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My BOC would most likely be a
Game Cart 25%  25%  [ 6 ]
Wheel Barrow 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
Jogging Stroller 17%  17%  [ 4 ]
Lawn Cart 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Dolly/Hand Truck 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
Custom Build 42%  42%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 24
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:27 pm 
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It seems like it's been awhile since the last BOC discussion, I'm putting the finishing touches on my own BOC project right now and I thought it would be good to see what resources anyone else has found on the subject, or personal projects they have tried. Love to see any links you have bookmarked or pictures you have buried on your hard drives.

Game Carts:

The resource that seems the most comprehensive, and pops up the most in my web searches is the Game Tote guy:
http://gametote.com/one-wheel-game-cart-review.html
Lots of different designs shown, with some sensible pros and cons for each style.

Image


Probably the easiest to source is a simple two-wheeled cart from cabelas:
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse.cmd?N=1100183
I myself have felt mighty tempted a few times when the Herter's cart goes on sale, and I have seen more then a few of these second hand on craigslist.

Image


My personal favorite design, the one-wheeled game cart:
http://www.packwheel.com/
Light, balanced, maneuverable, interchangeable parts.
Image


Purpose Built:

I seem to remember a few overpriced carts marketed to preppers come and go, some with ballistic protection and other "must-haves," I seem to remember Tim Ralston even promoting one. This is the only one a quick google search turned up for me:
http://www.exodussolutions.net/

Hiking Carts:

only a few in this category, currently an overpriced niche:

Very creative modular design, with single and double wheel options, harness or hand carry:
http://monowalker.com/shop/index.php/en/shop/trailer
Image

http://dixonrollerpack.com/
Image

Other:

Garden carts and wheel barrows are often discussed, usually these seem to be dismissed for poor balance or poor offroad capability. 4-wheel carts certainly seem unwieldy on anything but level ground, and european wheel barrows can ware you out pretty quick. Jogging strollers have been suggested as well, and might be suitable for some uses.
Image

Some human-powered expeditions have utilized large cargo carts to extend the range of mere mortals:
Image

Image

This guy was walking across the US for veterans I believe:
Image

Developing countries without access to reliable transportation or bad road infrastructure use primitive load hauling techniques a curious person could learn from:
Image

Image

Discussions:

A few threads I've found on another forum (seems to come up on SB often enough, haven't seen it come up to many other places), some with quite good ideas and some with the usual outlandish schemes:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=245349
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=340211
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=185484
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=165398
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=318345

Hunting specific, but informative:
http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=2&threadid=385236

Image


This guy shows a decent overview of some options and his own pretty clever design:
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=35455.0

Image


Uses:

So why do I want a BOC? I will try to list my own imagined uses, roughly from least outlandish to most:

1) Game cart. Whether in normal hunting use or survival hunting, game is one of the heaviest things you might have to transport over really nasty ground. You more then likely get to choose where your BOL is, even a remote/wilderness one, and optimize for transportation but you don't get to decide where the game is.

2) Supplement a normal BOV. In the case of a car breakdown/fuel outage a cart could allow you to either a) continue on with many more supplies then could be transported by pack or b) search much further for fuel or parts for the car.

3) Remote resupply. In case I do select a BOL (or just an awesome vacation spot) that is intentionally out of reach of normal autos a cart could allow me to either a) pre-stock the location much faster and more efficiently then packing everything in by packboard or b) possibly allow me to stock it with equipment that is simply too heavy to pack in by packboard.

4) Generally increase non-powered BO range. I live in a pretty dry area, I haven't looked into it too much but it is conceivable there are areas between water sources that are simply too wide to risk traversing on foot, carrying extra water by cart would allow a person to cross much wider waterless stretches. Similarly keeping a BOB packed for a normal foot BO and loading the cart with nothing but consumables would increase a persons range exponentially.

5) Increasing comfort/capability. Conversely to number 4, if the range requirement remains fixed, the cart would allow for much more comfortable gear then would normally be allowed with a backpack; larger shelters, wood stoves, thicker sleeping pads, booze, etc. I don't see myself utilizing it often, but you could do some serious glamping with another 50 lbs of optional gear.

6) Free up weight for a fighting load. I can theoretically handle up to 50lbs and still travel efficiently, if 30lbs of that is taken up by rifle, ammo, and armor that doesn't leave much for food and shelter. If a cart could take most of this off my back I could maintain a trim, mobile fighting load with only "freeze at night" gear and still have a reasonably amount of shelter and consumables with me.

7) True INCH scenario. As has been said by many here, an INCH bag could very well be a fools bet. A cart could allow for some serious pioneering tools that would make the INCH concept more tenable. Full sized axes, saws, shovels, more food gathering equipment, longer term shelter, etc.


I have been trying to look at my transportation hierarchy more holistically lately, and decide where a cart fits in with a car, bike, and foot travel. Certainly it could conceivably take you places a bike couldn't, and carry more then you can on just your back, but just where it falls between the two for efficiency I have yet to test.
I have pack frame options coming out my ears, and up till recently (with both a bike purchase and a cart build) non-powered transportation meant either traveling very light or multiple trips with cargo strapped to pack boards.
Bug out Bicycles is a topic worthy of its own thread, but I would like some discussion on when they would choose a bike over a cart or vice versa.

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Last edited by RonnyRonin on Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:09 am 
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I don't know, I can certainly imagine catastrophic societal collapse leading that way, but I think it would take a considerable time with no hint of rebound. I imagine even small communities (Postman style) would take a narrow view of slavers and as soon as feasible would team up to push them out. Pseudo feudal systems? Sure, but I think it would take a generation or two for cultural values to change enough to tolerate true slavery (at least in parts of the country I've lived in).

But paid or unpaid, the logistics of transporting enough food and supplies for whatever size group you have would remain largely the same, backpack only isn't feasible for long distances.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:11 am 
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I put sizeable amount of resources into my bug out bicycle this summer, a cart will be the next venture in my mobility preps. Originally I had intended to have something which could be towed by bicycle and also moved by hand, but what I hadn't thought of is the integrated breaking system shown on some of the carts above. This is now a must for any cart procurement in my future. Heavy loads down hill require that kind of control.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:45 pm 
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Totally agree on the brakes, I'm going to try and get my cart out this weekend but I haven't quite got the breaks installed, I might leave them off to just cement my need for them in the future. This is one advantage of going with mountain bike parts, you do have lots of options for brake components.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:16 pm 
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You could easily adapt the one wheel to be a bike trailer. I'm thinking I might adapt my bike trailer to be a cart should I have to abandon the bike:

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:57 pm 
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The double jogging strollers roll really easily on pavement with 70-90 lb loads. But, if you want urban specific cart, a folding shopping cart or trolley cart. is going to be hard to beat.

I've seen bicycle wheel rickshaws used in the desert. If I was looking to cover rough ground, a converted (drag sled or rickshaw) mountain bicycle trailer would be my choice.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:01 pm 
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eugene wrote:
You could easily adapt the one wheel to be a bike trailer. I'm thinking I might adapt my bike trailer to be a cart should I have to abandon the bike:


I would think just adding a cross bar to the end that connects to the bike (tougne? stinger?) would do it. Is it a folding model? If it folds in front of the handle bars just turning the bars around might make a decent cart.

modifying a tagalong for cargo duty is next on my list after I get my hand cart nailed down.

The packwheel isn't too far conceptually from the Extrawheel trailer:
http://www.extrawheel.com/
Both seem to have some of the same advantages (small, light, maneuverable).

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:21 pm 
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Slavery would be illegal there Twiz. I didn't report you but would have if someone else had not already done so. I'd also call your photo insensitive in the context of the discussion. Depictions of boobs are not allowed either I think.
Quote:
Bug out Bicycles is a topic worthy of its own thread, but I would like some discussion on when they would choose a bike over a cart or vice versa.


I would not pick a bicycle over a cart if I were intent on hauling a lot of stuff. Quadrocycles are a really handy form of transportation. You can carry a lot of stuff in one and share the load of pedaling. Theoretically you could travel 3-4X the same distance per day as you could no foot.

Image


Image

Image

If a quad won't get you where you need to in a pinch then you will be packing it. I like the tow behind dual and single wheel designs. Anything to get the weight off the back.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:22 pm 
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I have one of the Deluxe Cabela's game carts, previously I had a cheaper game cart.

I am a big proponent for carts or bikes, to extend your carry capacity. There is only so much you can carry in a pack before it weighs you down too much. Primary use for a cart would be adding it to a vehicle in case you BOV breaks down, runs out of fuel, or is blocked from further travel due to road conditions. A cart allows you to keep going with more gear than just by foot and with a pack.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:23 pm 
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ineffableone wrote:
I have one of the Deluxe Cabela's game carts, previously I had a cheaper game cart.


Interested in a comparison between the two, is the dulux worth the upcharge? Also; PICS!


Stercutus wrote:
Slavery would be illegal there Twiz.


This seems to come up every so often. The rules state:
Quote:
1.) No discussion of illegal activities as a viable option.


It is not emphatically clear, but I certainly read it as "other nasty people will do ____" which seems no more or less a violation of rule 1 as any discussion of the necessity of self defense, or the possibility of other people stealing your things which is tantamount to any discussion of home security ("other nasty people will do ____"). Unless anyone actually read that as "____ would be a good option" I fail to see it as a clear violation of the rules. In poor taste and slightly off topic? No argument.


Stercutus wrote:

If a quad won't get you where you need to in a pinch then you will be packing it.


Seems like the quad bike could be the most efficient human powered road vehicle, but I think there is an awful lot of trails and even nasty roads that would be no sweat for a normal mountain bike that the quad bike wouldn't work on. Heck, I even saw a tandem mountain bike the other day on a trail that I was almost hike-a-biking (complete novice, that isn't saying much), certainly a lot of trails in my area that it would be width limited on.

Do you have any personal experience with quad bikes? I can't say I've ever seen one in person so I'm guessing here. I've had some brief time on a super low geared trike built for hauling trailers and it didn't seem to do so well on anything but paved roads.

Stercutus wrote:
I would not pick a bicycle over a cart if I were intent on hauling a lot of stuff.


The practical load of a bicycle is something I'm trying to suss out, road touring bikes and urban cargo bikes seem capable of some impressive weights but most off-road bike packers don't seem to carry any more then backpackers, and often even less. Like many things it seems the load capacity is directly proportional to the quality of the road you are using.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:41 pm 
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RonnyRonin wrote:
ineffableone wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Slavery would be illegal there Twiz.


This seems to come up every so often. The rules state:
Quote:
1.) No discussion of illegal activities as a viable option.


It is not emphatically clear, but I certainly read it as "other nasty people will do ____" which seems no more or less a violation of rule 1 as any discussion of the necessity of self defense, or the possibility of other people stealing your things which is tantamount to any discussion of home security ("other nasty people will do ____"). Unless anyone actually read that as "____ would be a good option" I fail to see it as a clear violation of the rules. In poor taste and slightly off topic? No argument.

Yeah, a simple mention of coerced labor/slavery with no additional material, relevant or otherwise, would be off topic and not in a useful way but we're pretty used to that.

Stercutus's advice about removing the pic would be well taken, it adds nothing useful and that's really what pushes it over the line imo.

ZS itself has a number of other cart threads. Unfortunately some of the pic-links in a couple are defunct.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34105&p=702336&hilit=cart#p702336
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24977&p=514155&hilit=cart#p514155
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1848&hilit=cart

A couple of bike-trailer threads, tho I KNOW there's others I'm not finding.
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=89657&p=1992051&hilit=bike+trailer#p1992051
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=37161&p=764483&hilit=bike+trailer#p764483

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RonnyRonin wrote:
eugene wrote:
You could easily adapt the one wheel to be a bike trailer. I'm thinking I might adapt my bike trailer to be a cart should I have to abandon the bike:


I would think just adding a cross bar to the end that connects to the bike (tougne? stinger?) would do it. Is it a folding model? If it folds in front of the handle bars just turning the bars around might make a decent cart.

modifying a tagalong for cargo duty is next on my list after I get my hand cart nailed down.

The packwheel isn't too far conceptually from the Extrawheel trailer:
http://www.extrawheel.com/
Both seem to have some of the same advantages (small, light, maneuverable).


The latch to fold the tongue is right in front of the bottle carrier.
I added the rack on the back, because the wheel was smaller than usual the rack was too high so I made some drop mounts to lower it. The cargo box on the top has sides that unfold like panniers so bigger panniers can be added easily.
Kids have gotten older now so the weight of the seat back is gone.

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duodecima wrote:
ZS itself has a number of other cart threads. Unfortunately some of the pic-links in a couple are defunct.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34105&p=702336&hilit=cart#p702336



Thanks! I was hoping someone with more patience then me would dig through the archives. That first link in particular I found a good browse, the pic of two US soldiers shows just how much weight can be carried around in a hand cart (start counting the ammo cans). Also it tells me there have been more then a few companies that had products in this area that are now defunct, as evidenced by the majority of the links being dead.


eugene wrote:
The latch to fold the tongue is right in front of the bottle carrier.
I added the rack on the back, because the wheel was smaller than usual the rack was too high so I made some drop mounts to lower it. The cargo box on the top has sides that unfold like panniers so bigger panniers can be added easily.
Kids have gotten older now so the weight of the seat back is gone.


do you have any larger or more recent pictures? Like I said I've got my own tagalong project planned and haven't found that many examples out there so I'd love to see more of yours.

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For one man use, I've thought the lowly and common golf-bag cart has a lot of potential. For one thing it has wheels designed for a low pressure footprint (no doubt to prevent tearing up the green) which would really help rolling across very soft ground like sand.

In my lowly opinion a bug out cart should be able to: roll across sand without bogging down, pass through a simple doorway without getting stuck, and light enough to haul up at least one flight of stairs.

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doing some more googling, found an interesting design project:

http://www.rocketshipdesign.com/world-cart-reducing-back-breaking-labor/

Image

limited utility from wood wheels, but interesting thought experiment.


Some developing world cargo carts, all look road-limited to me:

Image

Image

Image

Image


A purpose-built bike trailer/hand cart combo:
http://www.mayacycle.com/

Image


A very promising looking (if pricey) cart, good flotation if loose sand or soil is a factor in your area, bike trailer capability, even receiver hitch compatibility:
https://www.amazon.com/Multifunction-Beach-Cart-Lightweight-Attachment/dp/B00DJUUCGA

Image



More info on the M-3A4 Utility Hand Cart:
http://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m3a4.php

Image


And a WWII "quartermaster cart:"

Image

And a WWII cart used for a large radio:

Image



I have wondered if the newer military litter carriers could be made into a serviceable cart, but most look too top heavy for my tastes:

https://colemans.com/shop/militaria/misc-militaria-gallery/u-s-g-i-wheeled-litter-carrier-unused/

Image



Not too surprisingly the bulk of human powered transport seems to revolve around cargo bikes, bike trailers, and cargo trikes.
Even less surprisingly a lot of cargo transport in the developing world revolves around the use of stock animals. Certainly a strong case can be made for their use, but I can sum up my interest as "NOPE."

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RonnyRonin wrote:

do you have any larger or more recent pictures? Like I said I've got my own tagalong project planned and haven't found that many examples out there so I'd love to see more of yours.


Image

Went from that for my son and my daughter on a seat on the back of my wife's bike to the double:
Image

I found an adjustable rack and cut the outer tubes shorter and drilled a new hole.
Image

blurry but closer of the bag on the rack.
Image

The mount to the seat is a $1.29 conduit hanger from Lowes

As the kids get older I'm going back to the single as they ride their own bikes and the trailer will be for cargo.

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RonnyRonin wrote:
A purpose-built bike trailer/hand cart combo:
http://www.mayacycle.com/

Image


I think something like this would be the best. However if I were to get one as a bike trailer I'd want to customize it or build m own that could fit those black and yellow plastic totes. Something that's a "standard" size, anything that has a custom size bag would be a little pain in the ass. Having it fit a standard container could allow you to be able to stack/tie down things. You could even have them prepacked and just throw on there and leave.

I liked that wooden cart in the first link that was pretty bad ass and looks like it could hold a bit. taking that as a model and building your own with better construction, real wheels, and maybe a leave spring suspension to allow for some movement and a more stable ride.

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RonnyRonin wrote:
ineffableone wrote:
I have one of the Deluxe Cabela's game carts, previously I had a cheaper game cart.


Interested in a comparison between the two, is the dulux worth the upcharge? Also; PICS!


It wasn't really all that more expensive, I think it was $99. I feel yes it was worth the price with a 500 lb capacity, sturdier construction, and independent axles for each wheel that are well protected from rocks or branches making it so there isn't an axle running through the center that gets hung up on stuff. One draw back is I need to add some sort of kick stand or something to be able to set it down easily without setting it all the way down to the ground.

I will try to take pics soon, right now it is in use with my 3000 watt generator is on it to power my trailer on my homestead.

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ineffableone wrote:
independent axles for each wheel that are well protected from rocks or branches making it so there isn't an axle running through the center that gets hung up on stuff.


Not something I had thought too hard about, glad you mention it.


An interesting read on one of the historically pertinent hand cart bug outs:
http://www.historynet.com/mormon-handcart-horrors.htm

Mormons just have to be several years ahead on every prepping trend it seems.

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gunsandrockets wrote:
In my lowly opinion a bug out cart should be able to: roll across sand without bogging down, pass through a simple doorway without getting stuck, and light enough to haul up at least one flight of stairs.


Sounds like a narrow beach or dock cart with balloon tires


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:06 am 
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Found this leafing through a book of outdoor projects at the local used bookstore:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:41 pm 
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Some great ideas, after research I find the Burley Travoy https://www.amazon.com/Burley-Design-Travoy-Commuter-Trailer/dp/B0038LPO5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478460693&sr=8-1&keywords=burley+travoyhits a sweet spot and is well engineered

Lightweight: @ 10 lbs, yet has a 60 # capacity

Multipurpose: Goes from bike trailer to handcart fairly easy.

Reviews: Great reviews from verified purchasers

It's somewhat spendy at $250 but that the one I'll prolly settle on.

A lower cost multipurpose bike trailer/Handcart that I like is the Veelar https://www.amazon.com/Veelar-Bicycle-Trailer-Shopping-Capacity-20315/dp/B00B3DRCSQ/ref=pd_sbs_468_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=XSEQ5B5W3AFM2D07YEXJ @ $112 slightly higher capacity and would accomodate my bulldog and BOB.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Thought I'd tease my BOCart build, I'm pretty close to being ready to publish:

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The pile of parts, pre-assembly.

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