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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:43 pm 
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Each item has its own mylar bag and Ill be mixing the buckets up. Not just rice in one bucket and beans in another. Ive ordered the mylar bags in 1 gallon and half gallon sizes. Now its time to go to costco and do some shopping.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:21 pm 
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gimmejr wrote:
Each item has its own mylar bag and Ill be mixing the buckets up. Not just rice in one bucket and beans in another. Ive ordered the mylar bags in 1 gallon and half gallon sizes. Now its time to go to costco and do some shopping.


Cool beans as they say - I went with the 1 gal size for our storage, seemed about right for what we had planed.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Well finally finished mine. What took so long was freezing stuff in stages, I have no room in the freezer.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:21 pm 
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I've done something very similar with beans, rice, and oats. I used a food saver and pulled all of the air out of several bags of each. Some smaller and some larger depending. If you can't find O2 absorbers you can use a HOTHANDS hand warmer in the bag. It works by the same chemical reaction and can burn the air out of a higher volume bucket. I recently got a few mylar bags to try and am waiting on getting some food safe buckets from my dad befor I use them. I got the mylar bags from amazon. Just adding some of my own experiences there.

Oh, I almost forgot. I did the same thing by putting salt in food saver bags as well. Just to keep the moisture out more than anything else. in a SHTF world you can never have too much salt. You can use is for food prepping and about a million other things. Works great as a barter item. That's where we get the expression....THAT MAN IS WORTH HIS SALT.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:11 pm 
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gimmejr wrote:
Well finally finished mine. What took so long was freezing stuff in stages, I have no room in the freezer.


LOL
We just leave ours in the car for a couple of days, This winter it hit -20 F far too often.

Glad you hear you got it all done. Did you mark the bags or the buckets?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:31 am 
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Yup, marked both. I was thinking I could get more then I did in the buckets but ran out of room. When the O2 absorbers do their work, the bags become very stiff and there is not a lot of give in them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:06 pm 
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I need to do this with one of the GIANT 50lb bags of rice from the asian store. I can't stand that long-grained stuff you white people eat (I kid, I kid! :wink: ) The only problem I have right now is storage. My little condo is pretty full but I should be getting a house next year so there will be room soon enough (I hope).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:12 am 
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WELCOME to all the new ZS members that have signed up of late.

Sources of items used:

DIY supplies and food = http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/ ... -1__195787

Mylar bags and O2 scrubbers

O2 scrubbers http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/ ... -1__195877

Bags http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/ ... -1__195615 (one gallon bags) Use one gallon bags, then put the bags inside of a platic bucket

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:46 pm 
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TacAir wrote:
WELCOME to all the new ZS members that have signed up of late.

What
We put some rice and bean in storage last night - pretty wild, eh? Anyway, two bags of black beans, 25 lbs ea; one bag of long grain white rice, enriched, 50 lbs. ...<snip>... The experimentation was extensive, lasting an entire beer.
<choke/cough cough, then began laughing>

TacAir wrote:
Note - You can fit up to an additional two cups in each bag, but then the bag becomes very fussy to get closed and sealed. YMMV. Beer was not a factor in this seal testing.
This is becoming quite a good read.

TacAir wrote:
Future planned experiments
The 'leftover' product was set aside for future efforts aimed at experiments in cooking two cup lots to determine the optimum methodology for soaking/cooking and servicing. That and we had reached our beer limit.
Informative AND entertaining.

This is 'tagged' to keep reading new posts on this topic. I need to learn this stuff. :!:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Here's anther angle on the daily raw rice calculation and reasoning.

If 1/2 cup of cooked long grain rice equals 80 calories and we want to have enough energy to be able to move outside, set/retrieve traps, fish, cut wood, fight zombies, etc. We'll need a minimum of 1200 calories a day. Probably more toward 2500. Rice/Beans may well be the least expensive long term storable food stuff. According to the 'new' balanced diet pyramid*, grains should be 20% of your caloric intake. 1200 X 20% = 240 colories or 1 1/2 cups cooked rice per day per person which could be served in three 1/2 cup servings per day.

So calculate purchases and storage based on using 1/2 cup raw rice per day per person. Which = 1 1/2 cups cooked. or 3 cups cooked if you need 2500 cal/day [unless suplimenting another grain]

8 bags hold 14 cups/bag = 50lb bag therefore there are 112 cups in a 50lb bag. With that in mind we get 224 days of rice per 50lb bag for one person. According to the 'new' pyramid*, beans can take the place of meats, which meats and beans should equal 20% of your daily coloric intake also or 240 cal. just need another 720 calories in fruits, veggies, and milk/cheese and that's that.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:21 pm 
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MacWa77ace wrote:
Here's anther angle on the daily raw rice calculation and reasoning.

If 1/2 cup of cooked long grain rice equals 80 calories and we want to have enough energy to be able to move outside, set/retrieve traps, fish, cut wood, fight zombies, etc. We'll need a minimum of 1200 calories a day. Probably more toward 2500. Rice/Beans may well be the least expensive long term storable food stuff. According to the 'new' balanced diet pyramid*, grains should be 20% of your caloric intake. 1200 X 20% = 240 colories or 1 1/2 cups cooked rice per day per person which could be served in three 1/2 cup servings per day.

So calculate purchases and storage based on using 1/2 cup raw rice per day per person. Which = 1 1/2 cups cooked. or 3 cups cooked if you need 2500 cal/day [unless suplimenting another grain]

8 bags hold 14 cups/bag = 50lb bag therefore there are 112 cups in a 50lb bag. With that in mind we get 37.3 days of rice per 50lb bag for one person. [the .3 could be breakfast on the 38th day]

According to the 'new' pyramid*, beans can take the place of meats, which meats and beans should equal 20% of your daily coloric intake also or 240 cal. just need another 720 calories in fruits, veggies, and milk/cheese and that's that.

*myPlate http://www.choosemyplate.gov


Let me do a math check.

50 lbs bag of rice = 8 storage bags (1 gallon) of 14 cups of raw rice each.

25 lbs bags of beans = 4 storage bags (1 gallon) of 14 cups of dried beans.

1/2 cup of raw rice = 1.5 cups cooked rice and
1 cup of dried beans yield 2 to 3 cups of cooked beans. Call it 2.5 per single cup dried.

14 cups raw rice = 28 1/2 cup raw rice = 42 cups of cooked rice. so then each 1 gallon bag yields 42 cups of cooked rice. 8 storage bags = 336 cups of cooked rice. 1.5 cups/day (384/1.5) = 224 days /person/50 lb bag of raw rice.

14 cups dried beans = 35 cups of cooked beans. Call it a cup a day or 35 days per 1 gallon storage bag or 140 days/25 lb bag of beans.
To balance out my storage (more or less) I need an additional 116 days worth of beans - or 84 cups. Call that 3 more 1 gallon bags of dried beans. So, call it another bag of beans.

or

For each 50 pound bag of rice, you should have 50 pounds (more or less) of died beans. This will give you around 224 days of food (beans and rice) per person per 100 pounds of dried product.

Calories count would be
218 calories in 1 cup of Black Beans
240 calories in 1.5 cups cooked rice
458 calories/day and that is well short of a balanced diet or even a 'survival' level of nutrition.

1.5 oz of peanut butter (250 Cal) and 2 Sailor Boy biscuits (200 cal) adds 450 calories, so now you have
908 calories.

So, lets add a breakfast of 1 cup of oatmeal (300), 1.5 oz of raisins (90) a couple of CoffeeMates (30) and a packet of sugar (15) is 435 calories and pretty filling. Whole milk would be better.
That brings us up to 1343 calories/day and now you are no longer staving to death.

Add a slice (4 oz) of SPAM! @ 250 calories to your beans and rice at dinner and you now have -
1593 calories per day.

This exercise is well worth the time to take in menu planning for your storage food.

1 cup of whole wheat flour gives you 407 calories
1 cup Wheat Flour, White, All-purpose, Enriched, Bleached is 455 calories...and on and on.

So - how many have done the math? You just might surprise yourself...

And thanks to MACWA77ACE for bringing up the math issue set...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:09 pm 
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TacAir wrote:
Calories count would be
218 calories in 1 cup of Black Beans
240 calories in 1.5 cups cooked rice
458 calories/day and that is well short of a balanced diet or even a 'survival' level of nutrition.


Remember this is just the grain and meat portion of the daily balanced diet which only makes up 40% of the total. The other 60% is fruits, veggies, dairy. added together they should total 1200 calorie minimum, which is survival level at best I agree.

TacAir wrote:
1.5 oz of peanut butter (250 Cal) and 2 Sailor Boy biscuits (200 cal) adds 450 calories, so now you have
908 calories.

So, lets add a breakfast of 1 cup of oatmeal (300), 1.5 oz of raisins (90) a couple of CoffeeMates (30) and a packet of sugar (15) is 435 calories and pretty filling. Whole milk would be better.
That brings us up to 1343 calories/day and now you are no longer staving to death.

Add a slice (4 oz) of SPAM! @ 250 calories to your beans and rice at dinner and you now have -
1593 calories per day.


If you're adding the oatmeal/biscuits just to bring up the calories you've 'unbalanced the diet' as it is also a grain like rice. Luckily Complex Carbs are not bad, especially if you need the energy, and oatmeal is a great food when purchased as a cookable grain as opposed to the prepackaged candied breakfast crap. So adding oatmeal as extra calories - good - as long as the diet is balanced first. And it is filling.

I assumed there would be some hunting/fishing/foraging to add additional protein/fats and calories. But that of course may be unrealiable. And because you can eat meats and beans in the same meal and the beans turn into the veggie portion of the pyramid you can keep the beans in the daily food budget for planning your stockpile even when you 'catch something'.

An alternative to whole milk is powdered milk, it has higher protein, but no fat though, and stores very well. Calculator time, 14 cups/bag = ? oz of drinkable milk, etc. etc. and you have how many cups/bags of powdered milk to stockpile. And what about dried potatoe flakes as extra Carbs, and freeze dried eggs for protein and fat? Possibly stockpile vitamins as a suppliment, but they're iffy in their absorption IRL. The one a days usually come in 365 count containers.

Some thoughts on canned meats like Spam. In a PAW, there would not be any kind of refrigeration and you don't want to be waisting resources cleaning containers, so IMO if you open a can of meat it should be consumed at that meal in its entirety and the diet should be adjusted for that day and maybe the next if need be. FFT: There is reference to the Zombie Apocalypse on the Spam website. http://www.spam.com/spam-101/what-is-the-shelf-life-of-spam-products As an example figure 1 can of Spam in one meal every third day. 224 / 3 = 75 cans to last the 224 days. Every other day, 112 cans.

ETA: If a 50lb bag of rice is a benchmark for 224 day balanced diet supply for one person. and you calculate every other part of your foodstores to make it to 224 days/person. Then after you reach your 224 day storage goal, you can then double everything you have to get to 448 days or two people to 224 days, or 4 people to 112 days, and so on until you run out of storage space.

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Last edited by MacWa77ace on Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:58 am 
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TacAir wrote:
So - how many have done the math? You just might surprise yourself...

And thanks to MACWA77ACE for bringing up the math issue set...

Actually, I did the math last year, said something like "O Snot! I need a lot more food!" I felt like I hadn't made much progress since winter, and was bummed - but I took your challenge and did the math again. On 1200 kcal/day, I can get my current household thru the Siege of Leningrad. :shock: :mrgreen: It'll be monotonous, we'll need the vitamins. Relatively speaking - it's not that much rice & beans. (and wheat. And oatmeal. And oil.) I'm still not done - I need more variety/balance, and I am prepping for more than just the current household. But - this lets me reprioritize my resources right now, I really can focus on some other things.

MacWa77ace wrote:
If you're adding the oatmeal just to bring up the calories you've 'unbalanced the diet' as it is also a grain like rice.

I confess, at the survival levels I'm currently at, I don't worry about sticking to the MyPlate balance (tho it is a healthy and desirable one imo). I worry about calories, sufficient protein (I have a bunch of beans), and then covering other nutrients. What running the numbers pointed out to me was that I HAVE the protein/calorie issue covered. What I have not yet added adds other nutrients, balance, and variety - which are important, but a balanced diet of insufficient calories vs and unbalanced one of sufficient calories for survival - I'm going with unbalanced first, then work on balance.

Your point about refrigeration in a PAW and opening cans is well taken. I do my calculations on cans or jars of X per week. For example, at 1 can of meat/week, we're good for the whole siege, but at 2 cans of tomato product a week we're only good for a year. (Seriously, that couple extra cans every time you go to the store adds up!) My goal is to have a 2 week menu plan, with enough to serve that menu plan 26 times.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:11 am 
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I just sent a letter to a friend that has another site - the idea was 'what could you get for 100 USD for storage that gives a good $/calorie ratio. Several folks had replied 'beans' - not bad, but for 100 USD, you can have flour, cornmeal, rice, beans and other items like meat, sugar and honey/sugar.

The idea is that with some basic items, you can make a wide variety of menu items, some with minimal cooking times. This is where knowledge part comes it.

With these simple items, you can make flour or corn tortillas, bread, cornbread, pancakes, noodles, pasta and on and on. So part of the planning process should include recipes, ones you have tried and know your family will eat - and make that part of your overall planning > in turn driving your food choices.

As noted above 15# of beans and 25# of rice - with all the other items can form a basic unit - say for a month, allowing you to upgrade/increase your supplies in smaller units as your finances will permit.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:37 am 
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duodecima wrote:
MacWa77ace wrote:
If you're adding the oatmeal just to bring up the calories you've 'unbalanced the diet' as it is also a grain like rice.

I confess, at the survival levels I'm currently at, I don't worry about sticking to the MyPlate balance (tho it is a healthy and desirable one imo). I worry about calories, sufficient protein (I have a bunch of beans), and then covering other nutrients. What running the numbers pointed out to me was that I HAVE the protein/calorie issue covered. What I have not yet added adds other nutrients, balance, and variety - which are important, but a balanced diet of insufficient calories vs and unbalanced one of sufficient calories for survival - I'm going with unbalanced first, then work on balance.


We'll the myPlate thing is a great way to look at your foodstores so you stockpile in the right ratios. Then you don't have to worry about getting scurvy or other malnutritional problems. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001441/ Missing a single vitamin in the diet can cause problems. Do you have enough dried fruits? Vitimin C. Once you get the minimums and daily intake down [Ex: 1 1/2 cups beans and rice each |cooked|, 4 oz meat, 16 oz milk, fruit/veggies, 1 tsp oil, salt or other electrolyte replacement] then you add the calories like Potatoes, pasta, bread, BigMac, power bar, baby ruth bar, BBQ sewer rats, etc on top of your minimum to add calories.

But when your rationing and working on absolute minimums for survival and long term food store budgeting this is just the starting point. 1200 calories a day takes a lot of getting used to, if you plan in advance you can plan for 2500 calories. BTW 1200 calories is an average and YMMV.

Here's another resources thought. We may want to switch to a one meal a day plan to economize time, physical energy, and fuel. 3 meals a day is a modern practice.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:48 pm 
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MacWa77ace wrote:
We'll the myPlate thing is a great way to look at your foodstores so you stockpile in the right ratios. Then you don't have to worry about getting scurvy or other malnutritional problems. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001441/ Missing a single vitamin in the diet can cause problems. Do you have enough dried fruits? Vitimin C. Once you get the minimums and daily intake down [Ex: 1 1/2 cups beans and rice each |cooked|, 4 oz meat, 16 oz milk, fruit/veggies, 1 tsp oil, salt or other electrolyte replacement] then you add the calories like Potatoes, pasta, bread, BigMac, power bar, baby ruth bar, BBQ sewer rats, etc on top of your minimum to add calories.

But when your rationing and working on absolute minimums for survival and long term food store budgeting this is just the starting point. 1200 calories a day takes a lot of getting used to, if you plan in advance you can plan for 2500 calories. BTW 1200 calories is an average and YMMV.

Here's another resources thought. We may want to switch to a one meal a day plan to economize time, physical energy, and fuel. 3 meals a day is a modern practice.

Oh, Vit C is a problem, since it just doesn't last forever, and doesn't do well with heat... I have Vit C tabs, at the moment. But I agree with you - I've got squash, spinach, carrots, beets, etc. to provide some variety - just not enough, yet. And 1200 kcal would indeed be a huge change - I am planning for a higher target kcal/person/day - it's just good to realize I've gotten to a survivable number of kcal already. That doesn't mean I think I'm done!

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Just an update - rather than a normal Necro.

I just put up an additional 75 pounds of rice and beans today, using the same 7 mil one gallon bags sourced from the LDS folks linked to earlier in this thread.

I now suggest that that only 12 cups of product (rice or beans) per bag is better than my earlier suggestion of 14 cups,
The bag doesn't budge as much, making storage a bit easier and less product makes sealing the bags much less fussy.

I went ahead and used the hot wire sealer for an initial seal, then hit the top of he bag with an iron as well.

Four of the gallon bags still fill a 5 gallon bucket.

That is all.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:50 am 
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This thread is so full of win. Thanks for the update so now I can see this for the future.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:28 pm 
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Good stuff here, Zombie Squad. I'm learning a lot and am about to upgrade much of my dry goods to the Mylar level.

I'm probably going to use the 5 gallon mylar bags in the 5 gallon bucket option since there are so many of us in the group. Has anyone had trouble with them?

How about the new ziploc mylar bags? I've seen them for sale online but haven't seen any feedback on them anywhere. That seems ridiculously easy and too good to be true.

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I still use the good old fashioned mylar bags and add my own ziplocs and directions in each bucket.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:58 am 
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Zimmy wrote:
Good stuff here, Zombie Squad. I'm learning a lot and am about to upgrade much of my dry goods to the Mylar level.

I'm probably going to use the 5 gallon mylar bags in the 5 gallon bucket option since there are so many of us in the group. Has anyone had trouble with them?

How about the new ziploc mylar bags? I've seen them for sale online but haven't seen any feedback on them anywhere. That seems ridiculously easy and too good to be true.


My biggest concern, and why I haven't used any to date would be what I consider the lack of a positive seal, that is to say, hard to break.
When I iron a bag shut, I know it will not leak until I open it.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:32 am 
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Does anybody have reviews/experiences buying mylar bags/OAs from non-LDS sources? I'd rather not give money to the Mormon church, but I also don't want to buy crummy bags and find out down the road that they've developed leaks.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:00 am 
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Bought mine from Amazon and never had a problem.

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Another sorta update.

I normally store Dairy X brand dry milk - non-instant, non-fat dry milk. With almost no fat, it stores very well.

For fun, I picked up a container of Nido (a product of Mexico, by Nestle) - dry whole milk.

The container is made of cardboard, much like you find in baby formula, and almost exactly the same size - less than an oz difference.

The NIDO® FORTIFICADA has extra vitamins. With a Use BY date on the can I picked up of May of next year, this gives a shelf life of of 6 months to a year. Check the label before purchase.

So- why did I buy this? In the winter, I make oatmeal for breakfast and keep a square of Ultra-pasturized milk to add in. The taste of that milk is an acquired taste to say the least. So, for the last few mornings, I added two tablespoons of Nido to the dry oatmeal - quick, not instant oatmeal.

I must say that I'll be adding Nido to my storage rotation - it gives a nice, full flavor, certainly as good as whole milk.

It won't store long term, due to the fat content - but if you are looking for milk for a camping trip - and don't want to deal with ice or the taste of the room temperature UT - then Nido offers a good alternative. Mix just before use and you are good to go. Pre-building breakfast pacs or oatmeal, sugar and Nico makes that meal a snap - I'm sure you can find other uses as well.

That is all, back your regularly programmed content....

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