Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinions?

Discussions of the best (or worst) equipment to have on hand for use in the event of an injury during an emergency.

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CitizenZ
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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by CitizenZ » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:44 pm

Lol. I did actually read that term repeatedly in the back ground for this thread. In my case it meant specifically in and out of consciousness. When he was conscious he had. "AMS". ;)
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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by angelofwar » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:42 pm

I go with the "multiple kit" approach. I have a "trauma center" at the house, with plenty of gauze, ace's, tape, cold packs, etc., for a larger centralized disaster (i.e. a tornado rips throguh the hood). I keep 2 decent kits in the vehicle, one for vehicle accidents, and one for bug-out purposes. Also, nearly every main pack I own has a decent first aid kit to treat 3-4 people with serious bleeding injuries.

The specialty gear stays in either my vehicle bob, EDC pack, or home kit. This includes SAM splints, blood pressure monitor, thermometers, suture kits, skin staples, tourniquet, etc.

I would go with multiple kits spread out, as opposed to one over packed kit, and a smaller one for yourself. Have four or 5 medium sized kits spread around, and there's a good chance you'll have two of them in place when needed, if not more.
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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by CitizenZ » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:36 am

I frequently have nothing but my day pack. Many miles from home or my car.

This kit isn't very big. It's not much bigger than what I've been carrying every day for several years.
"Victory awaits him who has everything in order, luck people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck"- The South Pole, Roald Amundsen - 1912

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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by VXMerlinXV » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:26 pm

Quick question, what do you do that your job takes you miles from your car each day?
My posts are my opinion, and do not reflect the standing or policy of any group I may be associated with. Nothing typed here should be considered medical advice, or permission from myself or any governing body to perform medical intervention. If this is a medical emergency, please get off your computer and dial the appropriate local response number.

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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by CitizenZ » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:34 pm

I frequently have to use public transportation to avoid the $28 parking fee or travel by foot. Some times it's not optional. Imagine being regularly in various downtown locations; trapped between a stadium letting out, a concert about to start, a festival blocking one end of town, the never ending construction projects blocking the other and surrounded by normal down town grid lock traffic. Thousands of people every way you look, my job is to be there. Even if my car is near by it can take a long time to get to my car and back through the crowds.
Like I said, I have been carrying a kit for years and it has gotten a lot of use. In fact I'd say that it has already maxed its abilities. Combined with my realization of how poorly equipped the local kits are has led to the needed improvements without much increase in size. I'm very likely to use some of this kit.

I'm taking the idea of the individual blow out kits stripping them down, adding more PPE, a CPR mask, rehydration and some basic tools. IMO, this turns the blow out kit into a better rounded kit geared toward civilian life. This is exactly the gear that is either missing or in very limited quantity, and quality, in the local FAK mounted on the wall of major public facilities. Completely absent on most of my other job sites.

This kit is similar (I'm going to copy some of it for a MKII version of this kit) but I've omitted the decompression needle, added more PPE (I am required to have eye shields anyway), CPR mask, rehydration and a few tools.

NAR Maritime Assault Kit

http://www.rescue-essentials.com/nar-ma ... sault-kit/
"Victory awaits him who has everything in order, luck people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck"- The South Pole, Roald Amundsen - 1912

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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by CitizenZ » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:17 pm

If I build a mkii version of this kit I will change:

Better quality gloves
A CAT tourniquet
Hyfin seals
More compact Hemostatic
WHO rehydration packs
Better bag, Rip away EMT
Lighter headlamp
Durmacil tape
Mini sharpie
Rescue hook
Additional Zpak gauze if space permits
Chewable aspirin
Last edited by CitizenZ on Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Victory awaits him who has everything in order, luck people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck"- The South Pole, Roald Amundsen - 1912

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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by duodecima » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:57 pm

I third (fourth? fifth?) the notion of more gloves as above. They weigh almost nothing too. Not just for changing between patients, or if you don't want to get yuck in your kit whilst pulling out another piece of equipment, but also because you may need to press other people around you into service and you should assume they will refuse to get much yuck on their hands.

Also - looking at this kit and some of your comments, I think you're intending to be prepared for more than just an hour before EMS arrives (which was a timeframe mentioned in your first post.) Because there's precious few situations where you're going to move to proctoclysis in that first hour. Nor would putting in a foley be that urgent for most patients. I'm not familiar with the Coast Guard's certifications, but most short first aid courses don't cover putting in foleys, so if it's not something you've actually been taught (and taught the contraindications for!) I would suggest there's better use for that space/weight even if it's not very much space/weight. It might make sense for what angelofwar calls the "specialty" kit that lives in a car or at home.
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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by CitizenZ » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:28 pm

I'm up to six pairs of gloves now. Which I think makes sense, if it could take 6 people to move a large adult.

The Murphy Drip is a little out of the box, unconventional but I think more likely to be useful than a decompression needle I see in many kits. Which is an order of magnitude more dangerous? I listed the contradictions in the other thread.
In the two cases of severe dehydration and shock I mentioned, if professional help had been delayed more than an hour would have been very serious. Possibly life threatening. I can see many other situations that this could be useful.
If it's me or my spouse, absolutely. You, or a stranger... maybe not.
My time span is to include everything from help is almost here, some delay, to help may not be coming today and tomorrow doesn't look good either. I have been through all of those and I'd like to be better prepared.

The next time a building falls in front of me, hurricane flattens my AO or Al-quida attacks my town I'd rather have this with me than at home.

Eta... I already have other kits in my cars, home. Including gear I'm not going to carry, regardless of space weight, like a blood pressure cuff, stethoscope, etc. This is about a daily carry, never without kit.
I carry my office/ tools/ FAK every day already.
"Victory awaits him who has everything in order, luck people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck"- The South Pole, Roald Amundsen - 1912

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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by duodecima » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:08 pm

CitizenZ wrote: The Murphy Drip is a little out of the box, unconventional but I think more likely to be useful than a decompression needle I see in many kits.
I'm in agreement with you that they're not really needed in a lot of kits. But just because I can't ever resist playing devil's advocate - the condition you treat with it can (and frequently does) absolutely kill in an hour before EMS gets there, so IF somebody has training, and is confident that they would accurately recognize a tension pneumothorax, this would be a lifesaving intervention in that first hour, whereas a murphy drip/proctoclysis would be much less likely to be needed so acutely.

I'm sure you know this, but it's not going to work well in trauma, never mind potenial contraindications - if some one is hypovolemic and shocky, their gut is one of the places that's not going to be getting as much blood flow, so it's not going to be a very effective route to get fluids in quickly.
I listed the contradictions in the other thread.
For procotclysis, yes (and I presume you've got them taped to the kit if you don't have them memorized.) But I was actually thinking of the contraindications to using a foley catheter for its intended urinary purpose, since you mentioned that all the elements of the murphy kit had other uses. Altho perhaps that wasn't the other use you were thinking of, in which case, never mind and what were you thinking to use it for? (That's not a loaded question, I have personally used them for other purposes, one of which was urgent/emergent.)
My time span is to include everything from help is almost here, some delay, to help may not be coming today and tomorrow doesn't look good either. I have been through all of those and I'd like to be better prepared.
Ah, I had missed the the part of the later post where you had mentioned a more extended timeframe. I think you've got a good sense of where this belongs, since you also said it would be the first thing to go if you didn't have room. I'm not trying to pick on proctoclysis, I think it's a good out-of-the-box option if you're looking at a longer time frame.
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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by prepper7 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:41 am

zero11010 wrote:Quick question:
What kind of medical training do you have?

I've seen a lot of people have a desire to carry a robust first aid kit but without the knowledge to use the contents.

Quick answer:
CitizenZ wrote:The main purpose of this kit is to provide immediate first aid in case I happen to be on the scene of a single person in medical distress or if there is more than one person then be able to assist and have additional supplies. I'm thinking about an earthquake, collapse or Mumbai style attack.
CitizenZ wrote:
IANMCDEVITT wrote:put more gloves in the kit
Why more gloves? I only need one and the other is a spare.
If you want to be prepared for a larger scale event, or even responding to a single car crash with multiple people cut up by glass .... how many people are you going to treat while wearing the same pair of gloves? They don't exactly weigh a lot or take up a lot of space. It's nice that the gloves offer a barrier between you and bodily fluids, but reusing gloves isn't sanitary for the people in distress.

"Hey, I'll help you get the glass out of your forearm. No problem. Think the last guy I helped has any infectious blood borne diseases? I hope not, too!"
Given your stated main purpose is to provide aid [to others] I agree with the other posters on the need for more gloves.
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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by CitizenZ » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:10 pm

This isn't to provide aid for everyone. It's an individual kit. To help me, my spouse or at least one serious/ common FA need. By doing so gives me significant tools to respond to an event. Normal occurrence to be sure I have needed supplies or exceptional circumstances when we need all the help we can get. I can help at least one of the injured. Which might be me.
Just a coworker having a heart attack to an event that will be in the history books.
"Victory awaits him who has everything in order, luck people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck"- The South Pole, Roald Amundsen - 1912

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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by CitizenZ » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:21 pm

I think I found the right bag for it. 6" x 4" x 2". I can attach the tourniquet and shears to the outside.

http://www.rescue-essentials.com/rip-aw ... -od-green/
"Victory awaits him who has everything in order, luck people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck"- The South Pole, Roald Amundsen - 1912

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Re: Rethinking my IFAK to include disaster response. Opinio

Post by CitizenZ » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:22 pm

duodecima wrote:
CitizenZ wrote: The Murphy Drip is a little out of the box, unconventional but I think more likely to be useful than a decompression needle I see in many kits.
I'm in agreement with you that they're not really needed in a lot of kits. But just because I can't ever resist playing devil's advocate - the condition you treat with it can (and frequently does) absolutely kill in an hour before EMS gets there, so IF somebody has training, and is confident that they would accurately recognize a tension pneumothorax, this would be a lifesaving intervention in that first hour, whereas a murphy drip/proctoclysis would be much less likely to be needed so acutely.

I'm sure you know this, but it's not going to work well in trauma, never mind potenial contraindications - if some one is hypovolemic and shocky, their gut is one of the places that's not going to be getting as much blood flow, so it's not going to be a very effective route to get fluids in quickly.
I listed the contradictions in the other thread.
For procotclysis, yes (and I presume you've got them taped to the kit if you don't have them memorized.) But I was actually thinking of the contraindications to using a foley catheter for its intended urinary purpose, since you mentioned that all the elements of the murphy kit had other uses. Altho perhaps that wasn't the other use you were thinking of, in which case, never mind and what were you thinking to use it for? (That's not a loaded question, I have personally used them for other purposes, one of which was urgent/emergent.)
The point is to have options for emergency hydration. A serious, common and preventable cause of death.
On this board and others EMTs have commented that a Foley is a useful tool for many purposes, such as wound drainage, constrictor, etc.
I have no understanding of how or why they are used in the bladder. I read about it, but I'm not using it for that. Although I do know people who have a tube and a bag attached to them for various reasons. If he needs a emergency replacement, I could offer it, but I have zero interest in playing doctor. My only fantasies of playing doctor involve several cute girls, nurses uniforms made from paper and edible oils.

My CG training did include starting an IV.
My time span is to include everything from help is almost here, some delay, to help may not be coming today and tomorrow doesn't look good either. I have been through all of those and I'd like to be better prepared.
Ah, I had missed the the part of the later post where you had mentioned a more extended timeframe. I think you've got a good sense of where this belongs, since you also said it would be the first thing to go if you didn't have room. I'm not trying to pick on proctoclysis, I think it's a good out-of-the-box option if you're looking at a longer time frame.
As I feared the MD derailed this thread. What I hoped we'd discuss is the improved PPE and addition of a CPR mask and hydration. (or why they should be in all kits) Choice of components and how to make it smaller, lighter or better.
Still this has been useful to me (I've made lots of changes and ideas for the next version). I hope it has been useful to others.
"Victory awaits him who has everything in order, luck people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck"- The South Pole, Roald Amundsen - 1912

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