Realistic Medical Kit

Discussions of the best (or worst) equipment to have on hand for use in the event of an injury during an emergency.

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Doctorr Fabulous
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Re: Realistic Medical Kit

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:22 pm

Gyrfalcon wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:
Kommander wrote:So it's like quick clot then.
It's ancient Chinese quik-clot! Ancient wonder chinese quikclot! Yeah, I'll stick with QC myself.
While it is good to be cautious about many things that China exports, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this concoction out of hand. It would be unscientific to do so. We might not have a smallpox vaccine if it weren't for Dr. Edward Jenner being humble enough to listen to a milkmaid who said she wasn't worried about getting smallpox because she'd already had cowpox.

And I personally knew a man who was an Army physician during the Korean War, who saw many troops getting terrible burns that wouldn't heal. These burns were caused by stoves and miniature heaters, some of local manufacture. In that climate and at that altitude, the wounds simply wouldn't heal with the across-the-board superior Western medicine. So this doctor, instead of scorning the locals, said to himself, "These people have been living with these stoves for years. They must get burned, too. I wonder how they treat their burns?" He approached some of the locals, and they showed him the only treatment that worked to heal this particular kind of burn in that climate. The remedy was put into the Army's medical texts, and as far as I know, it's still there.

Speaking of Asian medicine, MRI studies have also shown activity changes in areas of the brain indicating a reduction in pain corresponding to the relief claimed by the patients.

Studies have been done that show one of the main ingredients in Yunnan Baiyao, Notoginseng, is indeed an efficacious hemostatic agent. I would be reluctant to dismiss the substance out of hand as hogwash or quackery.
My point was, I have an ancient chinese wonder herb...and I have USGI issued quik-clot. Which should I take, considering I trained with quik-clot, I get issued quik-clot, and quik-clot comes on a gauze? Not a tough choice, if you're talking about a trauma kit.

Lastly (this goes with the quicklot vs ACWQ) triage. It sounds like a dick move, but do the msot good for the most people. 3 living, breathing crippled people are better than 1 walking, talkign person and two dead people.
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Realistic Medical Kit

Post by fourway » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:34 pm

Doc Torr wrote:
Gyrfalcon wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:
Kommander wrote:So it's like quick clot then.
It's ancient Chinese quik-clot! Ancient wonder chinese quikclot! Yeah, I'll stick with QC myself.
While it is good to be cautious about many things that China exports, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this concoction out of hand. It would be unscientific to do so. We might not have a smallpox vaccine if it weren't for Dr. Edward Jenner being humble enough to listen to a milkmaid who said she wasn't worried about getting smallpox because she'd already had cowpox.

And I personally knew a man who was an Army physician during the Korean War, who saw many troops getting terrible burns that wouldn't heal. These burns were caused by stoves and miniature heaters, some of local manufacture. In that climate and at that altitude, the wounds simply wouldn't heal with the across-the-board superior Western medicine. So this doctor, instead of scorning the locals, said to himself, "These people have been living with these stoves for years. They must get burned, too. I wonder how they treat their burns?" He approached some of the locals, and they showed him the only treatment that worked to heal this particular kind of burn in that climate. The remedy was put into the Army's medical texts, and as far as I know, it's still there.

Speaking of Asian medicine, MRI studies have also shown activity changes in areas of the brain indicating a reduction in pain corresponding to the relief claimed by the patients.

Studies have been done that show one of the main ingredients in Yunnan Baiyao, Notoginseng, is indeed an efficacious hemostatic agent. I would be reluctant to dismiss the substance out of hand as hogwash or quackery.
My point was, I have an ancient chinese wonder herb...and I have USGI issued quik-clot. Which should I take, considering I trained with quik-clot, I get issued quik-clot, and quik-clot comes on a gauze? Not a tough choice, if you're talking about a trauma kit.

Lastly (this goes with the quicklot vs ACWQ) triage. It sounds like a dick move, but do the msot good for the most people. 3 living, breathing crippled people are better than 1 walking, talkign person and two dead people.
I'm by no means suggesting that anyone throw away their quick-clot and use yunnan baiyao instead. My experience with the stuff goes back several decades and it works well. A bottle of it is about the size of half a chapstick and easy to always have with you. The Vietcong were carrying Yunnan baiyao in the 60's and effectively using it to prevent death from wounds that our guys were bleeding out from 40 years before the invention of quik-clot.
Shumway's Law: Bleeding will always stop on its own eventually

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Re: Realistic Medical Kit

Post by Gyrfalcon » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:28 pm

Doc Torr wrote:
My point was, I have an ancient chinese wonder herb...and I have USGI issued quik-clot. Which should I take, considering I trained with quik-clot, I get issued quik-clot, and quik-clot comes on a gauze? Not a tough choice, if you're talking about a trauma kit.

Lastly (this goes with the quicklot vs ACWQ) triage. It sounds like a dick move, but do the msot good for the most people. 3 living, breathing crippled people are better than 1 walking, talkign person and two dead people.
What FourWay said. Nobody's suggesting that you to deep-six the QC. If, however, you had any interest whatsoever in stopping internal bleeding, (something that QC can't accomplish) it is not wholly inadvisable to consider complementing the QC with Baiyao.

Then after you're done treating with QC, a doctor can use an antiquated cautery to stop any persistent bleeders, use the ancient Roman wonder treatment, skin staples, to close the wound, remove necrotic tissue with archaic maggots, and restore circulation with miracle leeches. And perhaps use the ancient Middle-Eastern treatment of honey to help heal the bedsores the patient develops while recuperating.

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Re: Realistic Medical Kit

Post by Diomedes » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:16 pm

Excellent topic! I have my own aid bag, but I never put much thought to dealing with a mass-casualty scenario; the bag I maintain is strictly for incidents with few patients, such as coming across a motor vehicle collision on a rural road. I'm a paramedic student (finishing up my last semester) and Army CLS- soon-to-be Medic. I've studied into this topic, and my reference for this topic is Paramedic Care: Principles and Practice (3rd Ed.) Volume 5: Special Considerations/Operations.

Mass Casualty Incidents are described as incidents that generate large numbers of patients that often makes traditional EMS response ineffective because of special circumstances surrounding the event. They have the power to quickly overwhelm EMS services, which makes volunteers like us invaluable in managing them. The amount and quality of assistance we provide, though, is dependent on the education and training we receive. And having said all that, I can now describe a good MCI Bag.

First and foremost: safety. Remember that in the MCI, something happened that made a lot of people into patients. If you don't want to join them, you would do well to wear proper protective equipment and only entering a scene when it is safe. Remember: the most important person to keep alive is you. Basic safety items include a helmet, protective eyewear, a respirator, puncture-resistant leather gloves (not heavy, gauntlet-style), and sturdy footwear. Because it is part of safety, body substance isolation should also be considered. Eyewear, a respirator, and rubber gloves can keep you from contracting an infectious disease.

Next: triage and treatment. I agree with DannusMaximus- resources can be used up very quickly in an MCI, especially when the patients are poorly managed. Considering this, the most important thing to do in an MCI is to sort, or triage, the patients quickly. This not only minimizes waste (such as bandaging up a dead patient), but also allows more experienced personnel to concentrate on critical patients while First-Aid level and Responders focus on caring for patients within their abilities. To do this, triage tags are very useful. But remember- only properly trained personnel should tag patients! There is a specific way to do it, and not following the algorithm can cause serious problems. During triage, only two life-threatening conditions are addressed: hemorrhage and airway. With this in mind, the majority of your aid bag should consist of dressings, tourniquets, and airway adjuncts, such as naso- or oropharyngeal airways (if you are trained to use them). Forget the fancy stuff like QuickClot- tourniquets and pressure can stop most bleeding, and they cost less, too. A tourniquet can be made out of a cravat, a strong piece of wood or metal, and a piece of tape (to secure the windlass). For hemorrhage control, I would suggest Kerlix/gauze, cravats, and dressings. Israeli bandages are useful and relatively cheap, but not absolutely necessary. But my favorite piece of first-aid kit is the cravat. They are very cheap, and you can use them for anything, from pressure dressings and tourniquets to splints and slings. A flashlight and trauma shears would be helpful, too. Hopefully this will help you with your kit.

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Re: Realistic Medical Kit

Post by jenks » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:21 pm

Great topic and some great responses.

I'm also on the West coast on an island with approx 400 residents. I've thought about what happens when the quake comes and the bridge falls.

I've thought about treating this scenario as an MCI as well. Although I have the training and licenses to run IVs and deliver meds and advanced airway magic, I can't realistically see any of those things being of that much use, post event. If there is someone that needs me to drop a King down their throat, I would guess that there would be four major bleeds that could be saved with dressings and direct pressure. Where do you put your effort? There is some really good info out there on MCIs and triage.

I think post event like this, it really comes down to triage and basics. Do the best you can for the most you can.

AB pads, gauze,triangulars, crepe and lots of it. I have a Rubbermaid bin set aside that gets a hand full of 4Xs or roller gauze or whatever dropped in it at the end of every shift.

Looking forward to responses...

(ok, now i've finally posted after lurking for years, i have to go introduce myself....)

jenks

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Re: Realistic Medical Kit

Post by daine.scott » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 am

You can create a first aid kit from scratch, or you can purchase a preassembled one online. I would check out various online medical supply stores - especially Meridian Health Store - to see if they have what you are looking for. Good luck creating the perfect kit for your needs!

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Re: Realistic Medical Kit

Post by hawk55732 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:04 am

Gyrfalcon wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:
Kommander wrote:So it's like quick clot then.
It's ancient Chinese quik-clot! Ancient wonder chinese quikclot! Yeah, I'll stick with QC myself.
While it is good to be cautious about many things that China exports, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this concoction out of hand. It would be unscientific to do so. We might not have a smallpox vaccine if it weren't for Dr. Edward Jenner being humble enough to listen to a milkmaid who said she wasn't worried about getting smallpox because she'd already had cowpox.

And I personally knew a man who was an Army physician during the Korean War, who saw many troops getting terrible burns that wouldn't heal. These burns were caused by stoves and miniature heaters, some of local manufacture. In that climate and at that altitude, the wounds simply wouldn't heal with the across-the-board superior Western medicine. So this doctor, instead of scorning the locals, said to himself, "These people have been living with these stoves for years. They must get burned, too. I wonder how they treat their burns?" He approached some of the locals, and they showed him the only treatment that worked to heal this particular kind of burn in that climate. The remedy was put into the Army's medical texts, and as far as I know, it's still there.
Speaking of Asian medicine, MRI studies have also shown activity changes in areas of the brain indicating a reduction in pain corresponding to the relief claimed by the patients.

Studies have been done that show one of the main ingredients in Yunnan Baiyao, Notoginseng, is indeed an efficacious hemostatic agent. I would be reluctant to dismiss the substance out of hand as hogwash or quackery.
Umm, what did they use to heal the burns?

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