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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 10:33 am 
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I am sure with all the wiring repairs and changes, you will not have a problem finding it. My 76 had the prong and socket, trailer style connectors for everything. When I had an issue it was usually a bad wire in one of the plugs, broken inside the rubber of the plug. I am glad to see someone caring enough to keep one of these beauties on the road. You just don't see the cool features like the flip down license plate anymore.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 7:21 am 
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It still lives!

Good to hear.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:58 pm 
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The hot start issue was fixed by adding a relay.

The problem that causes the issue is that over time, wiring and connections get old and lose their ability to conduct to a degree. This is made worse when the wiring is hot (hot wires have higher resistance than cold wires). And unfortunately, the starter solenoid and wiring are located close to an exhaust manifold. I was only getting around 8-9 volts to the starter solenoid (itself, a kind of relay switch) which was too little to activate the solenoid. However, I was able to source an automotive relay that took a lot less persuasion to operate than the solenoid. I took the pos wire from the solenoid and connected it to one major terminal, and the other major terminal went to the battery - pure, unadulterated 12v power there. The ignition wire got connected to one of the minor terminals, with the other going directly to ground. In the year since effecting this change, I have not experienced a single hot-start failure. I will follow up with some photos soon when I have the chance.

In other news, for about a year I have been chasing an intermittent ignition problem. I cleaned connections - no change. Tightened connections - no change. Removed crimp on connectors and replaced them with soldered connectors... no diff. Ran a jumper wire DIRECTLY from a source of known reliable current. No change. Finally, it's down to just one component... the distributor (coil is new within the past 10k miles). I pulled the distributor and started poking around - yep, it looks like the electronics amplifier (internal to the distributor) is bad - blistered and puffy. Come to find out, the vacuum advance was totally shot too - and the truck just passed an emissions test with it that way! Probably the fact that this dizzy has a mechanical (centrif) advance as well is what pulled it thorugh.

Well, as long as I had the distributor out, and I'm waiting on a vacuum advance unit, I decided to spiff the old gal up a bit. Keep in mind, this is a 38 year old engine with only 80-90k miles on it. It was a low-mileage ranch truck before becoming a project truck for a couple of people prior to me.

Brace yourselves, some of these are NOT PRETTY.


Last edited by Neville on Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:08 pm 
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But THIS is the source of the trouble, right here... this is the solid-state electronic signal amplifier. For the Prestolite distributor, the electronics are all contained internally inside the distributor.

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That is a circuit board that has been dipped in a grey epoxy for proofing from the elements. I suppose it did alright in that regard, having gotten it by the past 38 years. It's not supposed to have any "squish" in it, but you can definitely squeeze it and feel the blistering inside. Yup, it's shot. This entire mass gets replaced by this single item below, courtesy of Pertronics:

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Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Sorta reminds me of in BTF3, when Doc and Marty decide to rescue 1985 doc from the Old West, they had to replace a burnt out integrated circuit chip with 1950's technology which was strapped to the hood, for lack of a better place to put it. Looking back - there was 30 year's difference between the chip and the box full of vacuum tubes... there is 38 years difference between the grey epoxy OEM unit and the sweet little Pertronix replacement. Ah, the march of technology. My Scout had been on the road a scant 7 years when the Delorean made it's maiden time-voyage. Doesn't time just fly LOL.

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Last edited by Neville on Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:30 pm 
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As I am waiting on a vacuum advance unit right now (on order, 2-3 weeks wait) you will have to bide your time to see the dizzy when I am done with it and ready to go back into the truck. Sorry to be such a tease.

In the meantime, moar pics to entertain you...

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Last edited by Neville on Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:25 pm 
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While waiting on the vacuum advance unit to finish the distributor, I decided to tackle another issue. The hood release knob came off last summer, due to opening the hood frequently and how hard the old mechanism has become to work. It's a simple pull cable control. The mechanism is mounted on the firewall with three bolts, easy enough to get to. At first I thought I would just spray it down with penetrating oil but a closer look convinced me that more drastic measures were required. I marked the position of the mechanism with sharpie on the FW - there is play for alignment and I want it to go back in without issue. Loosen the cable clamp and remove the clamp wing and the screw, but leave the cable in the eyelet. Then remove all three nuts securing it to the FW. That's it. Now you can turn the assembly 90 degrees so the cable will slide right out of the eye.

The whole thing was full of fossilized grease and gravel dust & road grime, 38 year's worth by the looks of things. The whole thing is basically just 3 pieces held together by an axle pin of some kind that is riveted in there, aluminum or some kind of soft steel. There's really no way to remove it other than drill it out. And that, my friends, was the only way I was going to be able to get in there to adequately clean and lubricate things. Well, it's gotta be done.

Once the rivet end of the pin was drilled out, the pin slid right out and all 3 pieces were exposed for cleaning. I used kerosene as a solvent. A brief dunk and a scrub with a wire brush was not enough - this stuff was really caked on there HARD. I ended up soaking it for most of a day, and then had to follow that up with a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner (kerosene again) and heat. Well, that got the pieces pretty clean. I was able to remove all the remaining schmutz with an old toothbrush. A quick trip to the hardware store netted me the parts to put it back together - I'd planned on using a stainless bolt and a nylock nut, but I didnt' like the idea that the parts would be rotating on threads instead of a smooth bearing surface like the original riveted part. While rummaging around the bins, I happened to find a retaining pin that looks like it's the exact right size to serve the purpose. Well that was a lucky find!

On the not-so-lucky front, I decanted the used solvent back into the original container leaving just a bit that was heavily contaminated, and went to pitch the rest in a brush pile to evaporate off. Wouldn't you know I had neglected to remove a small part from that parts-cleaning tub and away it went into the brush. OMFG, that did not just happen. Wait, yes it did. So now I am faced with the unenviable task of going through the haystack looking for the needle. It was the cable retaining tab, small, squarish, maybe postage stamp sized with a bit of a tab sticking out from it. Ok, so there's the facepalm moment for the day. Hopefully it will be found and I can continue this little project where I left off.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:36 pm 
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Got it all back together. Here's the finished product.

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Fired up and ran on the first try.... wasn't really expecting that but I'll take it! The beast is back on the road again. Spunky too! The old girl really has some get up and go in her now.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:53 pm 
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MOAR PICS

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On the vacuum advance there are two fittings, one screws into the other. I discovered that BOTH were leaking air around the threads. This was addressed using yellow teflon tape such as is used for sealing natural gas lines. It worked very much to my satisfaction, though on these small fittings a bit of trimming was required. The tape provided a perfect air-tight seal.

Some may call this "polishing a turd" but as I don't have thousands to sink into a total body-off restoration at the moment, I'm trying to do every little fix-it or improvement to the best of my ability. Just to look at it, it's hard to believe it's not a new one. I'm definitely glad for the opportunity to get deeper into a distributor than I've ever been before. It makes me feel connected and more "in tune" with the vehicle to really understand at a gut level how each part of it works, what's really deep down inside. I hope this is as deep as I have to go for a while though! Two months to rebuild the distributor, and that's without having to replace bronze bearings or shim it. I'm seriously thinking of having an entire spare distributor vacuum sealed in mylar inside the gun safe, so it's ready to go in case I ever need to swap out what I've got on short notice. Would be nice to have an alternator there too. Those are the only vaguely electronic parts on this truck, and they are pretty easy to swap out with simple tools in short order. One little "gotcha" that in my mind makes this an even more worthy ambition is that there is a known issue with the Pertronix Ignitor where if the ignition is left on with the engine not running, it can literally melt down the coil and module. They solved that issue for the Ignitor II and III but apparently there is not a version of either of those available for the IH Scout. I'm going to tape a note to the dash so that anyone who uses the vehicle (I'm thinking here about when it's in the shop for something, etc) they will know not to leave the key turned on. Having a spare distributor and coil handy would be nice to have to avoid any lengthy downtime sourcing parts.

This rebuild cost me roughly $200 - around $100 for the Pertronix module and a little under $100 for the rebuilt vacuum advance. A totally new distributor would have been about $300 with $100 back if you trade in the old "core". For the same $200 basically I could have swapped out this old core for a whole new unit and saved some time and effort... honestly, I'm glad to have had the experience and it was worth it to me to be able to say "I've done it". Now, a spare would be nice so I don't have to "do it" in the future when I don't have the luxury of time and availability of parts.

As for the paint, well if you're going to spend two months working on something, it's nice to have something that actually looks like it was worked on, in the end. Makes me smile, anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:59 am 
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Slow around here recently? Or is it just me?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:12 am 
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I'm with ya-it's good to learn. On a similar note, a chevy 305 will run without the brush in the distributor!

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:40 pm 
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Nice work! I agree with your methodology. "Keep the moving parts clean."

I bought an 89 Toyota Land Cruiser that I'm going through. I'm way more concerned with functionality than appearance. The "stuff" unseen is by far more important that the paint job. Being able to fix it yourself in the middle of nowhere with a jumper wire beats the hell out of trying to get some electronic module shipped in.

By the way I made a road trip to pick up some body parts for my Land Cruiser and this kid had 3 IH Scout SUVs and a couple IH pickups rotting away in a dirt floor barn. One of the SUVs was supposedly very rare with some special doors....I don't know. But it was a shame seeing those rot away along with several Land Cruisers.

Anyway - keep up the good work. That thing will take you anywhere anytime and that's a good feeling.

Eric


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Viper shtf wrote:
I'm with ya-it's good to learn. On a similar note, a chevy 305 will run without the brush in the distributor!


And my 1981 VW Pickup Diesel will run and drive with no alternator and no battery! And no radio and no lights LOL

Eric


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 2:23 pm 
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I've had a problem with this truck for the 6 years I've owned it, where if it sits too long between being started (2-3 weeks) it will take forever to start. I either have to crank on the starter a really long time, or pop the hood and give it a few squirts of starting fluid.

I think the float bowl evaporates which opens the float valve, and the gas in the line seeps slowly back down to tank level as air enters the line through the open valve. So it takes a while for the mechanical pump to purge the air and get gas to the carb again. I don't like starting the truck this way. It's hard on the starter and battery. Not to mention it makes it hard for others who don't know how to be able to start the truck if I'm away. So I decided to try to fix it by adding an electrical pump in line with the mechanical. I mounted it to the inner fender well ahead of the mechanical pump, splicing it into the line. It is operated on an as-needed basis by a toggle switch on the dash. A few seconds of running the electric pump should re-fill the float bowl and allow the truck to start without issue. Haven't had a thorough test yet, that will be a while in the making.

Hopefully, I've seen the last of that particular problem.

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_________________________________________________________________


Updates!

After driving around town on extended test drives, I can confirm that the pass-through arrangement on the dual fuel pumps is working as expected. Only one of the pumps needs to be operational, the other will "pass-through" the fuel just fine. Haven't tried highway driving yet but don't expect any surprises there. This is going to save a LOT of cranking after the truck has set a bit.

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Replacing the 38 year old factory ignition module resolved the ignition problem I was having, no recurrence after multiple extended drives. Very happy to have that one behind me. Downside - the Pertronix module does not operate the throttle demodulator and solenoid valve (3rd wire, white) because it lacks the RPM sensor of the original. I may source a whole new distributor later this year, and put this newly rebuilt model into an ammo can in the gun safe as an EMP fall-back unit, ready to swap in. The only downside currently is the throttle closes too rapidly which results in that RUM-BA-BA-BUM-BUM when you let off the gas instead of just a smooth, even decel. I know, OCD but it bugs me the truck never did that before and it will "run fine" and likely even pass emissions without any further tinkering. The truck has never run this well over all, not sure if that's due to the Pertronix module or having a working vacuum advance and no vacuum leak for the first time ever.

I'm having a local shop put in a replacement spedo cable for me - the old one was buzzing and jerking a few years ago so I had ordered the cable... then it "cleared up" enough that I figured I'd wait a bit. It still buzzes but is at least working. I'm trying to eliminate noises to see if fixing one problem unearths another that was concealed (like the vacuum advance was). So it's going in tomorrow to get that little chore tackled. Not hugely technical, sure, I could do it, but I'm short on time and don't have a helper... it's worth a couple of bucks to me to offload that particular chore.

Since the distributor is new, and both the Pertronix and the coil are substantial upgrades from OEM I installed fresh plugs and wires, gapping the plugs to .40 over the normal .35 - not a big diff but from what I've been able to research, appropriate. The old plugs don't have a lot of miles on them so they'll be saved and cleaned to be used as a spare set for next time. I'm using the Autolite 85 Copper Core plugs - seem to be working great because there has never been any ping, and the nose and electrodes are running clean, no sign of build-up nor scorching. The book calls for Autolite 303 but those tend to be a "colder" plug and can be subject to fouling on in-town driving. The 85's have a longer porcelain nose which raises the temp range, which tends to reduce fouling. Seems to be working for me.

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:43 pm 
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Headlight re-engineering upgrade.

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I have had some lengthy discussions with an automotive electrical specialist.

Part of the background info for the following:
DC current loses oompf the longer it has to travel.
The thinner the wires/cables, the more pronounced this effect.
The higher the load at the end of the wire, the more pronounced this effect.
Most older automobiles did not take this into account when designing the system.

This was an issue that plagued me with regard to a "hot start" issue because by the time the power had traveled from the battery, to the ignition switch, to the transmission interlock switch, to the solenoid, there wasn't enough juice left to kick over the solenoid - I measured 8-9 volts where there should have been 12 at the end of that wire. The problem was solved by using that 8v to trip a relay switch that brings power directly from the battery. Hot start problem, solved.

Headlights are another heavy load that suffer from this issue. A lot of times people replace old headlights thinking that they are dim because they are old - not so, generally speaking... it is the wires and connections serving that load that are not up to the task. When the cables leading to the headlights are replaced with heavy gauge wire, coming straight from the battery and activated by a relay switch, you can often see a goodly improvement over prior performance.

These relay switches are good up to 70 amps which should be more than sufficient for headlights. I have retained the original headlight sockets so the vehicle can be transitioned back to the original setup with ease. I tap into the headlight control using a spade connector, which routes control current to the relays. Power comes to the relays via a 12 gauge wire directly from the battery (through a 30 amp fuse). There are two relays... one each for low and high. The relays are mounted via a screw into the bulkhead behind the headlight, which serves as a common ground point - there is a 12 gauge wire running directly back to battery negative to ensure proper grounding.

That's really all there is to it.

I've engineered this system so it uses 4 relays total - High + low, x right + left. It should be possible to engineer it to only use a single relay per high/low... however, you would need two runs of 12 gauge wire across the width of the vehicle... kind of a toss up between saving money on a couple of relays vs the cost of the wire which isn't cheap. In the end I decided that for this particular setup it would be easier to replace a relay than to replace a wire, so I went with the 4 relay setup. They are only about $4 each so at worst I'm out $8 but subtract the 6'-7' of 12 gauge wire and it's enough less that I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Note - the large terminals here are 3/8" and it's a less common size. The headlight spade terminals on the back of the headlights are yet again, ANOTHER size between the 1/4" and the 3/8". I got a couple of headlight plugs off the shelf at the auto store and carefully pressed the female connectors out by compressing the retention tab. I'd have liked to have used the plugs, but for some reason they just wouldn't line up on the headlight spades. No big deal, but I do need to remember which terminal goes where. I found it a good idea to use white wire for the low beams and yellow for the high, just to help keep things straight in my head so I'm not tracing wires if I need to tinker on it again sometime.

Looking forward to taking the old girl out for a night run, see if I can tell a difference. I may opt for some halogen headlights at some point, when one of the factory originals goes out on me... until then, I'll run with what I've got. I've looked at some super-white-blinding headlights (H4, HID, xenon) but the way they're built just looks "wrong" to me somehow on a classic truck. So, I'd be looking for conventional style headlights in a halogen platform, I think. Probably this:

http://scoutparts.com/products/?product_id=13896&view=product

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At least I know now, if I do update the actual headlamps, there will be plenty of juice to crank out the lumens.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:13 pm 
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Update -

The self-rebuilt distributor has been tooting along under the hood now since mid-June. I took my annual trip to Susanville (5 hour drive) towing the trailer through the mountains. Also I took another trip with the truck & trailer in September about 4 hours from home. No issues whatsoever, looks like a proper job was done.

The electric auxiliary fuel pump has worked perfectly, eliminating extended cranking after the vehicle has set for a while. Makes getting the old gal started a lot easier on the battery.

The headlight upgrade project yielded mixed results. The lights are a bit brighter, but because they are wired directly to the battery any time the headlights are on, the ammeter reads to the "charging" side. A planning error on my part that I should have seen coming. What I need is a terminal on the alternator side to tie into. Also, the lights are a bit brighter but not as much as I'd hoped. It appears an upgrade to some halogen bulbs is in order. I've seen the xenon headlamps, and while they are bright, they don't have a traditional look and that kind of ruins it for me.


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