Buying Brand New Truck?

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Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:47 pm

Is that a bad prep?

should add some context huh? Well my current ride is a 2011 Lariat F350 crew cab long bed. But, shes getting a little older now, nearing 100k miles (gasser). all of the fancy stuff that comes along with the lariat trim are slowly breaking. Most recent has been sunroof and luckily its mostly shut.

I dont plan on getting a smaller vee heckle because I love everything about it. Make jokes all you want. I got 99 problems and MPG is half of em. :clap:

I guess this is more of a should I just buy a new truck thread. Build it how I want it and the way Id like it setup for me. Id like to step up to a dually, but as I plan on not towing anything, Im still debating. Im more curious how theyd handle off road, if need be. Because of prices, I wouldnt mind getting either.

So what are your super duty thoughts?
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by NT2C » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:10 pm

I've driven a dually off-road and, well, they don't like it all that much. They're a little light on traction in the rear, which leads to a lot of wheel spin. In mud, or wet grass on top of mud, stuff like this happens:

Image

Fortunately, I was just hooking up a trailer in my own yard that time, so I didn't have too far to walk home, but dualies do have a issue when it comes to traction on loose surfaces due to the lack of weight. The ground pressure on each patch of tire in contact with the road is less, making slipping and sliding more common with them.

Oh, and the downside of the above was having to fix this a week later:

Image
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by Stercutus » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:40 pm

I am going to agree on the dually thing about their generally lack of off road worthiness.... unless you have three axles. Then things get interesting. But they will haul a serious load.

Other problems with duallys include parking, maneuvering, tire prices and fuel usage. But if you need to haul something heavy they are the ticket.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by Halfapint » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:16 pm

I just bought a new truck about 3 weeks ago. F250 Super Duty XLT, I was looking at 350s and dualies (we plan on towing with it) however nothing we are going to tow will require more tires on the ground. So if you aren't going to hual anything, and are going to use it as a commuter vehicle. I might suggest the new Titan with the 5.0l Diesel? It was the one I went into wanting. It's got 300hp/555tq it's a large truck (short bed), it'll do everything you want it to do and it supposedly gets almost 30MPG.

I ended up getting the ford because as I said we are going to be hauling a 5th wheel and the 935ft/lb of torque really hit me in the loins.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:09 pm

Id drive an F650 if I could afford it :clap:

But I guess the 350s will have to suffice.

HAlfapint, mind me asking why you picked 250? I mean 350s are the same size but have more payload.

And I will never go back to a regular bed. I need me some 8ft bed, esp once I get a topper over it.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by Halfapint » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:45 pm

w3rdtoyamama wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:09 pm
Id drive an F650 if I could afford it :clap:

But I guess the 350s will have to suffice.

HAlfapint, mind me asking why you picked 250? I mean 350s are the same size but have more payload.

And I will never go back to a regular bed. I need me some 8ft bed, esp once I get a topper over it.
Lighter, better mileage, exact same towing and hauling capability. The F350 is the same frame, the do not stock 1ton frames unless you have one built from the factory. The 350s are just 250s in disguise. Over all I didn't see spending the money on a 350 if my 250 is going to do the exact same stuff. I have an old f150 (1985) with a 250 suspension, for my farm truck, and I just picked up a 20' dual axle car trailer for anything I need that i cant fit in my bed.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by ssgcmw » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 pm

One minor suggestion: see if you can find a 1 to 2 year old truck in excellent condition to buy. That way someone else was paying the hefty first-year depreciation.

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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by CG » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:03 am

Hubby ends up driving on lots of sand (delivering to sand plants). He has a 4x4 dually and said it works fabulously on the sand, but he's also generally got a pretty good amount of weight in the back because he's hauling tools and a compressor.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by woodsghost » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:01 am

ssgcmw wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 pm
One minor suggestion: see if you can find a 1 to 2 year old truck in excellent condition to buy. That way someone else was paying the hefty first-year depreciation.
This is where I'm at. Many people are in a different tax bracket than I am, so their considerations may be different. Growing up, I did not know there were new vehicles. I thought they all just came with different amounts of rust.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by Halfapint » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:45 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:01 am
ssgcmw wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 pm
One minor suggestion: see if you can find a 1 to 2 year old truck in excellent condition to buy. That way someone else was paying the hefty first-year depreciation.
This is where I'm at. Many people are in a different tax bracket than I am, so their considerations may be different. Growing up, I did not know there were new vehicles. I thought they all just came with different amounts of rust.
I agree, this is the first vehicle I've ever owned that isn't 7+ years or more older. We looked at getting a used truck, but around here, unless you're looking for F150 (or equivalent), there's nothing. Our one requirement was buy from a dealer because I didn't want to buy from joe shmo who never changed oil, and loved the keep the engine right at redline. The 4 times we checked out the Ford dealer they had a total of 5 used Super Duties. Not sure what it is around here, but they said they almost never get the SD trucks in and when they do they are gone in a day or two. Even looking a couple hundred miles south they had 4, but they had more miles than we wanted and were older.

We took the hit, we borrowed money form grand parents and ended up paying cash for it. There is NO meat on new cars/trucks. The MSRP was bout 4k more than what the dealer paid for it. I walked in and said I want it for this price, they came back and showed me the invoice. I was asking 3k under what they paid for it. ended up paying 1200 more than they paid for it, plus taxes. We even talked them down form 4k for the extended warranty to 1200. For 10 year 100k bumper to bumper, full electronic repair, oil changes for life, and lifetime powertrain warranty, with free lifetime roadside assistance/towing.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by woodsghost » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:01 pm

Halfapint wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:45 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:01 am
ssgcmw wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 pm
One minor suggestion: see if you can find a 1 to 2 year old truck in excellent condition to buy. That way someone else was paying the hefty first-year depreciation.
This is where I'm at. Many people are in a different tax bracket than I am, so their considerations may be different. Growing up, I did not know there were new vehicles. I thought they all just came with different amounts of rust.
I agree, this is the first vehicle I've ever owned that isn't 7+ years or more older. We looked at getting a used truck, but around here, unless you're looking for F150 (or equivalent), there's nothing. Our one requirement was buy from a dealer because I didn't want to buy from joe shmo who never changed oil, and loved the keep the engine right at redline. The 4 times we checked out the Ford dealer they had a total of 5 used Super Duties. Not sure what it is around here, but they said they almost never get the SD trucks in and when they do they are gone in a day or two. Even looking a couple hundred miles south they had 4, but they had more miles than we wanted and were older.

We took the hit, we borrowed money form grand parents and ended up paying cash for it. There is NO meat on new cars/trucks. The MSRP was bout 4k more than what the dealer paid for it. I walked in and said I want it for this price, they came back and showed me the invoice. I was asking 3k under what they paid for it. ended up paying 1200 more than they paid for it, plus taxes. We even talked them down form 4k for the extended warranty to 1200. For 10 year 100k bumper to bumper, full electronic repair, oil changes for life, and lifetime powertrain warranty, with free lifetime roadside assistance/towing.


To me, that is impressive. And good to know about margins.

OT I guess, but....

I have the same concerns buying used cars. I never know how well maintained they were. Before I was paying for the repairs I was not too worried. When I took over that, I learned in a hurry to appreciate a well maintained vehicle. My side of the family does not maintain vehicles well. My wife's side are superstars. So I'm very appreciative of my FIL and his dad. I get to pick both their brains.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:37 pm

If dually no good, Ill just keep mine and upgrade/fix as needed. No biggie. But a brand new SD for similar to mine is pretty close to price for 450.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:39 pm

ssgcmw wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 pm
One minor suggestion: see if you can find a 1 to 2 year old truck in excellent condition to buy. That way someone else was paying the hefty first-year depreciation.
This has saved me good money before, You have to have the vehicle inspected well.

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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:42 pm

I forgot to mention I wanted it a certain way, not to say there isnt one out there with what Id be happy with, but I dont too bare bones but also not too much breakable stuff, like I currently have. Too many powered things.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by NT2C » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:20 pm

Halfapint wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:45 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:01 am
ssgcmw wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 pm
One minor suggestion: see if you can find a 1 to 2 year old truck in excellent condition to buy. That way someone else was paying the hefty first-year depreciation.
This is where I'm at. Many people are in a different tax bracket than I am, so their considerations may be different. Growing up, I did not know there were new vehicles. I thought they all just came with different amounts of rust.
I agree, this is the first vehicle I've ever owned that isn't 7+ years or more older. We looked at getting a used truck, but around here, unless you're looking for F150 (or equivalent), there's nothing. Our one requirement was buy from a dealer because I didn't want to buy from joe shmo who never changed oil, and loved the keep the engine right at redline. The 4 times we checked out the Ford dealer they had a total of 5 used Super Duties. Not sure what it is around here, but they said they almost never get the SD trucks in and when they do they are gone in a day or two. Even looking a couple hundred miles south they had 4, but they had more miles than we wanted and were older.

We took the hit, we borrowed money form grand parents and ended up paying cash for it. There is NO meat on new cars/trucks. The MSRP was bout 4k more than what the dealer paid for it. I walked in and said I want it for this price, they came back and showed me the invoice. I was asking 3k under what they paid for it. ended up paying 1200 more than they paid for it, plus taxes. We even talked them down form 4k for the extended warranty to 1200. For 10 year 100k bumper to bumper, full electronic repair, oil changes for life, and lifetime powertrain warranty, with free lifetime roadside assistance/towing.
They got you. One of the things you have to understand about dealerships is that what they pay for a vehicle depends greatly on how many they're buying and moving. When we bought our Jeep we got it for $4k under invoice and there were several reasons why we got it that low. First, the new model year was starting to ship to dealers and they needed the room. Second, we were persistent in sticking to the maximum we could afford and gave them plenty of time to find us one in our price range without the extra crap we didn't want but which the one on the lot happened to have. Third, were quite willing to walk out and not buy at all if we couldn't find what we could afford, and the dealer knew it. Fourth, the dealer needed to move just a few more of that model to get his cost down a level on the new models coming in. As he and the accountant who worked with us both explained, sure, there was a $4k loss on this one vehicle, but getting that lower pricing from the manufacturer means they'll pay a few hundred less on every vehicle they buy the coming year, so it's more than worth it to them.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by Halfapint » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:03 pm

NT2C wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:20 pm
They got you. One of the things you have to understand about dealerships is that what they pay for a vehicle depends greatly on how many they're buying and moving. When we bought our Jeep we got it for $4k under invoice and there were several reasons why we got it that low. First, the new model year was starting to ship to dealers and they needed the room. Second, we were persistent in sticking to the maximum we could afford and gave them plenty of time to find us one in our price range without the extra crap we didn't want but which the one on the lot happened to have. Third, were quite willing to walk out and not buy at all if we couldn't find what we could afford, and the dealer knew it. Fourth, the dealer needed to move just a few more of that model to get his cost down a level on the new models coming in. As he and the accountant who worked with us both explained, sure, there was a $4k loss on this one vehicle, but getting that lower pricing from the manufacturer means they'll pay a few hundred less on every vehicle they buy the coming year, so it's more than worth it to them.
While they may have, I doubt it. It was purchased from the largest Ford truck dealer in WA. I talked to multiple friends who have worked both new and used cars. The invoice is what they are purchased for some smaller dealer ships get charged more, larger faster moving ones get charged less. Before I bought I even sent a pic to a friend as we were walking the lot to look at other trucks (stalling), she works for a Chevy dealership and said that was cheaper then the bare bones 2500 in her dealership. Now I'm sure I could have gotten it for a little less, but I'd walked out 4 times prior and the prices didn't drop. Even went to a different dealership to get price check and they were more than this one.

OT: If you want a dually get it. My dad had a dually and it was fun as hell to drive. Just being one of the widest things on the road was fun. The only down side with having a dually is that your MPG is going to tank because of the extra friction. But if MPG don't matter then......Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo eeettttttttttt
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:20 pm

Well if Im spending that much, Id hope itd be somewhat practical. Not a whole lot of sandy up this way, more hilly and woods. I would hate to get it and not be able to go down some less than ideal paths to get stuck.

I test drove a few and it wasnt all that bad. My mpg is bad now. How could it get worse?
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by Halfapint » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:41 pm

w3rdtoyamama wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:20 pm
Well if Im spending that much, Id hope itd be somewhat practical. Not a whole lot of sandy up this way, more hilly and woods. I would hate to get it and not be able to go down some less than ideal paths to get stuck.

I test drove a few and it wasnt all that bad. My mpg is bad now. How could it get worse?
Oh, for some reason I was thinking it was sand stuff you were dealing with. Yeah, if it's offroading or stuff no you don't want a dually lol you wont even fit on trails in that case. I believe you have the 6.4l, my mom has that in her 350, its a good engine but it went through some growing pains. It was still produced by international, however they were still experimenting with turbos (they had just switched from the previous model with twin turbos) and it wasn't doing what they wanted. In 2012 they switched to the 6.7l. This is based off the 6.4, but is produced by Ford. from 2012-2017 they had some issues because they wanted to get away with putting a smaller turbo in there. In 2017 they switched to a larger turbo and also had the added benefit of boosting HP and TQ. So far from reading reviews of this new power plant and the new turbo people are loooooving it.

It also has the added benefit of not working as hard, so my 250 is getting an average of 16mpg (engine is still getting broken in so I have a feeling it will go up from there) VS my mom's which averages around 12mpg. So any of the new models (if you go with Ford) should actually improve you MPG, plus spend 500-700 and get it chipped, you'll be able to go extra lean for highway driving, or rollin coal if you're hauling (Ok no rolling coal anymore because of the DEF and exhaust stuffs)
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:59 pm

I have the 6.2 gasser. Vroom.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by moab » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:07 am

I've bought new. And I've bought used. And my best advice is if your going to buy new. Use an online retailer like truecar.com (I'd research these types of sites. I bought on carsdirect.com back in the day. It's now very different.) but I got 10k off msrp that way. Cheaper than any advertised sale in all of Socal at the time. And the best part is no hassle from sales people. Walked into the dealership, paid my fee (I had a check from the bank. Or you can take a check from your banks finance department. Or you can finance it thru the site.), and drove off with a new truck. No questions or upselling at all. They weren't allowed to speak to you. I refuse to spend 5 hours in a dealership withstanding the upsell hell that is car dealerships.

But I still lost a lot of money on that truck in the first year/10k miles. Always buy used with low miles. YEar doesn't matter as much as mileage. I also look at model year changes. And try to buy the oldest model with the features I want. With the lowest mileage. Like my Yukon XL was the same model from 2007 until like 2012 or something. I found a low mileage 4 wheel drive 2007 with all the same options as a 2012. For way cheaper. And it had less miles than any of the later model years I was looking at. You can do the same thing with the new models. Say they started in like 2014 or something. And are the same today. So don't be afraid to look at older model years of the same vintage as your looking for.

I highly suggest buying in a very specific way:

1) Look for one owner cars. ANd ALWAYS run a Carfax. Carfax will tell you EVERYTHING about a car. If you've never run one your missing the boat. It will show you how many owners. It will tell you not only if the cars EVER been in a wreck (even a small one). IT will show you EVERY maintenance that's ever been done on the car. EVen little mom and pop oil change places come up. Everything you need to know about a car will come up on a carfax. If they had the fan belt replaced it will come up. If they had the 50k mile warranty service done it will show up. Everything shows up. They run $39 and cheaper if you buy them in sets of 5 IIRC. And they are the new defacto standard for buying a used car. You can no longer be ripped off. USe this even if your buying from a dealership used. Hell especially if your doing that. You should be buying from a private owner.

2) Always say to the owner. In these exact words. "Would you mind if I paid for an inspection at your local dealership?" No one can say no to that. It's just the way it comes out. It's like your asking to do them a favor. And if they do say no. Walk the other way. They run about $100-$200 and will tell you everything that is wrong with the car. NEgotiate from there. But do the carfax first. You find out a lot about a car that will preclude you from even wasting money on an inspection at the dealership.

3) Craigslist (fortunately because it's free) is the go to place now to look for cars and trucks. Everything is listed on there. No one uses the autotrader anymore. OR the local paper. And many times they are double listed in craigslist.

4) Don't be afraid of buying a car out of your area. Especially if it's newer and low miles. And the carfax checks out and the dealership inspection. Those two things can tell you more about a car than you driving it yourself. Cost of shipping a car is around a grand to $1200 coast to coast. I bought a car in Seattle and I live in LA. Cost me $900 to have it shipped. Straight to my door. But like I said. It passed the carfax and had a dealership inspection done on it. So if shipping fits into your budget don't be afraid to look at cars in other states.

5) This is sort of in reverse order. But always use consumerreports.org for research. It's the only non corporate sponsored review site anywhere. They have great research on new and used cars. I especially like their lists of best used cars under 30k or 10k or whatever your budget is.

I've purchased 4 cars in the last 7 years this way. (Series of auto accidents and other issues) Many more before that. I have always gotten a way better deal than dealership - new or used. If you look up blue book values. Dealership values are always the highest selling price. Then private owner. And then of course trade in value. Which is always less than fair market value. So sell your own car. Don't trade it in.

Even if your looking for last years model. You can easily find one with less than 10k. And at about 2/3rds the price. It makes no sense to buy new. It's just to much of a mark up. And you can use that extra money to outfit the rig the way you want it. Or on other preps you need worse.

Lastly, my father had duelies. I'd scrap that idea for a BOV. They dont' do well off road. Are fuel hogs. And generally are only good for carrying HEAVY loads on flat ground.
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:26 pm

Thanks for the post, moab. Lots of helpful info.
I will say that I did run carfax on this truck I have...actually bought carfaxes in bulk so I could run any that I was interested in. They truly are worth their money. Mine came fron Canada. :D
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Re: Buying Brand New Truck?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:43 pm

ssgcmw wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 pm
One minor suggestion: see if you can find a 1 to 2 year old truck in excellent condition to buy. That way someone else was paying the hefty first-year depreciation.
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