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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:30 pm 
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I really dig our Subaru.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:49 pm 
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I've got a WRX that I dearly love. Owned it for 6 years. With that said, they are NOT trucks and they are NOT offroad vehicles. Even the Bajas and Outbacks just don't have the running gear strength that a truck-based vehicle would. I've done some sand running in it in the desert alongside my buddy's Tacoma 4X4. It handled the sand trudging just fine, went pretty much everywhere the Tacoma did, until the Tacoma went from 5 to 10 MPH.

I was lost and scraping the undercarriage on everything. It really made an impression watching that new, bone-stock Tacoma get its front end off the ground and back down with no fuss at all. Doing that in my Subaru would have cost 1500 dollars and probably rendered it undriveable.

On the road out, there were some dips. I went 15 MPH and bottomed out the front lip on the right. It's still a little loose. Since then, it's never seen anything but flat dirt and grass.

Subarus are great cars, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one again. But they are all definitely cars.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:26 am 
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guy1138 wrote:
I've got a WRX wagon and love it. Fast, great handling, plenty of room for gear. Ground clearance is too low for any roads that are TOO torn up, but maintained fire trails are OK. I know they kick ass in Rally Racing though, so the aftermarket is out there to make them more capable off -road.

If you are thinking about the WRC Rally cars, then sadly you are misled, the budgets required to build a WRC level car are extremely high. Even the good National Rally level cars in NZ run around the $50k USD to modify cost (on top of the purchase price).

Rallying is also a far different proposition than 4 wheel driving imo. Rallying invloves maintained roads (albeit metalled/gravel) whereas 4 wheel driving involves narely maintained trails. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:51 am 
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Parah Salin wrote:
-Abysmal fuel economy when you drive even the least bit aggressively...See I live in greater Boston, and you can't dick around on the roads here. You have to accelerate hard and fast. When I'm doing a lot of highway cruising, keeping it at 65-70, and doing stop-and go on route 9, I average in the low twenties. My mom gets more like high twenties, but she drives it at like 50mph, and doesn't accelerate at all (takes forever to find a big enough gap to move into)

I think the two highlighted statements explain the shit mileage you get from the Subie. Stop and go, as well as full-throttle, will kill any attempt at increasing your mileage. ;) If you wanted a high-performance Subaru, you should have bought the WRX, STI, RSK or RS models.

Parah Salin wrote:
-Weak power. At 60 mph I'm usually running 2,500 RPM, and 3,000 RPM at 70.

Naturally Aspirated Japanese cars are usually geared so that the motor is up near the plateau of the Torque curve when running at highway speeds in top gear. More efficient than having it lower down. Forced Induction (turbo) Japanese cars seem to be configured so that around the highway speed the turbo is fairly well spooled up and ready to go.
That engine RPM is normal for that speed in Japanese cars (Honda, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Subaru, etc).
As for the week power comment, see the responses below.

Parah Salin wrote:
If you want to move at all you have to rev the engine up to around 2,000 RPM before you release the clutch all the way, first gear is basically useless.
The other thing is the engine starts complaining at around 2,000 RPM, which is not good. I don't mean just making noise, but you can like smell the oil burning and it sounds like it wants to kill itself. It idles really low, which sucks for stop and go traffic.

All the Subaru's I have driven/been in have idle'd at 800rpm'ish. That's normal for a Jap car, and yes they do expect you to use the throttle to get the car moving, that's what it is for after all, if you wanted a good stop and go car, you should have bought an Auto. ;)
However, if you have to rev the engine to 2k to 'get the car moving at all', either you don't have a clue how to drive a manual, or your engine is fucked. Which by the sounds of the mechanic you are currently using, could well be the case. ;)
You do realise that by revving your engine to 2k rpm before letting the clutch out fully is going to burn the clutch out really, really fast?

Parah Salin wrote:
-Weird parts. See, old Subarus have a lot of parts on them that just go, and our mechanic dosn't even know why they are there, and they are expensive to replace. I'm not just talking labor, the parts themselves are not cheap at all. But without these weird random little parts, the engine runs like crap. It makes the fuel economy terrible, and the acceleration worse than I described above.

Sounds more like the problem lies with your mechanic, and him/her not being familiar with the vehicle they are working on, rather than the car itself, if they don't have a fucking clue what the bits are for, how can you expect them to attempt to do preventative maintenance on them?
The Boxer engines in Subaru's are a tad different than I4's or V8's ;)
Not to mention that there are more bits to an injected B4 than a carburetted V8.

It sounds like most of your problems could be remedied by taking your car to a mechanic who actually knows WTH they are doing with the car. I wouldn't take my car back to a mechanic who has no knowledge of the engine parts in it, neither should you. :)

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Last edited by colinz on Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:52 am 
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Vicarious_Lee wrote:
Subarus are great cars, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one again. But they are all definitely cars.

Quote For Truth x 1 million!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:59 am 
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If you are looking for a daily driver that can go on unpaved roads and fire trails,dirt driveways, and such, then the Subaru (forester or outback) is absolutely the best car ever made. I have an '06 forester that routinely carries kayaks on top (the kayak racks held the 16' pressure treated lumber when I re-did my porch too...) has a trailer hitch (for the $160 harbor freight trailer to haul mulch for the wifes garden). My kids laugh at me because any time I drive past a construction site with one of those big piles of dirt I have to stop and drive up and over it ! This CAR is awsome - but it is not a dedicated trail climbing jeep (with DANA rear diff...) I love my subie for what it is, 8 inch ground clearance, fast enough (turbo will outperform a porsche up to about the 50mph mark) and non turbo(mine) gets 25-28 mpg daily driving.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:18 am 
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'05 Impreza Outback Sport.

That car saved my life last November, coming back on I-78 through eastern PA in icy weather during the wee hours of the night; pickup truck trying to pass me goes into a skid about a carlength ahead of me and started ricocheting off the sides of the bridge we were crossing. I laid into the brakes and she never slid or skidded one bit. Meanwhile the pickup was banging itself all to hell, sliding sideways down the highway bouncing from one side of the bridge to the other. At one point it was backwards, about 5 feet in front of my car, headlights shining in on me and I thought for sure I wasn't going to be able to stop in time; that the truck would careen around again and hit my little car and swat me over the side of the bridge. After all was said and done, nobody was hurt - truck's engine caught fire but the guy driving was fine. An older couple driving a little ways behind me saw the whole thing and called 911 before they even pulled over. I talked the driver out of his truck (he was sitting in it trying to get it started again - shock, I guess) and after a couple shivering minutes explaining no, he didn't hit me, I'm fine, I was back on the road.

Summing up: Yes, I like my Subaru, and I'll get another when the time comes to replace it (unless the Z-PAW comes before then).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:59 am 
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I can only speak to my own experience.
Years ago I had an '87 gl-10 turbo.
It had every gadget imaginable, pneumatic adjustable suspension,
power everything, trip computer, sunroof, etc etc etc.....
And it all broke, constantly. The thing was never on the road for more than a month before something else broke.
In one year: three struts (expensive), two alternators, one water pump, one radiator, two power windows, one starter, front brakes (which, on subarus, are a pain in the ass BTW).

I've one friend with an outback, and another with a forrester. They both love 'em.

Personally, if it fits your other needs, I'd go with a nice 4X4 pickup.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:28 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:18 pm 
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colinz wrote:
guy1138 wrote:
...I know they kick ass in Rally Racing though, so the aftermarket is out there to make them more capable off -road.

If you are thinking about the WRC Rally cars, then sadly you are misled, the budgets required to build a WRC level car are extremely high. Even the good National Rally level cars in NZ run around the $50k USD to modify cost (on top of the purchase price).

Rallying is also a far different proposition than 4 wheel driving imo. Rallying invloves maintained roads (albeit metalled/gravel) whereas 4 wheel driving involves narely maintained trails. ;)


Nope, wasn't talking about WRC, that's like the F1 of the rally world. I'm talking more about the SCCA equivalent. Check out RallyAmerica.com. Lots of cool, low buck rally cars, and the AWD cars like the Subies do quite well in the series. Upgrade control arms, brakes, differentials, tires; add racing seats, a cage and a harness and you've got a very capable rally car on your hands.

And no, I'm not talking about taking them 4-wheeling. I'm talking more about unimproved roads, fire trails, power line roads and the like. They're even pretty capable on sand & in fields. But you're right, you're not going to take a car rock crawling, mud-bogging, or over any serious terrain.

Still, even with the limitations, a Subaru is a good choice for an emergency situation vehicle, especially if you know its limitations and plan accordingly.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:23 pm 
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guy1138 wrote:
colinz wrote:
guy1138 wrote:
...I know they kick ass in Rally Racing though, so the aftermarket is out there to make them more capable off -road.

If you are thinking about the WRC Rally cars, then sadly you are misled, the budgets required to build a WRC level car are extremely high. Even the good National Rally level cars in NZ run around the $50k USD to modify cost (on top of the purchase price).

Rallying is also a far different proposition than 4 wheel driving imo. Rallying invloves maintained roads (albeit metalled/gravel) whereas 4 wheel driving involves narely maintained trails. ;)


Nope, wasn't talking about WRC, that's like the F1 of the rally world. I'm talking more about the SCCA equivalent. Check out RallyAmerica.com. Lots of cool, low buck rally cars, and the AWD cars like the Subies do quite well in the series. Upgrade control arms, brakes, differentials, tires; add racing seats, a cage and a harness and you've got a very capable rally car on your hands.

And no, I'm not talking about taking them 4-wheeling. I'm talking more about unimproved roads, fire trails, power line roads and the like. They're even pretty capable on sand & in fields. But you're right, you're not going to take a car rock crawling, mud-bogging, or over any serious terrain.

Still, even with the limitations, a Subaru is a good choice for an emergency situation vehicle, especially if you know its limitations and plan accordingly.


scca? feh.

Here's me at the sprints!
http://btdtracing.com/gallery/v/Events/ ... ewsIndex=1

and any national level SCCA programs are going to see you running 20-50k in your car. Shit cars or not, you're going to have some money wrapped up. You don't want to know what my stupid Miata cost last year

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Here's my buddy Matt's STi rolling deep in Vancouver!! That thing loves snow!!

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I drive a 2007 Subaru Impreza OBS- 5Spd Manual- totally stock at the moment. I love the thing! But as a BOV I would prefer a truck. It doesn't have much clearance which lately has meant plowing into snowdrifts a truck would drive over.. It seems fairly tought, and I would have NO qualms taking it over most destroyed roads that would stop most other cars. Fuel mileage- abysmal, but it is so much fun to drive that I think it is my fault.....

(I will probably add more detail here later in an edit)


Parah Salin wrote:
The Bad-
-Weak power. At 60 mph I'm usually running 2,500 RPM, and 3,000 RPM at 70. If you want to move at all you have to rev the engine up to around 2,000 RPM before you release the clutch all the way, first gear is basically useless. The other thing is the engine starts complaining at around 2,000 RPM, which is not good. I don't mean just making noise, but you can like smell the oil burning and it sounds like it wants to kill itself. It idles really low, which sucks for stop and go traffic.
-Long shift throw...just my personal preference, but the gear selector has a long throw and it feels like your driving a truck, I personally like short, swift, clicky gear selectors...but thats all personal preference.


As colinz said, the 2500 to 3000 thing is normal- and GOOD for these small engines. It gets better mileage, and they are built to take the RPM's.
As for revving to 2000 RPM.. I think that is your problem.. I did that when I first got my car, but then I learned to drop that to 1000 very shortly, and now I launch at idle, which brings me to my next point.
It idles at 500! Yes 500! :shock: Slightly UNDER halfway to 1000 on the tach.... 500. But I dont mind this- I can launch at IDLE and it works well. Sure I have a 2.5l engine, but what is the difference? I find a low idle is GOOD for stop and go as it means I can idle along in first quite slowly, and if I need to go faster I just idle in second.. or even third. I like the ability to go slow.
Being a boxer engine, and a scooby, the idle is "rough" but that is normal. Its not REALLY rough, but you do get the rumbling of the whole car when stopped and it changes around a bit... its just a scooby thing. I personally love it.

I also have a short shifter (factory) installed. Very short shift throw. You could easily and cheaply add one to your legacy.
(After spending weeks driving a Diesel 97 Dodge Ram, 5 speed, my scooby felt like a go kart in throw AND clutch travel.)


Hope my ramblings made sense!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:21 pm 
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thefirebuilds wrote:
guy1138 wrote:
colinz wrote:
guy1138 wrote:
...I know they kick ass in Rally Racing though, so the aftermarket is out there to make them more capable off -road.

If you are thinking about the WRC Rally cars, then sadly you are misled, the budgets required to build a WRC level car are extremely high. Even the good National Rally level cars in NZ run around the $50k USD to modify cost (on top of the purchase price).

Rallying is also a far different proposition than 4 wheel driving imo. Rallying invloves maintained roads (albeit metalled/gravel) whereas 4 wheel driving involves narely maintained trails. ;)


Nope, wasn't talking about WRC, that's like the F1 of the rally world. I'm talking more about the SCCA equivalent. Check out RallyAmerica.com. Lots of cool, low buck rally cars, and the AWD cars like the Subies do quite well in the series. Upgrade control arms, brakes, differentials, tires; add racing seats, a cage and a harness and you've got a very capable rally car on your hands.

And no, I'm not talking about taking them 4-wheeling. I'm talking more about unimproved roads, fire trails, power line roads and the like. They're even pretty capable on sand & in fields. But you're right, you're not going to take a car rock crawling, mud-bogging, or over any serious terrain.

Still, even with the limitations, a Subaru is a good choice for an emergency situation vehicle, especially if you know its limitations and plan accordingly.


scca? feh.

Here's me at the sprints!
http://btdtracing.com/gallery/v/Events/ ... ewsIndex=1

and any national level SCCA programs are going to see you running 20-50k in your car. Shit cars or not, you're going to have some money wrapped up. You don't want to know what my stupid Miata cost last year


Psst...
SCCA doesn't do rally anymore...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:32 pm 
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Obiwan wrote:

In Boulder county I think you have to be a lesbian to own one

Your laws may differ



:lol: Same down here in Alabama, though with the proper application of Phish stickers and puns about world peace, you can get a hippy exemption.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:01 pm 
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I own a 2001 Subaru 2.5 R.S. unfortunately it's an automatic -_- I've had it for a couple years, and my fiance owned it before I did, overall it's a damn good vehicle.
It gets around 250-300 miles to a tank (depending on how your driving.) It holds 14 gallons :) not to bad.
In snow this is the best car I've ever driven in, love it. It's got nice huge fog lights, you can also put covers over them if your concerned with breaking them, (they have covers that will let the light shine through and not melt the plastic)
If you don't lower the car (unlike me) it should be ok for ground clearance, (don't try to run over trees or anything) :lol:
Unfortunately it's not a very fast car, only about 165 horsepower but it takes off fast. In my model car, the backseats don't lay down, so that fails for storage capacity.
I guess it depends overall what you would like.
My next car for sure is going to be a WRX wagon maybe a 2006-2008 stick-shift. More room, my gold wheels, and imported seats will all fit. Plus it's way faster *drools* @ turbo
~Laters
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I have a 1990 Subaru Loyale which I use as my daily driver to and from work. I drove it for a year and a half on the bulb farm where I work which completely fried the suspension. That is about 15 - 20 miles a day on pot hole filled dirt roads. basically level ground, but it just couldn't handle daily driving on those types of roads. The company paid to replace a broken axle, but the tie rods, ball joints, etc. are still hosed. I haven't been able to afford to fix it and so at this point, why put a couple thousand into it if I'd only be able to sell it for 8-900?

But I gotta say... That little bastard just keeps going. It chews through front right tires due to the tie rods, and it needs a new oxy sensor, and the exhaust is completely toasted from the caty to the tailpipe, but damn... it's still on the road. I'm not so sure I'd buy another, though.


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I have an 05 WRX Wagon, stage 2 mods and dyno tuned and a few suspension mods. I love the thing. Good gas mileage, good power and good handling. It can go offroad to a small extent, pretty much just dirt roads and maybe some small obstacles, but nothing major.

If you want to get an idea of how well a Subaru can do when modified for offroading, check out www.ultimatesubaru.org.


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SimonZayne wrote:
Psst...
SCCA doesn't do rally anymore...


PSST. You're responding to the wrong guy.

but i disagree, anyway.

http://scca.com/events.aspx?hub=2

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Well, my Suby blew a head gasket yesterday. It will cost almost twice for the repair than I paid for the car 5 1/2 years ago.

Looks like I'll be giving up my Suby.

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Baba Brad wrote:
Well, my Suby blew a head gasket yesterday. It will cost almost twice for the repair than I paid for the car 5 1/2 years ago.

Looks like I'll be giving up my Suby.



ahhhh i wish you were closer!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:43 pm 
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thefirebuilds wrote:
Baba Brad wrote:
Well, my Suby blew a head gasket yesterday. It will cost almost twice for the repair than I paid for the car 5 1/2 years ago.

Looks like I'll be giving up my Suby.



ahhhh i wish you were closer!



I wish I was richer. Toss up between getting fixed or buying another beater. Guy has a Jeep CJ7 for under $3000 right around the corner. Another person has an Isuzu Amigo for $1500. I paid $1500 for my Suby. They want $2500 to $3000 to get it repaired.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:58 pm 
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honestly the gasket is $30-100 and a few hours labor. you can do it if you want.

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I have a pimpin' 1998 Forester with 188k on the odometer and zero leaks, problems, or issues. I've mudded it, taken on trails with overconfident 4x4 jeep drivers, and driven through 12" snow storms with ease. Whomever said parts are expensive, take the advice from others and find a better mechanic. Or buy a Haynes book and do the repairs yourself. Parts are cheap.

The head gasket takes 5 hours if you don't know what you're doing but following the steps in the Haynes manual, and about $300 in parts and supplies. It's easy and very hard to screw up. Any mechanically inclined person can do it, or bribe a friend who is capable with some beers and burgers.

I pulled mine out of ditch after it sat for a year in water, mosquitos, and spiders. It works fine. The former owner couldn't drive anymore and parked it on the side of the yard, which then in the rains, collapsed into the ditch.

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin ... post491703 You can see the pics for yourself.

With some cheap upgrades and some elbow grease, they are a fine vehicle. And yes, my F350 4x4 will go places the forester cannot, but for 99% of my life, the forester does just fine.

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Former Zombie & Survival Pornographer


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