Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Discussions about the devices that supply a means for movement of people and goods.

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RonnyRonin
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by RonnyRonin » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:41 pm

perhaps a bit, but with the new fat cart width is the main problem, the weight is simply too far out to the sides. When the cart is upright and rolling straight it is completely stable, it is mostly when you stop and try to brace the cart upright that you notice it trying to fall over, I just bought a new rack that is much narrower and that should help. The original cart was much more stable just with a normal width bike rack, and you can shift the weight to towards the bars by leaning the cart back but that just means extra energy you use to support it for no real gain
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by Zed Hunter » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:33 pm

It could easily be made into a bike trailer.

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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by eugene » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:32 pm

Any way to lower the panniers? Right now it looks like the are completely above the axle, if you could get part of the weight below the axle that would help with balance.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by the_alias » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:29 pm

eugene wrote:Any way to lower the panniers? Right now it looks like the are completely above the axle, if you could get part of the weight below the axle that would help with balance.
Balance didn't seem a huge issue when I tried it out.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by RonnyRonin » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:26 pm

I'm probably overstating the balance issue, it is only more tippy compared to the previous cart, not really that tippy in general. I would still like it to be less tippy, hence buying a narrower rack. I won't lower the panniers below the axle if I can help it as I don't want to give up ground clearance or approach angle.

Zed Hunter wrote:It could easily be made into a bike trailer.
This would be a huge plus to me, and I've mulled it over a bit but haven't come up with a turn-key way to do it. I won't do anything that requires fab work so I'm pretty limited on actual implementation.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:49 am

Fascinating topic. Thank you.
For me -and I might be stating the obvious- I have no need for it at this time but I can learn a lot by reading about your ideas/efforts and seeing how many different materials people use to assemble a machine such that it works well. As a Lt, a buddy and I spent weeks learning about the various methods used over the years to transport HMGs and mortar tubes and base plates when foot mobile. A regular two-wheeled bike with straps seemed to require the least work when pushed. You can find much of that info online these days. Also, where there is need there is a market. See here for example: http://www.ruggedgear.com/index.cfm/pag ... prd219.htm

(Excuses) I'm getting old, my time is valuable and I can often learn faster through the trials of someone else with better ideas.

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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by Zed Hunter » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:15 pm

Curved tubing like some bikes have for center bar clamped rigidly to fork just under handle bars rising over the rear tire of the bicycle to a pivot under The seat. The cart/trailer would be facing backwards. Remove tow bar and use as cart.

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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by eugene » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:05 pm

RonnyRonin wrote:I'm probably overstating the balance issue, it is only more tippy compared to the previous cart, not really that tippy in general. I would still like it to be less tippy, hence buying a narrower rack. I won't lower the panniers below the axle if I can help it as I don't want to give up ground clearance or approach angle.

Zed Hunter wrote:It could easily be made into a bike trailer.
This would be a huge plus to me, and I've mulled it over a bit but haven't come up with a turn-key way to do it. I won't do anything that requires fab work so I'm pretty limited on actual implementation.
Anything higher than ~1/3 of the wheel diameter you can't easily roll over so you would have to lift up anyway. I'd drop the panniers down to about there and it won't really affect ground clearance.

A single bar like a trailer bike if you welded a pin to connect it to, copy and paste the link since photobucket went to crap

http://s306.photobucket.com/user/eugene ... 5.jpg.html

To make things simpler I bet you could do two bars in a V fashion that could clamp on your handlebars. Then you could even put a pack on top of the V.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by RonnyRonin » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:22 pm

If you simply turn around you can quickly pull the cart over much taller obstacles then you can push it, well over 1/3rd of the tire. Ground clearance isn't a huge concern most of the time, but side-hilling is a function of width and vertical clearance and I since I consider my balance issues already solved now I don't see much to be gained from giving that up. I don't really know of a way to get the panniers lower without just throwing $100+ at a new rack, and most of the lowriders give up the flat deck on top which I am quite attached to. My custom panniers will likely be a bit taller and hang closer to axle line, which if loaded properly should accomplish some of the same ends.
eugene wrote: A single bar like a trailer bike if you welded a pin to connect it to...
once again, any solution involving welding is off the table for me. I do have a tagalong trailer and hitch that could be cut up for the gooseneck portion but the gooseneck-to-cart interface is a big question mark. Enough pipe clamps and bolts would likely get the job done but a clean quick detach solution eludes me.

Image

This is my bike and trailer, it appears the handle bar mount on the trailer is close enough to the right height that you could just clamp the handlebars on the cart in. If I could find some wing-headed bolts it would at least be a tool-less removal if not quick detach. Since the gooseneck can pivot freely up and down the interface would have to be very secure or else the gooseneck and top of the cart would likely creep down overtime till they touched the rear tire.
Zed Hunter wrote:Curved tubing like some bikes have for center bar clamped rigidly to fork...
If you have a specific clamp in mind I would love to see it, I can dream up ones that would work but I haven't seen them for sale. Defining WHAT needs to happen is quite simple, it is the actual details of HOW that I haven't quite fleshed out.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by eugene » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:02 pm

The electrical conduit section of Lowes or Homeboy Depot you'll find lots of nice clamps, if you zoom in on my pics you'll see one holding the rack to the trailer bike seat back.

ok, crude drawing time :)

Image

Make an A frame with the top of the A having a couple hinges and clamping to your seat and the bottom of the A clamping to the handlebars just inside the grips. Then a third shorter bar from the center of the A to the stem of your new trailer so it will hold it upright.

Though if your trailer bike has the foldable tongue like ours, you could fold it and make a handelbar attachment that slides in it there.

well, drawing works in preview.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by RonnyRonin » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:28 pm

After spending far too long in both Lowes and Home depot I couldn't find any connectors I trusted so I pulled my tagalong apart:

Image


I used the old handlebar mount on the tagalong tongue to bolt to the cart handlebars


Image


obviously it doesn't track quite right because it has to be mounted off-center:


Image


Far from perfect, but I haven't had a chance to come up with a better solution yet.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by 91Eunozs » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:42 pm

You may have to drill and tap new threads on one side or the other, but if the bar clamp on the tagalong and your single-wheel “cart” are the same inner diameter, just use the fixed clamp half from the tagalong and the cap from the other...maybe a simple piece of drilled and tapped flat stock (or just drilled if you use long nuts/bolts) behind the clamping point to serve as an adapter.

If not the same ID, I’d simply find a bar that works with the tagalong...even if that meant getting a new stem for your cart’s fork. There may also be a sping coupling/clamp that you could use in between as an adapter. We had one on the two-wheel trailer (In Step brand maybe?) we’d pull behind our bikes on the tow bar where the it clamped onto the bicycle frame from the side. Allowed some flex while staying rigidly affixed.

Edit: the sping between the square tubing here

Image

Alternately have a short horizontal bar mounted above the handlebars of your “cart” for the tagalong to clamp onto... maybe on two short bicycle stems that are a small enough diameter to clamp around the handlebar on either side of your fork stem. It would look like a square when finished.

Or spend a few bucks and get a custom piece welded! :lol:
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:43 pm

91Eunozs wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:42 pm
You may have to drill and tap new threads on one side or the other, but if the bar clamp on the tagalong and your single-wheel “cart” are the same inner diameter, just use the fixed clamp half from the tagalong and the cap from the other...maybe a simple piece of drilled and tapped flat stock (or just drilled if you use long nuts/bolts) behind the clamping point to serve as an adapter.
Because of the angles involved a 1:1 wouldn't work, but likely an angled adaptor could be fabed. This and the existing make-do I posted both suffer from being pretty slow to switch from trailer to cart mode, some kind of QR clamp would be ideal, something that simply held two pipes in parallel would let me clap the tagalong tube to either the stem or fork tube on the cart, but I have found no such clamp.
91Eunozs wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:42 pm
If not the same ID, I’d simply find a bar that works with the tagalong...even if that meant getting a new stem for your cart’s fork.
Really not sure what you have in mind here, two clamps/stems simply can't both occupy the center of the bar at once. I've seen one-piece bar/stem combos that leave the center of the bar clear but being made for bikes the stem would be facing the wrong direction.
91Eunozs wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:42 pm
Alternately have a short horizontal bar mounted above the handlebars of your “cart” for the tagalong to clamp onto... maybe on two short bicycle stems that are a small enough diameter to clamp around the handlebar on either side of your fork stem. It would look like a square when finished.
Short of finding a better single clamp solution this is likely the direction I will have to go. I am really trying to keep this project 100% duplicatable with off the shelf parts so anyone can build one without custom parts.


ETA: with some more creative googling I've found some clamps closer to my ideal:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/National-Ha ... /203359505

My local hardware stores only had very small versions of these I wouldn't trust under load, but with a big enough clamp and wingnut this would fit my criteria of tool-less semi-QR removal.

http://www.utahtrikes.com/PROD-11618838.html

not tool-less, but might work for either straight tube-to-tube mating, or the secondary handlebar solution Eunozs described, would likely need two either way.


https://www.txmstore.com/pipe-to-pipe-c ... ppc-20-10/

Something like this with wingnuts on the cart side might be my huckleberry, just need allthread and some bent flat bar.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by 91Eunozs » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:32 pm

Though I much prefer your fat bike tire, maybe push the easy button?

Image

Or rig some way to connect the cart stem or bars to the bike’s rear axle?
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by Mrselfdestruct » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:24 pm

Dont know if youve solved the parking brake issue or not yet, but most bike rimbrakes have a nut on the lever that lets you adjust for wear on the pads, or an out of true wheel. You'll find the brake cable housing running through it.
Adjust it close for normal use, and you may be able to turn it a couple more times to pinch the rim when you want to stay, couple turns back to get going again.
Bent rims probably are not going to be an issue on a lowspeed application like this.
Nice work.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by RonnyRonin » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:49 pm

91Eunozs wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:32 pm
Or rig some way to connect the cart stem or bars to the bike’s rear axle?
And how would you go about that; specifically?


Seems like I would just be starting from square one, hunting down one specialized clamp still seems easier then creating a whole new attachment method from scratch. While I will probably get a BOB (brand) trailer eventually the disadvantages of a non-centered load on a hand cart are to great for me to seriously consider one as a solution.

Found these locally:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/YARDGARD-1- ... /204510263

don't currently fit as the difference in diameter is to great between the tagalong and the fork tube, but I'm going to try cutting one side down before I give up on them. I added some giant wingnuts and lock washers to try and make them quicker on and off.

Mrselfdestruct wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:24 pm
Dont know if youve solved the parking brake issue or not yet, but most bike rimbrakes have a nut on the lever that lets you adjust for wear on the pads, or an out of true wheel. You'll find the brake cable housing running through it.
Adjust it close for normal use, and you may be able to turn it a couple more times to pinch the rim when you want to stay, couple turns back to get going again.
Bent rims probably are not going to be an issue on a lowspeed application like this.
Nice work.

I actually ended up pulling the brakes off the original cart all together, unless I run into a situation that changes my mind I have so far enjoyed the lack of moving parts and cables more then the extra help stopping.
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Re: Building a Bug Out Cart for fun and profit

Post by velojym » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:39 pm

I've gone ahead and installed the solid fork on my Paratrooper, so that's out... but, my daughter has far outgrown her Trail-a-bike, and while I was down in the basement pondering the idea of modifying our tandem into a solo cargo-touring bike, my eyes fell upon the little t-a-b.
I don't think I'd go as far as cutting on anything to make it a better push wagon, but I'd concentrate more on its trailer-a-bility, cutting the handlebar short, or just replacing it with some straight tubing, and running another tube across, atop the seatpost. These would be the base for a platform, which could hold bulky items on top, and maybe up to two sets of panniers on the sides.

If I had to ditch my bike, I'd have to work out a way to guide it as a push-cart, but in an emergency, I can see using a small hacksaw to remove the portion ahead of the handlebar stem so I can use the forward bar to guide it. The tire would be either a heavy duty "puncture resistant" model, or I'd even go airless, though I'm not as fond of airless on the bike itself.

If I were really feeling froggy, I could keep some of the drive parts on there, and run a small hub, or mid-mount motor on it, just for a little help on the hills. Pusher electric trailers seem to work well enough, and I wouldn't be putting all that extra weight and complexity on my bike.

Also, as they did in Vietnam, a pole can be rigged to the handlebars to more easily guide the bike uphill, when the weight is just too much to easily pedal.
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