The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by flybynight » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:20 am

Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:53 am
flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:07 am
Stercutus wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:41 pm
NT2C wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:52 pm
Guys, as fascinating as your discussion is, can you please steer it back more towards prepping and less examination of the politics involved?
He can correct me if I am wrong but I think the point that FBN was getting to was that nightmare scenario where the US Military goes off the reservation and it becomes a shooting match. This is a whole other ball wax of preparation wise.
Exactly. To believe federal troops will sit idlily on their hands is a foolish hope that ignores the political history of mankind.
Not necessarily. You see I was in Germany when Communism fell in Eastern Europe. Romania didn't go great and there were decades of issues in the former Yugoslavia but the rest of it worked out ok. It is hardly a lone example either.

If the military does get called out and hits the street it is highly doubtful any commander would take part in anything non-constitutional. If they do, it will make the ensuing refugee crisis look like a Daniel Biechele / Great White Reunion Concert. People will be running for the exits screaming to wherever they can go for fear of being burned alive.
Non Constitutional as in confiscation of personal weapons , food stores and killing pets( to preserve order and for the safety of the populace) ? Or non Constitutional as in " I General ( insert name here) declare the kingdom of Texarkansahoma to be a sovereign state and order my Army to also protect the rebel states of Louisiana, New Mexico , Nebraska and Missouri , until their traitorous governments are driven from our kingdom " ?
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:09 am

flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:20 am
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:53 am
flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:07 am
Stercutus wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:41 pm
He can correct me if I am wrong but I think the point that FBN was getting to was that nightmare scenario where the US Military goes off the reservation and it becomes a shooting match. This is a whole other ball wax of preparation wise.
Exactly. To believe federal troops will sit idlily on their hands is a foolish hope that ignores the political history of mankind.
Not necessarily. You see I was in Germany when Communism fell in Eastern Europe. Romania didn't go great and there were decades of issues in the former Yugoslavia but the rest of it worked out ok. It is hardly a lone example either.

If the military does get called out and hits the street it is highly doubtful any commander would take part in anything non-constitutional. If they do, it will make the ensuing refugee crisis look like a Daniel Biechele / Great White Reunion Concert. People will be running for the exits screaming to wherever they can go for fear of being burned alive.
Non Constitutional as in confiscation of personal weapons , food stores and killing pets( to preserve order and for the safety of the populace) ? Or non Constitutional as in " I General ( insert name here) declare the kingdom of Texarkansahoma to be a sovereign state and order my Army to also protect the rebel states of Louisiana, New Mexico , Nebraska and Missouri , until their traitorous governments are driven from our kingdom " ?
Funny.

On a related note: political link - YT

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by Stercutus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:24 am

Even when the USSR was breaking it we didn't see that level of crazy.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by raptor » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:11 pm

Folks if you cannot keep the politics out of this I will simply shut down the thread.

Discussion of impacts and planning for them is permissible. Discussion of political parties and persons are not.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:23 pm

raptor wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:11 pm
Folks if you cannot keep the politics out of this I will simply shut down the thread.

Discussion of impacts and planning for them is permissible. Discussion of political parties and persons are not.
:(

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by flybynight » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:24 am
Even when the USSR was breaking it we didn't see that level of crazy.
There is no level of crazy that can't be passed nowadays. Example, yesterday in one of the buildings my wife works at, a k- 9 officer and his dog arrived to give a presentation. One of the women who works in that building ,watched him walk in and then ran down the main hallway screaming " HE'S GOT A GUN.... HE'S GOT A GUN. " She then crouched down in a corner sobbing " he's got a gun and a dog."
The craziest part though is nothing was done about her outburst and obvious mental health problem. She was back at work this morning
Last edited by flybynight on Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by flybynight » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:22 am

Larga vida a la revolución. Abajo los ricos supresores. poder para la gente
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by Stercutus » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:56 am

flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:24 am
Even when the USSR was breaking it we didn't see that level of crazy.
There is no level of crazy that can't be passed nowadays. Example, yesterday in one of the buildings my wife works at, a k- 9 officer and his dog arrived to give a presentation. One of the women who works in that building ,watched him walk in and then ran down the main hallway screaming " HE'S GOT A GUN.... HE'S GOT A GUN. " She then crouched down in a corner sobbing " he's got a gun and a dog."
The craziest part though is nothing was done about her outburst and obvious mental health problem. She was back at work this morning
I've seen worse. One place I worked at a few years ago a lady decided that the lunch her hubby had fixed her contained Anthrax and he was trying to kill her. Her reasoning? She opened a desiccant packet that said "Do not eat" on the side of it and started eating it. Then said she felt funny and that he had poisoned her with Anthrax. Worst part was the civilian leadership totally bought her crazy story and then punched the panic button.

They evacuated a building with 6500 workers and furloughed them for the day. Called every Federal Agency that they could think of (DHS, FBI, ATFE etc) as well as calling in all the locals. They brought 40 fire trucks (I guess for decon) as well as least 25 police cars. In total about $500K was spent on that bit of stupidity. And of course she was back at work the next day.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by raptor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:57 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:56 am
flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:24 am
Even when the USSR was breaking it we didn't see that level of crazy.
There is no level of crazy that can't be passed nowadays. Example, yesterday in one of the buildings my wife works at, a k- 9 officer and his dog arrived to give a presentation. One of the women who works in that building ,watched him walk in and then ran down the main hallway screaming " HE'S GOT A GUN.... HE'S GOT A GUN. " She then crouched down in a corner sobbing " he's got a gun and a dog."
The craziest part though is nothing was done about her outburst and obvious mental health problem. She was back at work this morning
I've seen worse. One place I worked at a few years ago a lady decided that the lunch her hubby had fixed her contained Anthrax and he was trying to kill her. Her reasoning? She opened a desiccant packet that said "Do not eat" on the side of it and started eating it. Then said she felt funny and that he had poisoned her with Anthrax. Worst part was the civilian leadership totally bought her crazy story and then punched the panic button.

They evacuated a building with 6500 workers and furloughed them for the day. Called every Federal Agency that they could think of (DHS, FBI, ATFE etc) as well as calling in all the locals. They brought 40 fire trucks (I guess for decon) as well as least 25 police cars. In total about $500K was spent on that bit of stupidity. And of course she was back at work the next day.
ADA has rules against firing reassigning or otherwise penalizing such people. It can be considered "Disability Discrimination". Google the term for further information.

Also if the people (in charge) involved did not act based upon the above circumstances; they could have faced significant liability.
A sad but true fact that common sense imposes a legal burden on those involved whereas silly over reaction is protected and expected.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by NT2C » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:52 pm

raptor wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:57 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:56 am
flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:24 am
Even when the USSR was breaking it we didn't see that level of crazy.
There is no level of crazy that can't be passed nowadays. Example, yesterday in one of the buildings my wife works at, a k- 9 officer and his dog arrived to give a presentation. One of the women who works in that building ,watched him walk in and then ran down the main hallway screaming " HE'S GOT A GUN.... HE'S GOT A GUN. " She then crouched down in a corner sobbing " he's got a gun and a dog."
The craziest part though is nothing was done about her outburst and obvious mental health problem. She was back at work this morning
I've seen worse. One place I worked at a few years ago a lady decided that the lunch her hubby had fixed her contained Anthrax and he was trying to kill her. Her reasoning? She opened a desiccant packet that said "Do not eat" on the side of it and started eating it. Then said she felt funny and that he had poisoned her with Anthrax. Worst part was the civilian leadership totally bought her crazy story and then punched the panic button.

They evacuated a building with 6500 workers and furloughed them for the day. Called every Federal Agency that they could think of (DHS, FBI, ATFE etc) as well as calling in all the locals. They brought 40 fire trucks (I guess for decon) as well as least 25 police cars. In total about $500K was spent on that bit of stupidity. And of course she was back at work the next day.
ADA has rules against firing reassigning or otherwise penalizing such people. It can be considered "Disability Discrimination". Google the term for further information.

Also if the people (in charge) involved did not act based upon the above circumstances; they could have faced significant liability.
A sad but true fact that common sense imposes a legal burden on those involved whereas silly over reaction is protected and expected.
AKA: The inmates have taken over the asylum.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by Stercutus » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:42 pm

ADA has rules against firing reassigning or otherwise penalizing such people. It can be considered "Disability Discrimination". Google the term for further information.

Also if the people (in charge) involved did not act based upon the above circumstances; they could have faced significant liability.
Oh I know. Between keeping the crazies working there and the no gun policy backed by Federal Law I decided it was not a place I wanted to keep on working.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by norcalprep » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:21 pm

flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:24 am
Even when the USSR was breaking it we didn't see that level of crazy.
There is no level of crazy that can't be passed nowadays. Example, yesterday in one of the buildings my wife works at, a k- 9 officer and his dog arrived to give a presentation. One of the women who works in that building ,watched him walk in and then ran down the main hallway screaming " HE'S GOT A GUN.... HE'S GOT A GUN. " She then crouched down in a corner sobbing " he's got a gun and a dog."
The craziest part though is nothing was done about her outburst and obvious mental health problem. She was back at work this morning
I know someone that survived the Las Vegas / Mandalay Bay shooting that has a similar reaction merely seeing pictures of guns. I'm now more inclined to think 'trauma' before describing it as 'mental health problem'. Maybe she had or someone close to her had gone through some gun-related trauma?

(I also know someone that didn't survive that Vegas shooting. Sad times.)

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by NT2C » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:56 pm

norcalprep wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:21 pm
flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:24 am
Even when the USSR was breaking it we didn't see that level of crazy.
There is no level of crazy that can't be passed nowadays. Example, yesterday in one of the buildings my wife works at, a k- 9 officer and his dog arrived to give a presentation. One of the women who works in that building ,watched him walk in and then ran down the main hallway screaming " HE'S GOT A GUN.... HE'S GOT A GUN. " She then crouched down in a corner sobbing " he's got a gun and a dog."
The craziest part though is nothing was done about her outburst and obvious mental health problem. She was back at work this morning
I know someone that survived the Las Vegas / Mandalay Bay shooting that has a similar reaction merely seeing pictures of guns. I'm now more inclined to think 'trauma' before describing it as 'mental health problem'. Maybe she had or someone close to her had gone through some gun-related trauma?

(I also know someone that didn't survive that Vegas shooting. Sad times.)
Emotional trauma, which is what is being discussed, can be called a "mental health issue" in the same way that "penetrating trauma" from a gunshot wound can be called a "physical health issue", it's just a more generalized description than emotional trauma. Very sorry to hear that you lost someone due to the shooter's horrific actions (I will not give him the dignity of using his name), and that your other friend has to deal with the emotional wounds he inflicted.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: Contains Politics)

Post by Stercutus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:12 am

norcalprep wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:21 pm
flybynight wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:24 am
Even when the USSR was breaking it we didn't see that level of crazy.
There is no level of crazy that can't be passed nowadays. Example, yesterday in one of the buildings my wife works at, a k- 9 officer and his dog arrived to give a presentation. One of the women who works in that building ,watched him walk in and then ran down the main hallway screaming " HE'S GOT A GUN.... HE'S GOT A GUN. " She then crouched down in a corner sobbing " he's got a gun and a dog."
The craziest part though is nothing was done about her outburst and obvious mental health problem. She was back at work this morning
I know someone that survived the Las Vegas / Mandalay Bay shooting that has a similar reaction merely seeing pictures of guns. I'm now more inclined to think 'trauma' before describing it as 'mental health problem'. Maybe she had or someone close to her had gone through some gun-related trauma?

(I also know someone that didn't survive that Vegas shooting. Sad times.)
Could be. I know every time I got back from Iraq it took me a while to adjust to sudden loud noises like fireworks and other explosion booms. Not "run down the hall in panic" type adjustment but everyone is a little different.

Some people have real issues and some people are attention whores. Hard to tell who is who sometimes until you deal with such people for a while.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by absinthe beginner » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:45 pm

Kaleb James Cole: Guns seized from suspected neo-Nazi leader over ‘race war’ fears

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 62876.html

Police officers have seized a haul of guns from the suspected leader of an American neo-Nazi group thought to be preparing for a “race war”, according to court documents.

Detectives confiscated five rifles, three pistols and other gun components from Kaleb James Cole, a 24-year-old who has admitted being a member of the Atomwaffen Division.

The neo-Nazi group believes that “violence, depravity and degeneracy” should be used for “racial cleansing” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The SPLC describes the organisation as a “series of terror cells”.

Mr Cole has not been charged with any crime.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by NT2C » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:13 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:45 pm
Kaleb James Cole: Guns seized from suspected neo-Nazi leader over ‘race war’ fears

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 62876.html

Police officers have seized a haul of guns from the suspected leader of an American neo-Nazi group thought to be preparing for a “race war”, according to court documents.

Detectives confiscated five rifles, three pistols and other gun components from Kaleb James Cole, a 24-year-old who has admitted being a member of the Atomwaffen Division.

The neo-Nazi group believes that “violence, depravity and degeneracy” should be used for “racial cleansing” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The SPLC describes the organisation as a “series of terror cells”.

Mr Cole has not been charged with any crime.
As repugnant as I may find such ideology, that last line worries me a lot more than Mr. Cole does.
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Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by flybynight » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:58 pm

NT2C wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:13 pm
absinthe beginner wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:45 pm
Kaleb James Cole: Guns seized from suspected neo-Nazi leader over ‘race war’ fears

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 62876.html

Police officers have seized a haul of guns from the suspected leader of an American neo-Nazi group thought to be preparing for a “race war”, according to court documents.

Detectives confiscated five rifles, three pistols and other gun components from Kaleb James Cole, a 24-year-old who has admitted being a member of the Atomwaffen Division.

The neo-Nazi group believes that “violence, depravity and degeneracy” should be used for “racial cleansing” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The SPLC describes the organisation as a “series of terror cells”.

Mr Cole has not been charged with any crime.
As repugnant as I may find such ideology, that last line worries me a lot more than Mr. Cole does.
Me too. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by Stercutus » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:52 pm

All these psychotic socialists running around are troubling. It is like Germany 1931.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by Langenator » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:57 am

In terms of what protest/resistance/unrest in major urban areas might look like, does anyone know of any good sites talking about what's going on in Hong Kong?

Discussion of what the protesters and the ChiCom government forces, and pro-government proxies and auxiliaries, are actually doing seems to largely get lost beneath all of the pearl clutching about the NBA's travails.

I would think it would be instructive, although anything like what's going on in HK were to happen here I would think the level of violence would escalate much further here, simply because the .gov forces aren't the only ones with guns .
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by boskone » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:49 pm

Langenator wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:57 am
Discussion of what the protesters and the ChiCom government forces, and pro-government proxies and auxiliaries, are actually doing seems to largely get lost beneath all of the pearl clutching about the NBA's travails.
I'm not sure that's un-intentional. While I might be getting an incorrect impression (since I don't watch TV and pay little attention to major news orgs outside of the broadest-strokes view), it seems like media doesn't really know what to do about it.

On the one hand, people standing up for their rights and liberty; on the other, people opposing their government en masse and showing that it can be done. On the third hand, the little guys standing up to the big corporations and thumbing their noses plays well to both sides of the aisle.

From an economic-safety perspective, it's an easy choice.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by Stercutus » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:51 pm

There is whole other thread on Hong Kong
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by absinthe beginner » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:33 pm

NT2C said: As repugnant as I may find such ideology, that last line worries me a lot more than Mr. Cole does.
First they came for the neo-Nazis, and I did not speak out because I was not a neo-Nazi....

https://shenandoahliterary.org/blog/201 ... niemoller/

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by Stercutus » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:54 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:33 pm
NT2C said: As repugnant as I may find such ideology, that last line worries me a lot more than Mr. Cole does.
First they came for the neo-Nazis, and I did not speak out because I was not a neo-Nazi....

https://shenandoahliterary.org/blog/201 ... niemoller/
That whole five murders thing really puts a crimp in it for me.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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