Money, money, money

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Money, money, money

Post by M813 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:44 am

Hi all,

One of the things that preppers advocate, is not putting all of your financial assets in any one currency, or all in US dollars.

Now that I've accrued some savings, I'd like to open some accounts with banks outside of US control, that use or hold other currencies, specifically Euros and BPS to start with.

Can anyone guide me on how to do this while sitting in the US?

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by NT2C » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:26 am

M813 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:44 am
Hi all,

One of the things that preppers advocate, is not putting all of your financial assets in any one currency, or all in US dollars.

Now that I've accrued some savings, I'd like to open some accounts with banks outside of US control, that use or hold other currencies, specifically Euros and BPS to start with.

Can anyone guide me on how to do this while sitting in the US?
I would strongly caution you, first, to vet any advice you get with a financial professional and, second, to be extremely wary of breaking any US laws regarding this. It is stupidly easy to run afoul of US laws regarding foreign investments and banking and I would be disinclined to accept the advice of any "internet expert" who cannot also provide professional certification and licensing credentials in addition to advice.
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by Blast » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:19 pm

Not sure if this fits in with your plan, but a few years ago Chinese people started buying up URLs they thought might become valuable. Then after escaping their homeland they'd sell the URLs to fund beginning their lives in a new country.
-Blast
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by raptor2 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 pm

M813 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:44 am
Hi all,

One of the things that preppers advocate, is not putting all of your financial assets in any one currency, or all in US dollars.

Now that I've accrued some savings, I'd like to open some accounts with banks outside of US control, that use or hold other currencies, specifically Euros and BPS to start with.

Can anyone guide me on how to do this while sitting in the US?
Yes I can offer some guidance.

First of all opening a bank account in another country is quite difficult for Americans.
Only the largest banks will even let you open an account due to the incredible reporting burden back to the US .gov. In addition any one who has one (basically anything not quite but it seems that way) must file a special reporting form to the US treasure or risk a real and expensive penalty. There is no time extension on these forms and you must make sure to file the form 8938 timely. My suggestion is to file it even if you do not have to dos; because the penalty is quite onerous and "willful" failure to file is deemed tax fraud by the MIB folks.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/comparis ... quirements
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-bu ... ounts-fbar
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8938.pdf

That said it is possible but honestly depending upon your plans and amounts involved there may be simpler ways to get currency diversity. There is of course the added risk of currency conversion risk and a lot more in the way of fees. I would also note that the Euro is not exactly in great shape. Granted the USD's future does not look good but the euro, yen and CN $ & AU $ are also not exactly looking great either. The Swiss franc is still strong and well managed but in the EU & Switzerland there are negative interest rates. So if for instance you buy a euro denominated bond today you will be literally paying for the pleasure of holding that bond to maturity and dealing with the conversion risk at that time.

https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates ... ds/germany

The alternatives to consider?

Find a broker/dealer that has exchange rights in the countries you desire. This one (https://www.europac.com ...there are others so shop around) has trading desks/relationships on most the key world exchanges. Fr instance you can buy AU securities in AU and hold them in AU $. The dividends and interest that these securities pay will be in AU $. Because it is a US regulated firm you get a regular 1099 and can avoid the 8938 route.

Simply buy EU, Swiss, AU, PRC, Indian and other foreign based companies that are sold on the US stock exchange...note AVOID pink sheets listing... a link to all foreign domiciled companies on the NYSE:
https://www.nyse.com/publicdocs/nyse/da ... Stocks.pdf

You can also find banks like this one that have synthetic foreign exchange accounts but I suggest avoiding this route (google the name and Iceland to find out why) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverBank

The other way (excluding crypto currency) is buy various ETNs & ETFs that mimic the currency's up & down vs the USD. Look up symbols
euro - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/FXE?p=FXE
Yen - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/FXY?p=FXY
Swiss franc - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/FXF?p=FXF

Depending upon your needs you may also consider opening an account and a trading account in Canada. Canadian banks are generally healthier than most other countries because they stuck to the boring regular kind of lending and banking and not the deal making BS that US banks love for fees and bonuses.

Note all foreign banks in the US deal strictly in USD and while they may be owned by the same bank some may not allow their foreign branches to accept a US ATM card. So will some won't. I know at least at one time the Royal Bank of Canada would not honor a Canadian customer's ATM card in Miami but would honor it seamlessly in the Bahamas.

While some banks in the US do keep forex reserves for travelers they typically frown on supplying more than $500 USD worth in any one transaction.

That said if you are looking to invest significant cash the best route is to go to Zurich and open a bank and trading account. They can also facilitate, for an extra fee of course, a resident visa if that is your desire.
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by RoneKiln » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:39 pm

Watch out for "inactivity fees" on a bank account you don't expect to use regularly. I used to work and travel in Europe every summer and thought it would be smart to keep a bank account at an international bank with easy access in all the European countries I had primary interest in. That was a mistake. They changed the terms of the account with no notice and stole near everything without ever notifying me. Luckily it was only worth a few hundred US dollars. I closed out the account after a very intense conversation with the bank manager.
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by M813 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:42 am

OK, what about simply converting some of my money to foreign currency in the forum of cash? I've gone to US airports and changed USD to other currencies but that was for a short trip.

What's a safe way to store it that isn't under my mattress? Safe deposit box?

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by NT2C » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:41 am

M813 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:42 am
OK, what about simply converting some of my money to foreign currency in the forum of cash? I've gone to US airports and changed USD to other currencies but that was for a short trip.

What's a safe way to store it that isn't under my mattress? Safe deposit box?
Safe deposit boxes always presume that the bank will be open and doing business when you need to get to that box. That's not always the case. If it were me, it'd be in vacuum-sealed bags in an appropriately sized genuine Pelican case buried a little over 3' deep in a secluded area of a national park or forest. That's deep enough that most metal detectors will miss it, even with coins or bullion in it, frost heave won't bother it, and the site has a slim chance of anything being built on it. Then again, I'm on my 4th marriage, so I'm not always the guy with great ideas. :crazy:

Edit to add: The primary drawback to this method is that sometimes governments change their money and you have a limited time to exchange your hard cash from the old currency to the new
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by raptor2 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:58 pm

M813 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:42 am
OK, what about simply converting some of my money to foreign currency in the forum of cash? I've gone to US airports and changed USD to other currencies but that was for a short trip.

What's a safe way to store it that isn't under my mattress? Safe deposit box?
That is a possibility. Typically you can get about $500 USD +/-. As noted if you have a vacuum sealer that is ideal. I suggest putting it in a baggee anyway as added water proofing. Bank safe deposit boxes are generally safe and secure except:

During COVID banks frequently closed their branches to everyone although you could make an appointment to go to your safe deposit box.
If a bank is closed by the FDIC your box is safe but if the branch is closed permanently you need to get the thing out of your bank box.
If you trying to be shall we say discrete, in order to get a bank box your full ID is on file and makes such discretion impossible.

There are private "bank type" safe boxes but they suffer from all but the last item, with the added risk of no FDIC approved security.

I suggest multiple smaller caches as opposed to a single one. That way you minimize the loss if one is discovered.

The pelican case as noted is a good thought, but then do not lose it and do not let anyone know about the location. If you think of a place I suggest that you "google' it and see how many hits the location gets.

There are some creative locations but if I post them here it kinda negates their value as low key hiding places.
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:30 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:58 pm
M813 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:42 am
OK, what about simply converting some of my money to foreign currency in the forum of cash? I've gone to US airports and changed USD to other currencies but that was for a short trip. What's a safe way to store it that isn't under my mattress? Safe deposit box?
I suggest multiple smaller caches as opposed to a single one. That way you minimize the loss if one is discovered.
Yes.

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by raptor2 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:09 pm

You do not need a pelican case; a link to a simple PVC pipe cache that can work nicely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUogyKl ... JohnRourke
Note if you use this method condensation is also possible so be sure the water proof the contents.

Also I suggest using a marine sealant like 3M 5200 to seal the seams on the end caps.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-05220-Marine- ... 57BYEH7K2H

JB weld is also a great product to seal the end cap seams.
https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-8277-Wh ... 175&sr=1-9
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by NT2C » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:10 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:09 pm
You do not need a pelican case; a link to a simple PVC pipe cache that can work nicely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUogyKl ... JohnRourke
Note if you use this method condensation is also possible so be sure the water proof the contents.

Also I suggest using a marine sealant like 3M 5200 to seal the seams on the end caps.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-05220-Marine- ... 57BYEH7K2H

JB weld is also a great product to seal the end cap seams.
https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-8277-Wh ... 175&sr=1-9
A Pelican case has the advantage of having a somewhat discreet appearance to transport to/from the hiding location, something that a length of PVC that looks suspiciously like a pipe bomb decidedly does not enjoy. Sure, you can use a backpack to carry a short piece, and the chemicals to seal it with, but a Pelican case is self-sealing and hardly raises any eyebrows when carried around, even the bright colored ones. It isn't until you get to sizes and shapes best suited to holding a firearm that you get glances. My main suitcase for travel is this bright orange job sitting in the bottom of my closet:

Image

(normally festooned with a pair of heavy Discus locks from Abus)

I traveled all around the US with that, dragging it into a different hotel almost every night, and only once did I get any comment on it and that was from a maid who wanted to know where she could get one for an upcoming trip back to her homeland in Honduras. The trip here had destroyed her regular suitcase.
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Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by boskone » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:52 pm

I think Pelican or similar does have a lot to be said about it, especially something like the "Hardback" series. They're smaller than most Pelican products, but there's still rather a lot of room for documentation, cash, coinage, even precious metals. And they don't really look like a regular Pelican, so should be rather less interesting for anyone who sees one.

Tangential, but I didn't know Pelican was getting in the ammo can game. I'm not sure I actually see a point in an undoubtedly-overpriced Pelican ammo can, though.

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by RoneKiln » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:52 am

Burying a pelican case or pipe filled with foreign currency strikes me as a great way to lose it.

The gun safe is probably a far safer place to store it. Even a couch cushion would be safer.

But if you REALLY want to bury it, you're welcome to come bury it in my garden.
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by NT2C » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:24 am

RoneKiln wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:52 am
Burying a pelican case or pipe filled with foreign currency strikes me as a great way to lose it.

The gun safe is probably a far safer place to store it. Even a couch cushion would be safer.

But if you REALLY want to bury it, you're welcome to come bury it in my garden.
Maybe someone already did. 8-)
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by RoneKiln » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:40 am

NT2C wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:24 am
RoneKiln wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:52 am
Burying a pelican case or pipe filled with foreign currency strikes me as a great way to lose it.

The gun safe is probably a far safer place to store it. Even a couch cushion would be safer.

But if you REALLY want to bury it, you're welcome to come bury it in my garden.
Maybe someone already did. 8-)
I'm not helping you when he comes after you for stealing it.
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by NT2C » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:58 am

RoneKiln wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:40 am
NT2C wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:24 am
RoneKiln wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:52 am
Burying a pelican case or pipe filled with foreign currency strikes me as a great way to lose it.

The gun safe is probably a far safer place to store it. Even a couch cushion would be safer.

But if you REALLY want to bury it, you're welcome to come bury it in my garden.
Maybe someone already did. 8-)
I'm not helping you when he comes after you for stealing it.
I have an alibi.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by woodsghost » Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:20 pm

boskone wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:52 pm
I think Pelican or similar does have a lot to be said about it, especially something like the "Hardback" series. They're smaller than most Pelican products, but there's still rather a lot of room for documentation, cash, coinage, even precious metals. And they don't really look like a regular Pelican, so should be rather less interesting for anyone who sees one.

Tangential, but I didn't know Pelican was getting in the ammo can game. I'm not sure I actually see a point in an undoubtedly-overpriced Pelican ammo can, though.
I have been amazed at how much money people will spend. Especially if they think "it's the best money can buy!" And "I only buy quality."

I'm not knocking people who buy quality. I just have to match the quality to my actual needs.
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by boskone » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:57 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:20 pm
boskone wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:52 pm
I think Pelican or similar does have a lot to be said about it, especially something like the "Hardback" series. They're smaller than most Pelican products, but there's still rather a lot of room for documentation, cash, coinage, even precious metals. And they don't really look like a regular Pelican, so should be rather less interesting for anyone who sees one.

Tangential, but I didn't know Pelican was getting in the ammo can game. I'm not sure I actually see a point in an undoubtedly-overpriced Pelican ammo can, though.
I have been amazed at how much money people will spend. Especially if they think "it's the best money can buy!" And "I only buy quality."

I'm not knocking people who buy quality. I just have to match the quality to my actual needs.
Maybe I'm just being cranky about it, but I've never seen a clear improvement over ya olde steele ammo cannes.

I suppose they're relatively heavy and could theoretically rust; but they're cheap, durable, reasonably waterproof, and stack decently (which all too many non-USGI ammo cans don't).

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by woodsghost » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:22 pm

boskone wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:57 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:20 pm
boskone wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:52 pm
I think Pelican or similar does have a lot to be said about it, especially something like the "Hardback" series. They're smaller than most Pelican products, but there's still rather a lot of room for documentation, cash, coinage, even precious metals. And they don't really look like a regular Pelican, so should be rather less interesting for anyone who sees one.

Tangential, but I didn't know Pelican was getting in the ammo can game. I'm not sure I actually see a point in an undoubtedly-overpriced Pelican ammo can, though.
I have been amazed at how much money people will spend. Especially if they think "it's the best money can buy!" And "I only buy quality."

I'm not knocking people who buy quality. I just have to match the quality to my actual needs.
Maybe I'm just being cranky about it, but I've never seen a clear improvement over ya olde steele ammo cannes.

I suppose they're relatively heavy and could theoretically rust; but they're cheap, durable, reasonably waterproof, and stack decently (which all too many non-USGI ammo cans don't).
We are of one mind in that regard.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by tony d tiger » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:03 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:22 pm
boskone wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:57 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:20 pm
boskone wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:52 pm
I think Pelican or similar does have a lot to be said about it, especially something like the "Hardback" series. They're smaller than most Pelican products, but there's still rather a lot of room for documentation, cash, coinage, even precious metals. And they don't really look like a regular Pelican, so should be rather less interesting for anyone who sees one.

Tangential, but I didn't know Pelican was getting in the ammo can game. I'm not sure I actually see a point in an undoubtedly-overpriced Pelican ammo can, though.
I have been amazed at how much money people will spend. Especially if they think "it's the best money can buy!" And "I only buy quality."

I'm not knocking people who buy quality. I just have to match the quality to my actual needs.
Maybe I'm just being cranky about it, but I've never seen a clear improvement over ya olde steele ammo cannes.

I suppose they're relatively heavy and could theoretically rust; but they're cheap, durable, reasonably waterproof, and stack decently (which all too many non-USGI ammo cans don't).
We are of one mind in that regard.
Too bad the government doesn't agree, they have been trying to "better mousetrap" the inner and outer packaging for years (despite having decades old stockpiles still on-hand).
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Re: Money, money, money

Post by Albert » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:19 pm

It's easy enough to zip across the Canadian border and bring back a few hundred dollars worth of Canadian currency. Do NOT bring more than $10,000, since, if you get caught, this will get confiscated (Something done to prevent drug mules from moving money across the borders.). And, if you ever have to flee back across the border, it might be good to have some native currency.

Good luck.

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by boskone » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:55 pm

tony d tiger wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:03 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:22 pm
boskone wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:57 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:20 pm


I have been amazed at how much money people will spend. Especially if they think "it's the best money can buy!" And "I only buy quality."

I'm not knocking people who buy quality. I just have to match the quality to my actual needs.
Maybe I'm just being cranky about it, but I've never seen a clear improvement over ya olde steele ammo cannes.

I suppose they're relatively heavy and could theoretically rust; but they're cheap, durable, reasonably waterproof, and stack decently (which all too many non-USGI ammo cans don't).
We are of one mind in that regard.
Too bad the government doesn't agree, they have been trying to "better mousetrap" the inner and outer packaging for years (despite having decades old stockpiles still on-hand).
Aside from fiddling with size for specialist ammo types and I think a schmancy plastic case for 40mm grenade belts, isn't the military still using the same ol' ammo cans?

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by tony d tiger » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:13 pm

boskone wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:55 pm
tony d tiger wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:03 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:22 pm
boskone wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:57 pm

Maybe I'm just being cranky about it, but I've never seen a clear improvement over ya olde steele ammo cannes.

I suppose they're relatively heavy and could theoretically rust; but they're cheap, durable, reasonably waterproof, and stack decently (which all too many non-USGI ammo cans don't).
We are of one mind in that regard.
Too bad the government doesn't agree, they have been trying to "better mousetrap" the inner and outer packaging for years (despite having decades old stockpiles still on-hand).
Aside from fiddling with size for specialist ammo types and I think a schmancy plastic case for 40mm grenade belts, isn't the military still using the same ol' ammo cans?
Yes and no. Yes, they still use "combat packaging" (you know, ammo inside stripper clips, cardboard inserts, bandoleers, ammo cans and wirebound overpacks) that are little changed from Korean war era ammunition. In fact, there is still a lot of old ammo in inventory. BUT, for peacetime training, much of the smaller caliber (but not .50 cal - which is also "small arms") is coming from the factory in commercial packaging. Not weather, fire or soldier-proof. This was a cost savings based on the reality of needs. Add to this, the maxim of "One man's trash is another man's treasure" and you start to see the reasoning behind commercial packaging - all those cans and premithrin-treated boxes(!) Gotta get rid of them somehow. Oh, and shipping weight of metal cans vs "new" combat plastic boxes... at least that's what they were engineering a few years back. :words:
So, while they haven't yet solved the puzzle, somebody's Dutch uncle is gonna get a whopper of a contract(s) when they do. / :words: :mrgreen:
Tony D Tiger

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Re: Money, money, money

Post by MPMalloy » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:29 pm

boskone wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:57 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:20 pm
boskone wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:52 pm
I think Pelican or similar does have a lot to be said about it, especially something like the "Hardback" series. They're smaller than most Pelican products, but there's still rather a lot of room for documentation, cash, coinage, even precious metals. And they don't really look like a regular Pelican, so should be rather less interesting for anyone who sees one.

Tangential, but I didn't know Pelican was getting in the ammo can game. I'm not sure I actually see a point in an undoubtedly-overpriced Pelican ammo can, though.
I have been amazed at how much money people will spend. Especially if they think "it's the best money can buy!" And "I only buy quality."

I'm not knocking people who buy quality. I just have to match the quality to my actual needs.
Maybe I'm just being cranky about it, but I've never seen a clear improvement over ya olde steele ammo cannes.

I suppose they're relatively heavy and could theoretically rust; but they're cheap, durable, reasonably waterproof, and stack decently (which all too many non-USGI ammo cans don't).
NFS!

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