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New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:27 am
by PistolPete
Good day. We've had a couple disputes regarding the Trading Post as of late, and we've decided to make some changes to try to better protect our members. Starting in one week, the only people who will have rights to post in the Trading Post will be ZS members. This means if you are a forum member but not a ZS member you will not be able to post an ad nor reply to any ads. Forum members will be able to view the ads and you are welcome to PM the OP if you are interested in purchasing.

This move will probably wrile some feathers, but we feel this is the best possible move we can make. Even though we make it clear that the admins here are not responsible for non-payment or non-delivery of goods, we always try to help out when there is a dispute and they often take a half dozen hours of mod attention to get to the bottom of. We've found that typically these disputes involve newer members that are only forum members and not ZS members. This seemed like a logical step to protect the members from disreputable folks.

This does not mean that we are going to start advocating for buyers or sellers. You are still on your own, don't engage in a transaction with someone you don't trust. There are a lot of jackasses on the internet that will steal your money and not lose a minute of sleep over it.

If you have any comments, questions or concerns, don't hesitate to contact me directly or reply to this thread.

If this action has inspired you to join so you may still participate in the Trading Post, you can find information on that here:
http://zombiehunters.org/members/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:36 am
by Necrodamus
Thank you!
This will also eliminate those pesky little spam ads.
While it my not be favored by everyone I think it is a good direction.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:30 pm
by NoAm
ZS Membership has it's priveleges. I Love the idea and the Mr. and I are ready to join anyway :D I think it will also protect the forum from fly-by night sellers or other possible problems.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:41 pm
by The Highwayman
Awesome! Very, very good idea Pete! Well done!

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:44 pm
by JTNieman
Hopefully this doesn't make it so that the fraudulent BIDDERS now have a cloak of secrecy with good excuse to avoid public posting.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:46 pm
by phil_in_cs
JamesCannon wrote:Hopefully this doesn't make it so that the fraudulent BIDDERS now have a cloak of secrecy with good excuse to avoid public posting.
You don't have to accept bids. This isn't ebay.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:54 pm
by The Highwayman
phil_in_cs wrote:
JamesCannon wrote:Hopefully this doesn't make it so that the fraudulent BIDDERS now have a cloak of secrecy with good excuse to avoid public posting.
You don't have to accept bids. This isn't ebay.

Not only that, but since they will only be allowed to buy not sell, all the seller needs to do is wait for payment to clear before shipping, which is a good policy when dealing with someone you don't know personally anyways. WIN! :D

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:50 am
by 11b20
uh-oh new guy troll alert.......

if i wanted to pay to sell my shit i would go to ebay. ya some people might douche out on deals but that is life when you buy shit over the internet. everyone knows this it is stated in your origional "read this first" post.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:51 am
by Subdiver
11b20 wrote:uh-oh new guy troll alert.......

if i wanted to pay to sell my shit i would go to ebay. ya some people might douche out on deals but that is life when you buy shit over the internet. everyone knows this it is stated in your origional "read this first" post.
I'll bite...

Last time I checked, ZS wasn't about buying and selling. It's great that we can exchange goods here, but this is a privilege, not a right. If you're uptight about paying $15 to join a charitable organization, and are more concerned about selling stuff, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

Just sayin'

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:22 am
by phil_in_cs
The Highwayman wrote:
phil_in_cs wrote:
JamesCannon wrote:Hopefully this doesn't make it so that the fraudulent BIDDERS now have a cloak of secrecy with good excuse to avoid public posting.
You don't have to accept bids. This isn't ebay.

Not only that, but since they will only be allowed to buy not sell, all the seller needs to do is wait for payment to clear before shipping, which is a good policy when dealing with someone you don't know personally anyways. WIN! :D
It's bigger for me, since I don't sell/trade that much stuff. When you only do 3-4 a year, it is much more difficult to wade through the trusted list.
Subdiver wrote:
11b20 wrote:uh-oh new guy troll alert.......

if i wanted to pay to sell my shit i would go to ebay. ya some people might douche out on deals but that is life when you buy shit over the internet. everyone knows this it is stated in your origional "read this first" post.
I'll bite...

Last time I checked, ZS wasn't about buying and selling. It's great that we can exchange goods here, but this is a privilege, not a right. If you're uptight about paying $15 to join a charitable organization, and are more concerned about selling stuff, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

Just sayin'
Exactly. You need to join ZS because you need to join ZS. Being able to sell stuff is a bonus.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:25 am
by jor-el
Once again the forum embarks on a lip-biting change of policy.

I don't see this turning into another Hacknarok, but that's what you said about Hacknarok.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:32 am
by TDW586
jor-el wrote:Hacknarok
Never happened.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:58 am
by Chris@MTCT
Good call!

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:25 am
by Necrodamus
Hmmm, me ponders...

It seems that the those who might complain are the ones who wish to sell items here without paying $15 dollars.

Fees on fleabay would equal that rather quickly.

Fleabay doesnt provide all the wonderful info that ZS has here.

To find a book(s) that contained all the info we have here would easily cost more than ten times the yearly fees.

I dont understand!
Do people not realize the cost involved in hosting a forum this size?
What about the admins, the mods, the arbitors?
Like'm or not they are donating time to keep a little order around here.

[RANT] If you think a forum would be better as a totally unrefrained place to post whatever you want then by all means host your own! I think you wouldnt like it after awhile and you wouldnt want to pay the bills to host it either! [/RANT] :evil:

Simple solution...
Man up (or woman up), pay your dues, sell what you want, HAVE HONOR in your transactions!
Maybe I have just been lucky but so far all of my transactions have been good ones.
Either way I see this as a good RESPONSIBLE move.
Thanks ZS :!:

As many are probably wishing... I will shutup now. :mrgreen:

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:32 am
by JTNieman
The Highwayman wrote:
phil_in_cs wrote:
JamesCannon wrote:Hopefully this doesn't make it so that the fraudulent BIDDERS now have a cloak of secrecy with good excuse to avoid public posting.
You don't have to accept bids. This isn't ebay.
Not only that, but since they will only be allowed to buy not sell, all the seller needs to do is wait for payment to clear before shipping, which is a good policy when dealing with someone you don't know personally anyways. WIN! :D
Very good point. I'm not sure I thought my statement through very far before posting.

The only problem I see now, is an offer for trade. If a deplorable character had posted in public that he wished to trade, a knowledgeable/experienced bystander may notice this and warn the OP. Now the deplorable character may have an excusable cloak of secrecy by which to offer a barter. Obviously -any- barter is equally risky on both sides and neither may wish to "send first" but eh... proceed at your own risk.

I guess, when thinking things through, this eliminates almost all probable cases of fraud except for those where the poster is at fault. Grats.

I offer to the critics:

If you're so concerned with buying and selling on ZS, why can't you bother ponying up the.. what... $3? $10? for a -year- of membership? I can only see this being a problem if you don't -care- about ZombieSquad and are -only- here to exploit it's existence for personal gain. There may be few people who cannot budget in the donation, but if they really care about the site and have some gear to offer for sale... I'm reasonably sure they would have made friends with enough people around here that one of the members they've befriended may be willing to orchestrate the sale by proxy.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:36 am
by JTNieman
Necrodamus wrote: Simple solution...
Man up (or woman up), pay your dues, sell what you want, HAVE HONOR in your transactions!
Maybe I have just been lucky but so far all of my transactions have been good ones.
Either way I see this as a good RESPONSIBLE move.
Thanks ZS :!:

As many are probably wishing... I will shutup now. :mrgreen:

I'm not so quick to criticize the people who are unable to donate. There's a professional forum that I've been a member of for like... 4 or so years now, very actively. I've given -some- professional assistance, tech support, help, CAD resources, etc, as well as participated socially very much... but I've received much more than I've given in knowledge and professional education. It was only this past Christmas that I found myself in a position to donate to the site that's helped me -so much-. Every time I got a bonus I would think to myself that I could finally try and give back to the pond I've taken so much from... only to see my bills and debts swallow it up too fast. Never the less, it was not a lack of 'manning up' or a lack of any other virtue. It was just life.

Hell, if a prominent member who seems accountable on this site does NOT have a membership, and wishes to conduct business in the Trading Post... and can't scrape together the dollars.

PM me. If I feel safe enough donating in your name, maybe I'll buy you a membership. I like ZS. I have no problem giving more money for the volumes of lessons and resources I've learned here.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:42 am
by NoAm
Necrodamus wrote:[RANT] If you think a forum would be better as a totally unrefrained place to post whatever you want then by all means host your own! I think you wouldnt like it after awhile and you wouldnt want to pay the bills to host it either! [/RANT] :evil:

Simple solution...
Man up (or woman up), pay your dues, sell what you want, HAVE HONOR in your transactions!
Maybe I have just been lucky but so far all of my transactions have been good ones.
Either way I see this as a good RESPONSIBLE move.
Thanks ZS :!:

As many are probably wishing... I will shutup now. :mrgreen:
Okay, okay Nec I am going to pick out our pics for our badges now! Just kidding, really though we need to get our butts in gear and "do it" I actually love the member ruling for selling. Protection and Priveleges................................Join or DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen:

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:00 am
by dogbane
This isn't a capricious decision but a response to some time-consuming problems relating to the Trading Post. The moderators should not have to spend so much time policing the Trading Post and this appeared to be the best solution to the problems. It's regrettable that some long-time trusted forum users will find themselves excluded. I hope this policy change motivates them to finally officially join ZS.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:16 am
by PistolPete
I appreciate everyone's feedback. One of the other options was to ditch the trading post altogether, as it takes more effort than any other forum section to keep up with. But users have asked repeatedly for this service, so we tried to come up with a good way to make it safer.

For anyone who is annoyed they are losing access, we are open to consider other ideas if you have them.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:48 am
by jor-el
dogbane wrote:This isn't a capricious decision but a response to some time-consuming problems relating to the Trading Post. The moderators should not have to spend so much time policing the Trading Post and this appeared to be the best solution to the problems. It's regrettable that some long-time trusted forum users will find themselves excluded. I hope this policy change motivates them to finally officially join ZS.
Riddle me this; what happens to those of us "freeloaders" who have active threads now?
The items have to be hosted off-site anyway.
You're claiming you're doing this to enhance business security but there's a limit to that safety.
You're claiming the mods lack the time to properly mod these forums and disputes.

Have you considered recruiting more mods/staff/arbiters??

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:49 am
by JTNieman
jor-el wrote: The items have to be hosted off-site anyway.
Just guns. (FWIW)

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:57 am
by TDW586
jor-el wrote: Riddle me this; what happens to those of us "freeloaders" who have active threads now?
The items have to be hosted off-site anyway.
You're claiming you're doing this to enhance business security but there's a limit to that safety.
You're claiming the mods lack the time to properly mod these forums and disputes.

Have you considered recruiting more mods/staff/arbiters??

It should be noted, the only one in this thread who has used the phase "freeloaders" is you. Access to the forums is free for anyone; that isn't changing. They're simply modifying the rules to address a problem which has come to light, namely disputes in the Trading Post.

I don't see where you have cause to be upset by this; the moderators and arbiters of Zombie Squad are in no way required to provide any service for you, including providing a forum to sell your goods. If they choose to require posters to be paying members in order to use this (free) forum to sell their goods, I don't see how you or anyone else could have any cause to attack that decision.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:07 pm
by nyiangelo
TDW586 wrote:I don't see where you have cause to be upset by this; the moderators and arbiters of Zombie Squad are in no way required to provide any service for you, including providing a forum to sell your goods. If they choose to require posters to be paying members in order to use this (free) forum to sell their goods, I don't see how you or anyone else could have any cause to attack that decision
+1

The phrase "Shut up or Pay up" come to mind. Who cares, it's not like people are depending on this forum, it's a privelage.

Re: New Trading Post Policies

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:08 pm
by stimpy321972
I can relate to both sides of this issue however, it is getting harder to sell firearms and anything related to them on "free" sites anymore. Anytime I have put firearms related material on craiglist for sale, they have been flagged for removal. I was planning on renewing my membership anyway, due to what others have stated, that what you learn on here is worth way more than the yearly membership cost.

Also, the friends I have met on here, you cannot put a dollar amount to that. :cry: 8)