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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:34 am 
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So if your like me, you hate going to the doctor when you know you simply need a short or mid run of antibiotics. In my case, I'm nursing what feels like a bout of pneumonia, something I experienced a few years ago for the first time, and it's pretty clear what I need. SO, I awoke today planning on calling the doc, waiting 5 hours in a waiting room, paying a hundred bucks or more, and driving to the pharmacy to fill the script, only to spend more cash, and feel like crap the entire time. Then I remembered I had read that you can obtain antibiotics online from places like Canada with no prescription, and have them delivered right to your door. The only problem is, there are tons of vendors out there on the web. Some probably trustworthy, others probably a scam. I wanted to reach out to everyone here and see if anyone has experience ordering similar products from an online vendor, and if some trusted sites might be posted for the rest of us.

I'm not one to abuse antibiotics at all, and might average 1 course of them every year or 2 years, but in my search to find something for the immediate, I got to thinking about the future as well. Antibiotics have been a particular favorite for preppers for some time, due to the unknown and the fact that if SHTF there may be no doctors or pharmacies open to distribute needed drugs to the masses.

I've also read that many people are choosing aquatic type antibiotics because in many cases they are run on the same line next to human consumable versions and are simply labeled differently, any truth to that? I suppose if one could trace the physical pill to a manufacturer it could play out in our favor. I still maintain that if it says not for humans, I'm probably not going to try it.

I am primarily interested in stocking Azithromycin which is probably one of the most common for bacterial infections, something we just seem to contract most frequently. I would like it not only in pill format for the adults, but a suspension powder for the children if ever needed.

This is something that would have to be refreshed every 2 years or so due to it's expiration, but it would just be another item on the list of things to replace.

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:51 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:08 am 
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I have, but didn't notice any vendors, unless I just missed them.

I'm running some different search criteria now.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:22 am 
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He meant more along the lines of http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=92560&hilit=+fish+antibiotics and http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=95447&hilit=+fish+antibiotics

Or to summarize: no. If you knew how to properly use the stuff, you'd know where to buy it. You mentioned pneumonia: which antibiotic would you use? Are you sure it would be effective? What's causing the pneumonia? If you don't know which biotic is causing it, then how will you know which anti-biotic to use? You know antibiotics don't work on viruses, right? And the symptoms are the same for viral and bacterial pneumonia. How do you know it's pneumonia if you haven't been to a doctor? WebMD is about as reliable for self diagnosis as the 19yr old with a Mosin is for advice on distance match shooting.

Same goes for "PAW" use. The stuff has a short shelf life, and unlike The Walking Dead you can't just cram doxycycline (I get two points for spelling that without google!) or amoxicillin (had to google that spelling) down a GSW's throat and then wait for the undiagnosed infection to go away.

The TL:DR is that trying to buy antibiotics sold for animals to self-medicate is a bad idea.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:15 am 
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pillsm.com


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:45 am 
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Doctoor, thanks for the posts. I ran across several and am still researching the topic.

To answer your questions, I really don't know if my case is viral or bacterial, I'm only going on what my past experiences with respiratory related issues end up being. Every single time it's a Z-pac 5 day treatment with 500mg the first day, 250 each other, and a bottle of codeine cough syrup which i usually don't even use. It may be my farm doctor that just sticks to what works, or maybe he doesn't even test, but I've never been prescribed anything other then Azithromycin for similar issues. I'm also experiencing some issues with what I could only describe could be a minor ear infection to boot, something Azithromycin is also prescribed for.

I don't begin to suggest I know or have all the facts, but we do have various medical and field medicine journals i could eventually come to a semi close conclusion with in a time of extreme need, hence the reason for reserving some antibiotics for an emergency purpose.

I am iffy on the animal stuff as well, but I've just today read numerous accounts of people doing similar research, and ending up concluding that if tracked correctly, the animal stuff is 99.9% close to the human pharmaceutical.

Just looking for further input, although I completely support your point.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:32 am 
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http://www.shtfantibiotics.com/

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:42 am 
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Alright Stu, good response. DF is right though, first part about even thinking about giving any meds w/o supervision of a health care provider is to read as much as you can about the meds...........(get a book)......Next, try to find a RN or PA in the neighborhood who's friendly, maybe a family member that is a health care provider?...confer with them, pick their brains. look for diffrent sources of info. Search here as this subject comes up every few weeks or so it seems.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:45 am 
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That site makes me a little nervous.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:42 pm 
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I think these talks eventually digress to the point that by directly asking where to buy "Fish" antibiotics for human consumption the poster is actually asking someone to help them break the law :D

My guess is this thread is not far from being locked, though a careful search of this board and a little google detective work will lead the poster to the answers he is looking for.

Of course IF someone were looking for advice on keeping their fish healthy in the PAW we could talk about that till we turned blue at the gills...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:08 pm 
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I would just like to announce that azithromycin is a macrolide, and it therefore inhibits protein synthesis in bacteria. I'd also like to point out that it is a semi-synthetic drug, which is to say that it is derived from a bacteria-produced compound (in this case, erythromycin), and is then synthetically modified to increase its effectiveness against whatever. It is a broad-spectrum antibiotic, with effectiveness against Gram+ and Gram- bacteria.

This concludes all the information I've stuffed into my head for my microbiology test tomorrow. Not included in that is even the faintest idea of when to use it and when to not use it. What if it isn't pneumonia and is in fact lung cancer? Or a fungal infection? Or some other underlying condition that's causing you to get pneumonia on a semi-regular basis? Go to the damn doctor. Pick up a bunch of microbiology and infectious disease textbooks later, if you want to go all cowboy in the PAW, but for now, consider that in the middle of a problem is usually not the best time to just be starting to think about how to solve it, if other options exist.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:06 pm 
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Antibiotic applications, and more, are touched on in Doctors for Disaster Preparedness,
A BASIC MEDICAL KIT FOR A 10-20 PERSON SHELTER, compiled by Jane M. Orient, MD, with assistance from many others at:
http://www.ddponline.org/medkit.htm


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Here is a short how to on Gram Staining... You know... Gram Positive and Gram Negative Bacteria

I remember seeing an in depth guide on one site or another but this will give you a general idea.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2098704_do-gram-stain.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Gram-Stain

If someone wanted to see which antibiotic may be effective against a particular bacteria ( This topic is a work in progress for me).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nutrient-Agar-LB-Plate-with-Antibiotics-Kit-for-Science-Fair-Project-Petri-Dish-/141045898482?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d6fd9cf2

I'm still working on how to make an antibiotic test disk to use in the Agar plate but my thought is that it could be as simple as applying a little of each antibiotic you have to the plate and observing the inhibited growth.

To much? I really need to find another hobby... :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:32 pm 
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For the record, I'm in an undergrad microbio class right now and am learning all this, so I totally bow down to the no doubt superior knowledge of literally anyone else.

They make prepared filter papers soaked in known amounts of various antibiotics. It's sort of a... process, you know? Like, first you have to culture your germ. Does it even grow on standard TSA media? Maybe it needs blood-enriched media. Maybe it needs a selective medium to inhibit growth of competitors. Whatever you have, you need to cook up the agar under sterile conditions and plate it aseptically. Then you swab whatever you hope might be carrying the germ and see if you can grow something. I mean, maybe it's a respiratory thing and you only swabbed their skin, or whatever. Or maybe they have TB or leprosy, which grow super slowly, and are therefore hard to find if you aren't looking for them, because it'll look like nothing grew but two weeks later you've got a colony. Or, whoops, it's an obligate anaerobe and you left your glovebox in your other pants (or, ok, grow them up in broth cultures, but still).

So now you're growing whatever, only now you've got a really diverse group of bacteria, the vast majority of which are normal, non-pathogenic flora. So you have to plate out a bunch of differential media and try and distinguish what your pathogen is- does it break down casein, or lactose, or does it hemolyze blood, and to what degree? Etc. Having done that, you isolate a pure colony and again, aseptically streak out a plate of your offending bacteria and do a Kirby-Bauer test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar_diffusion_test on it (which is old school as hell, but we'll assume it's the PAW and you don't have access to fancy new stuff). By the way, your test has to match the standardized everything, so you need the right concentration of bacteria to grow, the right medium to grow them in, the right depth of agar in your dish... and so forth. Also you need consistent growth conditions and whatnot, so hopefully you packed an incubator in your BOB.

Having done all that, you plate out your antibiotics and then set about painstakingly measuring your zones of inhibition around the filter paper. If you've done it right, you now know what all your bacteria is sensitive to. But whoops, it took a few days to get this far, and meanwhile the sick person has gotten a lot worse. Oh yeah, and you've just accidentally cultured up a shitton of anthrax and didn't use proper biosafety procedures because your biohood needs to be serviced but the damn manufacturer won't replace the parts because zombies ate all the technicians, so now you're sick too. :cry:

None of it is necessarily rocket science, but a lot of it would be pretty hard to manage in the PAW, without a previously stocked and prepared laboratory. I'm not saying it can't be done, and microbiology can be fun to learn about and know how to, you know, do, but there's a lot of supplies and energy that go into doing it with a purpose beyond just screwing around. In my opinion, anyway, at least. But I could be, and probably am, completely wrong about everything.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:09 pm 
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jkr wrote:
http://www.shtfantibiotics.com/


They seem to be selling the same stuff you can get at any other place, but for higher prices.

For example the same 100ct 500mg fish Mox is $43 on shtf site but on other sites for $29

OK so the shtf site says "We go the Extra Mile to keep all of your information private and discreet by using discreet packaging." but does that really cost so much more? And does it really matter, it is not porn or weapons. It is just fish meds. LOL

I would not buy from these guys who seem to just be profiting off unwitting preppers. If you want to go with pet meds, just buy them from a reputable pet med site not a prepper site.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:31 pm 
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ineffableone Thanks for the heads up. I didn't realize they were so over priced.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Here is a short article on expiration dates for drugs. It doesn't go into many specifics, but should cause you to search out what the real expiration date is for any drug you might be having around for awhile.

http://www.terrierman.com/antibiotics-WSJ.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:05 pm 
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I've used these guys with success:
http://www.calvetsupply.com/category/Oral_Antibiotics


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Stumasters wrote:
Doctoor, thanks for the posts. I ran across several and am still researching the topic.

To answer your questions, I really don't know if my case is viral or bacterial, I'm only going on what my past experiences with respiratory related issues end up being. Every single time it's a Z-pac 5 day treatment with 500mg the first day, 250 each other, and a bottle of codeine cough syrup which i usually don't even use. It may be my farm doctor that just sticks to what works, or maybe he doesn't even test, but I've never been prescribed anything other then Azithromycin for similar issues. I'm also experiencing some issues with what I could only describe could be a minor ear infection to boot, something Azithromycin is also prescribed for.

I don't begin to suggest I know or have all the facts, but we do have various medical and field medicine journals i could eventually come to a semi close conclusion with in a time of extreme need, hence the reason for reserving some antibiotics for an emergency purpose.

I am iffy on the animal stuff as well, but I've just today read numerous accounts of people doing similar research, and ending up concluding that if tracked correctly, the animal stuff is 99.9% close to the human pharmaceutical.

Just looking for further input, although I completely support your point.



LOL...no offense but seriously just go to your doctor. You mention that you regularly take a course of antibiotics once a year, and you don't even care if this is a bacterial, or viral (which antibiotics will not help) infection. Now you want to avoid seeing a doctor and you are buying shady antibiotics from shady online sources.

I had a friend who had chronic colds and respiratory issues like you. Treated himself with over-the-counter junk and "borrowed" antibiotics for years. Finally it got bad, when he coughed up a little blood and his wife insisted he go to see a doctor. At first it looked like a bad case of pneumonia, and the doc ordered some blood test and x-rays. Turns out he Stage 4 Lung cancer. He died about a year after being diagnosed.

He died at 49, wife and two teenage kids. He smoked when he was young but quit smoking when he was 30. He was a blue collar high energy guy, did charity 5K runs and other community stuff. He worked, played, and "did life" so much that he assumed he was getting sick because he was running around so much and not eating right and resting. He looked decent and possibly that he was going to beat it, but the last 4 months he took a hard turn and 1 month before he was bed ridden and at home on hospice. Unfortunately, towards the end he suffered. Could he have survived if he was diagnosed sooner? Who Knows.

Look, I have no problems with people getting fish antibiotics from shady online sources for prepping for a SHTF event, but if you are truly sick, especially chronically sick, its a good idea to get checked out by a doctor.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:29 pm 
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A friend of mine just died last week from stage 4 lung cancer. He had never smoked and ignored the cough.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:53 am 
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All those telling OP to see a Dr seem to forget he wrote this;
"due to the unknown and the fact that if SHTF there may be no doctors or pharmacies open to distribute needed drugs to the masses. "

Stocking up on meds is no different then storing ammo & food---they may be unavailable later


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:31 am 
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Stocking up on meds is no different then storing ammo and food ?!?....Jesus dude, please stay in your own lane and don't comment if the only thing you have to say is assinine..


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:38 am 
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gundogs wrote:
All those telling OP to see a Dr seem to forget he wrote this;
"due to the unknown and the fact that if SHTF there may be no doctors or pharmacies open to distribute needed drugs to the masses. "

Stocking up on meds is no different then storing ammo & food---they may be unavailable later


Well, my doc gave me 60 days worth of oral antibiotics free in sample Prevpacs (Lansoprazole - an acid reducer -, Amoxicillin, and Clarithromycin) when I asked. It didn't cost me a dime, they were legally prescribed, are approved for human use, and the AB doses in those packs is 500mg each. Your doctor can also tell you about specific issues YOU may have with specific meds instead of relying on a layman's Google session.

If you want antibiotics you can rely on with a decent lecture on their use, ask your doctor for samples. Most times you'll get them free. Stock up before it gets to where there are no doctors or pharmacies.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:13 pm 
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DarkAxel wrote:
gundogs wrote:
All those telling OP to see a Dr seem to forget he wrote this;
"due to the unknown and the fact that if SHTF there may be no doctors or pharmacies open to distribute needed drugs to the masses. "

Stocking up on meds is no different then storing ammo & food---they may be unavailable later


Well, my doc gave me 60 days worth of oral antibiotics free in sample Prevpacs (Lansoprazole - an acid reducer -, Amoxicillin, and Clarithromycin) when I asked. It didn't cost me a dime, they were legally prescribed, are approved for human use, and the AB doses in those packs is 500mg each. Your doctor can also tell you about specific issues YOU may have with specific meds instead of relying on a layman's Google session.

If you want antibiotics you can rely on with a decent lecture on their use, ask your doctor for samples. Most times you'll get them free. Stock up before it gets to where there are no doctors or pharmacies.


Odd that he would give you prescrption antibiotics when no symptoms were present to warrant their use.


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