The Coming Civil War

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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boskone
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by boskone » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:30 pm

grumpyviking wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:53 am
its pretty much along the same lines as the US but supplies tend to be smaller in quantity as British houses especially modern ones are much smaller and don't have the storage that I believe you have on average in the states.
not many own a BOL maybe a caravan/trailer on a seaside caravan park but that's about it.
I think y'all have slightly stronger "rights to roam" than the US, though weaker than continental European countries. That might somewhat obviate the desire for a "place to get away", which is probably often a driving factor in the desire for a BoL (in addition to it's function as a disaster shelter).

I'll note that the US, as with many things, is very schizophrenic about property rights. We have a lot of public places to go, a lot of personal property rights, and a lot of intersections of the two.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by grumpyviking » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:57 am

we may have rights to roam but landowners are very touchy about trespassers, the best place to roam is our national parks of which there are several.
if anyone thinks they are just going to "live in the woods" in Britain then they are in for a surprise, sure any fool might be able to just about survive in the UK countryside in the Summer but in the winter they will be deader than last years mutton.
just roaming about HOPING to find food water and shelter is just delaying the inevitable, at least for the masses it is.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by grumpyviking » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:47 am

i'm also not a believer in the "Golden Horde" principle, not in the UK anyway, 80% of the UK population is urban and city based with city attitudes, most will not make it out of the cities alive when SHTF, they will leave it too late, that's if they even think of it at all.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:04 am

Same here in the US. Very few people have the skill sets needed to 'live off the land'. I don't. I will need to go somewhere where there is community & infrastructure. :? Merely having How To Stay Alive In The Woods with you means squat.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by grumpyviking » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:10 am

I can probably do it, I've done it in the past and will do so again, (someone on another forum said I was strong enough to do it! :lol: )but not many people will have that mindset, I expect the suicide rate to rocket when SHTF. the mortality rate will be huge once the infrastructure collapses.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:15 am

grumpyviking wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:10 am
I can probably do it, I've done it in the past and will do so again, (someone on another forum said I was strong enough to do it! :lol: )but not many people will have that mindset, I expect the suicide rate to rocket when SHTF. the mortality rate will be huge once the infrastructure collapses.
Ye, some folk can. Competition for resources will drop quickly, then level off after the first winter.

Then the wildlife population will grow & competition comes back. :wink:

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by grumpyviking » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:23 am

most ordinary people wont make it past the first winter, not in the UK once the power systems shut down and the central heating goes off.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by absinthe beginner » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:24 am

Getting through the first 90 days will probably be the most critical. Especially after the "nine missed meals" fun kicks in. Those who had the foresight to prepare, and have the will and means to defend what's theirs, will probably have a somewhat easier time once the Golden Horde has been considerably thinned out through starvation, disease, and fighting over whatever resources they manage to steal.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by Zed Hunter » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:51 am

On another forum, (where they discuss forming lead etc into dangerous shapes), someone posted about "those yellow vest protesters", in France. This is a precursor to French society collapsing, or another revolution. If the USA continues to follow Europe into socialism the same thing will happen here. The average French worker is taxed about 50% of their income. Everything is so expensive that their salaries are spent by the 20th of the month. The trigger of these protests was the proposed increase in fuel taxes.

I'll bet that if we add up all the taxes we pay, we aren't very far from 50% taxation dispite the Trump tax break. Add the proposed carbon tax, (how do you tax an element?), and we may surpass that %. Taken to an extreme big brother will install a respiration monitor on all oxi breathers to tax carbon emissions.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by NT2C » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:03 am

Ahem... politics
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by grumpyviking » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:06 am

absinthe beginner wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:24 am
Getting through the first 90 days will probably be the most critical. Especially after the "nine missed meals" fun kicks in. Those who had the foresight to prepare, and have the will and means to defend what's theirs, will probably have a somewhat easier time once the Golden Horde has been considerably thinned out through starvation, disease, and fighting over whatever resources they manage to steal.
most people in the UK have less than 5 days worth of food in the house, some in the big cities shop daily for only that days meal, so once the stores are empty, + the fact that the average person can only live for 30 days without food and 3 days without water, i think it will be a lot quieter long before 90 days are past. some will "scavange" but a lot of that will be wasted, trashed and fought over. glad i am a long way away from any big city.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by grumpyviking » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:07 am

NT2C wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:03 am
Ahem... politics
least of our problems POST SHTF.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:37 am

grumpyviking wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:06 am
absinthe beginner wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:24 am
Getting through the first 90 days will probably be the most critical. Especially after the "nine missed meals" fun kicks in. Those who had the foresight to prepare, and have the will and means to defend what's theirs, will probably have a somewhat easier time once the Golden Horde has been considerably thinned out through starvation, disease, and fighting over whatever resources they manage to steal.
most people in the UK have less than 5 days worth of food in the house, some in the big cities shop daily for only that days meal, so once the stores are empty, + the fact that the average person can only live for 30 days without food and 3 days without water, i think it will be a lot quieter long before 90 days are past. some will "scavenge" but a lot of that will be wasted, trashed and fought over. glad i am a long way away from any big city.
I can see this happening throughout the world. We Humans have adapted to modern culture. Long-term, people will have move out to a rural area & work with the community there.

Best done before hand.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by Zed Hunter » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:17 pm

No the cause of civil unrest resulting in the title of this thread.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by grumpyviking » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:14 am

any societal collapse will definitely be UNcivil. at least for a short while .
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by woodsghost » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:56 pm

kickback wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:12 pm
Not to get Political...
I'm not sure how this adds to the conversation? And it does lean heavily in an overtly political direction without a lot of helpful things to say. But I'm sure you do have other thoughts which could be more helpful. I think this post could benefit from some re-wording.

If anything bad happens, I'm sure it will affect the genders differently. Life would suck no matter what.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by absinthe beginner » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:05 pm

Not to get Political...
(redacted by NT2C - please don't quote things that break the rules)
Two things:

1. This is skirting the line of the no-politics rule. Let's not go there.
2. Individual pre-SHTF labels and belief systems, I suspect, are going to undergo some wrenching shifts as a result of what people see and experience first hand if things go pear-shaped. People will adjust their belief systems and pre-conceived notions accordingly. They might also discover that things aren't quite as cut and dried as they may have imagined.

For purposes of our discussions, I propose we stick to two broad categories of people: Those who are decent, and those that aren't. After any SHTF scenario, those are the only two classifications that are going to matter.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by NT2C » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:08 pm

And... (you knew it was coming)... Thread locked for moderator review.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by NT2C » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:28 pm

Thread cleaned, freshened with the scent of wildflowers and peaches. Please do not deposit any further manure in it.

Unlocked.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except sailors. They will kill you and sing songs about it.

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by flybynight » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:23 am

For purposes of our discussions, I propose we stick to two broad categories of people: Those who are decent, and those that aren't. After any SHTF scenario, those are the only two classifications that are going to matter.
For the purposes of our discussion. If people followed these, PRE-shtf . There probably wouldn't be a coming civil war.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by absinthe beginner » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:22 am

flybynight said: For the purposes of our discussion. If people followed these, PRE-shtf . There probably wouldn't be a coming civil war.

I still don't think there's going to be a coming civil war, as most people are still sane and sane people want no part of any such conflict, and have a strong aversion to harming others. However, if we have a full-scale economic collapse - a much more probable scenario, IMHO, given our unsustainable public and private debt situation, then we could see fissures along various societal fault lines, but that would be more an "each against all" scenario. Which might even be worse.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that all we can do is remember that one day we will give an account to our Creator for what we did or didn't do in this life, and try to live accordingly. That includes trying to reach out to people who hold views that are diametrically opposed to my own, and see if we can't find some common ground. It also means looking out for my neighbors. The rest, other than making prudent preparations for whatever happens to come down the pike, is pretty much out of my hands.

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by grumpyviking » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:24 am

I call it societal collapse not civil war.
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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:40 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:22 am
flybynight said: For the purposes of our discussion. If people followed these, PRE-shtf . There probably wouldn't be a coming civil war.

I still don't think there's going to be a coming civil war, as most people are still sane and sane people want no part of any such conflict, and have a strong aversion to harming others. However, if we have a full-scale economic collapse - a much more probable scenario, IMHO, given our unsustainable public and private debt situation, then we could see fissures along various societal fault lines, but that would be more an "each against all" scenario. Which might even be worse.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that all we can do is remember that one day we will give an account to our Creator for what we did or didn't do in this life, and try to live accordingly. That includes trying to reach out to people who hold views that are diametrically opposed to my own, and see if we can't find some common ground. It also means looking out for my neighbors. The rest, other than making prudent preparations for whatever happens to come down the pike, is pretty much out of my hands.
I am not seeing how anything discussed above could happen with speed needed so that no one could do anything to stop it.

It reminds me of Y2K:

1. "It's going to happen & there is nothing that anyone can do about it".

2. The livelyhoods of the majority of the planet would be affected.

3. Who in their right minds would want to allow such. i.e. - sit back and let it happen: see #1.

4. some people were brought back in the labor market, some to work, but some to teach the 'kids' old code so "the world didn't end".

I'm not seeing the number of people necessary just sitting around & not 'doing anything' for: Civil War, Societal Collapse, Total Economic Collapse; or as occurred to me:
...dogs & cats, in IKEA, holding hands, looking at nursery furniture...


Am I making sense... :?:

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Re: The Coming Civil War

Post by NT2C » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:46 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:40 pm
absinthe beginner wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:22 am
flybynight said: For the purposes of our discussion. If people followed these, PRE-shtf . There probably wouldn't be a coming civil war.

I still don't think there's going to be a coming civil war, as most people are still sane and sane people want no part of any such conflict, and have a strong aversion to harming others. However, if we have a full-scale economic collapse - a much more probable scenario, IMHO, given our unsustainable public and private debt situation, then we could see fissures along various societal fault lines, but that would be more an "each against all" scenario. Which might even be worse.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that all we can do is remember that one day we will give an account to our Creator for what we did or didn't do in this life, and try to live accordingly. That includes trying to reach out to people who hold views that are diametrically opposed to my own, and see if we can't find some common ground. It also means looking out for my neighbors. The rest, other than making prudent preparations for whatever happens to come down the pike, is pretty much out of my hands.
I am not seeing how anything discussed above could happen with speed needed so that no one could do anything to stop it.

It reminds me of Y2K:

1. "It's going to happen & there is nothing that anyone can do about it".

2. The livelyhoods of the majority of the planet would be affected.

3. Who in their right minds would want to allow such. i.e. - sit back and let it happen: see #1.

4. some people were brought back in the labor market, some to work, but some to teach the 'kids' old code so "the world didn't end".

I'm not seeing the number of people necessary just sitting around & not 'doing anything' for: Civil War, Societal Collapse, Total Economic Collapse; or as occurred to me:
...dogs & cats, in IKEA, holding hands, looking at nursery furniture...


Am I making sense... :?:
Have you looked at France recently?
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except sailors. They will kill you and sing songs about it.

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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