » Thu May 30, 2013 3:43 pm

FrostWatch wrote:Hello, new user here. Me and my friends were recently discussing what we would do in case of a zombie invasion and found it a rather interesting topic. We decided that preparing for a zombie apocalypse would be a fun and sometimes even useful hobby.

So currently I'm planning a long term supply store, my goal is one that could last roughly 2 years. While I understand there are some goods (salt, sugar, rice, honey, white vinegar, etc.) that can last indefinitely if stored properly, most of the store will consist of canned goods that expire. My question is: does brand matter? Looking at the expiration dates of some common canned goods, the expiry date seems to vary depending on the brand, even for the same items. At first I took those dates at face value but looking on the internet on sites like http://www.stilltasty.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I hear that many canned goods last significantly longer then they state on the item, and thinking about it the canning process should work equally well for both brands and a conservative shelf life could just be the company playing it safer then they need to.

So when planning on what items to put in my store, should I make decisions based on the expiry date on the can or on http://www.stilltasty.com/fooditems/index/18563" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Can I choose which brand of tuna I like best and stock that, operating on the assumption it will last 3-5 years regardless of brand, or are not all canned tunas created equal?
The short answer is to track the best by date and rotate your stock. While the food may not kill you, the nutrition content drops with age. Always closely check a canned product if opening past the best by date.

In my entire life, I seen exactly two bulged cans, I have seen multiple cans that have leaked - mostly pineapple.

Good luck
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by silversnake » Fri May 31, 2013 6:32 am

Kilo147 wrote:
goofygurl wrote:
ZombieGranny wrote:Image

Lots of 'ook' leaking from a car?

Or any given number of corporations that are fined on an almost daily basis for dumping chemicals? Especially considering that a lot of creeks run off of major rivers and major rivers are prime dumping grounds?

or how about sewage pipes from a residence nearby that go all splodey like and end up in the creek water...(not petro but still yuckies and would need filtered out anyhow)

or....I'll stop now. Kilo, I hope you see the answer to your question.
Sewage pipes burst at the lake, none run near the creek. And there is no corporation in the world that dumps chems into the creek. It is and has been for years an AA rated creek, one of the cleaner ones in my region. And there's monitoring stations within 100 yards of where I live that look specifically for dangerous chemicals and will make alerts on the website.
And if you're displaced away from this perfect creek to an area where you're not as familiar with the water supply along its entire course? Knowing one good water source and relaying on having access to it at all times is about like saying "I've got a Bic lighter in my go-bag so I'm all set for all my fire-starting needs and don't need to bother with anything else". Always have a backup plan and prepare for that "what if" is what ZS is all about.

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by NoAm » Fri May 31, 2013 1:26 pm

silversnake wrote:
NoAm wrote:Since each bottle does 100 gallons and we have extra filters, I think this will take care of 'most' of our concerns. Toxic spills? I would probably find another watering hole :wink:
NoAm, I'm confident of the filter's ability to filter the water. Mine was more a functional question of mechanics. How do you use a bottle like this (looks like you suck the water through the straw and it filters just before going into your mouth) to get three or four cups of water into a pan to cook with? I'm not seeing how that could work. If you can't fill your pan or coffee pot via this personal water bottle, what hardware do you use? I don't think this is a practical item for filling your Camelbak hydration bladder from the river when you're out on a multi-day hike and unsure of the water quality.

I'll grant you, if I'm dying of dehydration, I'm going to be less picky about water quality (right down to just drinking out of a mud puddle and dealing with the gastrointestinal problems that come later), but if I'm just adding water to a pouch of Mountain House food at my campfire, I might be a bit more selective about my water and how it's treated before I eat.
Oops, sorry if I misunderstood. I was just strictly thinking of drinking water. *facepalm* We have several different stoves to boil the water and then strain the water through coffee filters for cooking or anything in a large quantity. We also have the tablets but I know that doesn't help take care of all our concerns. What others ideas do people have for dealing with larger quantities of water, esp when you are in an outdoors (on the move) situation?
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by Dabster » Fri May 31, 2013 2:37 pm

Sorry if this isn't the appropriate place or it is an old & tired issue but I have a question about dried beans.

My wife has found some fantastic recipes that use dried beans. I'm liking these so much -I would like to stock up. However no matter where we get them (packaged, bulk, bulk in a nicer grocery stores or bulk and we have verified the store just got them), about half of the beans are bad. By bad I mean that they look too dried out and they do not hydrate properly.

What do the experts do in this situation? Do you live with ~50% spoilage? Do you pull out bad beans before you store them? Do you get better beans somewhere?

Thanks!
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieGranny » Fri May 31, 2013 6:03 pm

I have never had anything like a 50 percent failure.
We had a batch of beans once that were decades old that we needed to grind up into powder.

Some varieties of bean normally look wrinkled.
How do you cook them?
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by duodecima » Fri May 31, 2013 8:09 pm

Dabster wrote:By bad I mean that they look too dried out and they do not hydrate properly.
What do you mean by do not hydrate properly? Still crunchy after simmered for a couple hours? Old beans tend to take longer to soften (and unevenly so, in my experience) but I've never had half my beans not cook. Old lentils do take a frustratingly long time to cook, tho. I have an unfortunate number of old lentils I'm working thru, just got a pressure cooker to see if that works well for me...

What kind of beans are we talking about? Kidney, pinto, black, navy?
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by Dabster » Fri May 31, 2013 9:40 pm

Thank you for your replies. They have been navy, pinto, kidney and great northern.

My wife describes the first bad ones as broken or wrinkled, this may be 1/3 of the batch She sorts out and throws them out. She then soaks the remainder over-night. The next morning about a third of them remain rock-hard and the rest are ready to cook.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieGranny » Fri May 31, 2013 10:27 pm

Well, wrinkled is not a bad bean and there shouldn't be more than 3 or 4 broken beans in a pound.
I usually just cook them all anyway.

I don't know why the overnight soak isn't working (very hard water? acidic ingredients in the water? high altitude?), but you can also do a 'fast soak'.
Put the beans in a pot with a cover.
Cover the beans with double the amount of boiling hot water for an hour, drain and replace boiling water for an hour (during this soak they should be growing in size), drain and one further boiling water for an hour (should be getting very large now) after which you cook them.
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by duodecima » Fri May 31, 2013 10:31 pm

Dabster wrote:Thank you for your replies. They have been navy, pinto, kidney and great northern.

My wife describes the first bad ones as broken or wrinkled, this may be 1/3 of the batch She sorts out and throws them out. She then soaks the remainder over-night. The next morning about a third of them remain rock-hard and the rest are ready to cook.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
Cook 'em all and see what happens. 1/3 wrinkled seems high to me, that might indicate an issue (altho I've never had that issue with bagged from store, or bulk from co-op, so that's weird). For an experiment, you might sort the soaked beans into soft vs hard pots and see if one takes a longer cook time. Frankly, I just throw the broken beans in with the others, picking them over has never yielded much and I haven't had problems just dumping my wal-mart beans (mostly black or navy, for me) in the pot with no sorting at all.

Also, you could bring them to a boil and then leave them to soak (in the hot water) overnight, see if that improves the outcome.

(ETA - exactly what ZG said....)
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by NoAm » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:47 am

NoAm wrote:
silversnake wrote:
NoAm wrote:Since each bottle does 100 gallons and we have extra filters, I think this will take care of 'most' of our concerns. Toxic spills? I would probably find another watering hole :wink:
NoAm, I'm confident of the filter's ability to filter the water. Mine was more a functional question of mechanics. How do you use a bottle like this (looks like you suck the water through the straw and it filters just before going into your mouth) to get three or four cups of water into a pan to cook with? I'm not seeing how that could work. If you can't fill your pan or coffee pot via this personal water bottle, what hardware do you use? I don't think this is a practical item for filling your Camelbak hydration bladder from the river when you're out on a multi-day hike and unsure of the water quality.

I'll grant you, if I'm dying of dehydration, I'm going to be less picky about water quality (right down to just drinking out of a mud puddle and dealing with the gastrointestinal problems that come later), but if I'm just adding water to a pouch of Mountain House food at my campfire, I might be a bit more selective about my water and how it's treated before I eat.
I actually just remembered we also have the Katadyn Water Filters. They are the handpump style that will do 200 gallons, I haven't dug through our EDCs lately, MrNoAm reminded me of that last night. This one is similar to the ones that we have: http://www.thrivewnc.thrivelife.com/kat ... ilter.html
There are also the SteriPen UV options but I haven't tried those yet. I might have to grab a couple of these. http://www.thrivewnc.thrivelife.com/all ... r.html?p=6
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Check out this months newsletter To see how to save on food storage
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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by FrostWatch » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:18 am

On the topic of water storage, would it be possible to safely store drinkable water for around 3 years using 2 litre pop bottles? Or will I need those larger 5 gallon water jugs? I'd rather use pop bottles if possible due to the fact that I drink a fair amount of pop and the 2 litre seems like an easier unit to deal with when on the move or dividing water. Seems easier to calculate and administer the water you have when you can just remember 1 gallon = ~2 2 litres. Also, is bleach necessary to add to your water if your city already treats it?

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Re: Food Storage Discussion Thread

Post by MPMalloy » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:27 am

FrostWatch wrote:. Also, is bleach necessary to add to your water if your city already treats it?
You don't have to treat tap water. The city took care of everything. Make sure you store the water in a food-grade container that is clean.

Odinsown

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