Baofeng Radios.

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taipan821
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Baofeng Radios.

Post by taipan821 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:42 pm

Hello all.

It's been a while since I was last looking for a cheap vhf/uhf handheld. last time I looked there was the baofeng UV-5R. Now there are so many options. UV-5R, UV-5RB, RC, RD GT-3, GT-5

so, from the baofeng line, which radio would be the best bang for the buck? Does the humble UV-5R still reign supreme, or has it been knocked off its perch?
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by woodsghost » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:35 pm

I think you need to get a radio from a reputable dealer and just call it good. There are a bunch of models and upgrades. A bunch of my buddies have different versions of the Baofeng. I think I have a simple UV-5R. Mine does not accept tones when I program into channel memory, but it does keep frequency and offset. So there are some things which are pretty ridiculous. I understand why some people say to buy a better radio. But I"m ok with the radio. I can receive fairly well and broadcast transmit fairly well. I am becoming more aware of it's limitations in comparison to my Yeasu 2980R, even when both are on "5w." The receive ability of the Yeasu is much better on the same antennas and the transmit is better on the Yeasu on 5w with the same antennas.

All this to say I'd think about getting the UV-8 or whatever it is called. A 8w version I think would be better, but in the US, about $40 more. I think I paid $25 for my radio and then $20 for the extended battery and $20 for a 1/4 wave antenna, so $65+ some shipping. I think it was worth that, but I really would never consider the radio without the extra battery and better antenna. I have been in plenty of situations where the 5w was not quite enough to get the job done, so I think an antenna better than the one I bought and maybe some extra wattage would be very beneficial. Also, my buddy with the 8w version has been able to get into repeaters I was completely unable to get into with the 5w version. That may be partly because of terrain, but I do think those extra few watts really make a difference.

As far as recommendations on firmware or any of that, I don't bother with those details. I don't trust the units to be consistent enough between batches for that info to matter. I could be wrong.

There was a "waterproof" Baofeng 5w. Tests indicated it was not as waterproof as they claimed, and I don't see anyone selling that unit anymore. I know Wouxon makes a US $100 radio that people have found to be much more durable than the Baofengs, if that interests you. But I think plenty of people like the Baofeng as a cheap beater with the understanding it has a shelf life and WILL reach the end of that shelf life well before you reach the end of yours.


I just LOVE the run time with the 3800 mA battery! I really feel confident with it's run time. I use it all the time as an FM radio. I do talk occasionally, but really prefer my Yeasu for anything past maybe 8km. I have got 30-35km with a tiger tail and good location. I can hit some repeaters 16km out, but I need an acceptable location.

Just my US $.02. I don't regret buying my Baofeng. I wish I had better, but I don't have the cash and I think I can make this work in a bug out or other disaster scenario. But when I can I"ll upgrade. And I seriously think my radio's limit is the sensitivity of it's receiver. My Yeasu is not the best but it pulls in much weaker signals with the same antennas. I have tried a well known ladder line antenna, a yagi, and a 1/4 wave mounted on a mag mount (not grounded though), with both radios.


EDIT:

Not only do the Chinese make cheap knockoffs of foreign goods, but they make cheap knockoffs of Chinese goods too. At this point I will only buy Baofeng radios and accessories from reputable, established dealers. It would be nice to pay $7 for a battery, but I"ll spring the extra and pay $15-$20 for something I know will actually work, even if it is not quite Japanese or Korean or American quality.

This is aimed more at those preppers interested in Baofengs and less at you directly, taipan21.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by taipan821 » Tue May 01, 2018 6:51 am

woodsghost wrote: Not only do the Chinese make cheap knockoffs of foreign goods, but they make cheap knockoffs of Chinese goods too. At this point I will only buy Baofeng radios and accessories from reputable, established dealers. It would be nice to pay $7 for a battery, but I"ll spring the extra and pay $15-$20 for something I know will actually work, even if it is not quite Japanese or Korean or American quality.

This is aimed more at those preppers interested in Baofengs and less at you directly, taipan21.
First thing woodghost, that was an excellent reply. I'll see about rewording the original post to reflect this as a more general "My first Baofeng Radio" topic.

Follow up question for you woodghost, any reputable, established dealers you would recommend, a quick google search of UV-5R brings up too many sellers to count.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by woodsghost » Tue May 01, 2018 7:17 am

taipan821 wrote:
woodsghost wrote: Not only do the Chinese make cheap knockoffs of foreign goods, but they make cheap knockoffs of Chinese goods too. At this point I will only buy Baofeng radios and accessories from reputable, established dealers. It would be nice to pay $7 for a battery, but I"ll spring the extra and pay $15-$20 for something I know will actually work, even if it is not quite Japanese or Korean or American quality.

This is aimed more at those preppers interested in Baofengs and less at you directly, taipan21.
First thing woodghost, that was an excellent reply. I'll see about rewording the original post to reflect this as a more general "My first Baofeng Radio" topic.

Follow up question for you woodghost, any reputable, established dealers you would recommend, a quick google search of UV-5R brings up too many sellers to count.
Great question! I'm cautious because I don't know that Australia has the same dealers that America has.

In the US, we have BaoFeng Tech.

https://baofengtech.com/baofeng-radio

We have Buy Two-Way Radios.

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/

They also host articles for using the Baofeng series of radios, and I really appreciate their support.


My rule of thumb is if a place is larger and you can find them and get a return if the product is defective, then it is probably worth buying from them. If they carry a wide range of Baofeng products and they look like they have a connection to the actual factory then I"m much more comfortable.

Finally, if the price seems too good to be true, I"m not interested. People in the UK commonly talk about antennas for $3 (pounds) on Ebay. They talk about how many of those products are knockoffs, but a few people have found the knockoffs to work better than the real deal. Most find the knockoffs suck. My buddy bought a programming cable which was a fake and did not work at all :x So if a place is more accessible to smaller retailers (Ebay, Amazon, Alibaba), I"m not buying from them. Unless I get a really good vibe. I know there are smaller retailers who are good people. My dad is one of those. But a bigger, more established retailer gives me more confidence, especially if they seem to specialize in Chinese HTs or specifically in Baofengs.

Just my experience and what I"ve read from others.


When it comes to Chinese HTs, I think reputation counts for everything. And even with that said, Chinese QC will be more variable than Korean, Japanese, or US QC.

And to be clear, nothing makes me a special expert on all this. I'm just sharing my observations from too much reading about Baofengs and then playing with my one and my different friend's.
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*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: Baofeng Radios. TIP # 437 and 438 - DUAL WATCH FUNCTION

Post by MacWa77ace » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:33 pm

I just received my second Baofeng HT after ordering in from Amazon.

My first is a UV5RV2+ which at the time I ordered it, was the most up to date UV5R model. There were other high power Baofeng models that were later models for higher price. But for a test, $27 was where I wanted to be price wise. I got the UV-5RV2+ for $27 and got some accessories for it also such as a better antenna, speaker mic, larger battery, programming cable, mag mount mobile antenna, adaptor for the mobile antenna. Double checking not to get knock offs. The speaker mic may be a knock off but its labeled with the Baofeng logo and was only $6.

For the money I've spent I'm more than satisfied, except for the mobile antenna adaptor which I keep wearing out. I think its made in the USA too. And then I can't really get the speaker mic's audio out plug to work but all I have in the way of ear buds are 3 and 4 pin 3.5mm and I think it takes a 2 pin mono plug which I don't currently have. There are no instructions for the speaker mic.

Anyhow I just bought the BF-F9V2+ tri power [8 watts, 4 watts, 1 watt] for $42, which I believe to be the next, next gen version of the 5R to date. There are other Baofeng models but they are more of an offshoot than a descendant I think, and I wanted to have all the accessories work for both and just clone my 5R's programming straight into the BF-F9, which I was able to do that also.

The two radios look exactly alike except for the model number. The only difference is the stock antennas. The one on the F9 is a little longer and does not have the Baofeng logo debossed into it like the one on the 5R.

Image

Now for the TIPs:

437. The radios come with the DUAL WATCH FUNCTION 'off'. You have to remember to turn it on to DUAL WATCH, which is really the point of being able to do that with them.


438. The written manual for both UV5R and BF9R says that if you use the DUAL WATCH function the following features will be DISABLED:
  • REVERSE FUNCTION
  • USE OF POUND BUTTON TO SWITCH BETWEEN HIGH AND LOW POWER
  • SAVING OF DUPLEX CHANNELS
This is an error. You can do all these things while in DUAL WATCH MODE. And you can probably do it on other models but I can't confirm.

You just can't DUAL WATCH while scanning.

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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by gary83 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:07 am

I sold my UV-5R because I wasn't able to get the programming cable to work on any software.

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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by teotwaki » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:29 am

gary83 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:07 am
I sold my UV-5R because I wasn't able to get the programming cable to work on any software.
The USB drivers in your computer can be the problem
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by woodsghost » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:59 am

teotwaki wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:29 am
gary83 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:07 am
I sold my UV-5R because I wasn't able to get the programming cable to work on any software.
The USB drivers in your computer can be the problem
That is a frequent issue. Another frequent issue I have experienced is fake/knockoff cables. I don't know where gary83 bought his cable. I have learned buying from reputable places is the way to go. I listed a few I trust, above.

Also, from my experience and the stuff I have read online, it seems Chinese programming is simply not always good or consistent. If buying a Baofeng, one needs to have that understanding.
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*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by teotwaki » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:33 am

I use the free Chirp software for the cheap radios. https://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Home
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by eugene » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:42 pm

I use chirp myself as well. There can still be driver issues with win/mac. Popular USB to serial chips are often copied and the original makers try to put copy/counterfit detection in their drivers, but those can even have false positives and refuse to work even with legit chips. There are some boot from CD/DVD/USB flash Linux distros that you can download and run chirp without the win/mac driver issues.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by TacAir » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:35 pm

This will all soon be OBE as the FCC has banned the sale of these rigs.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by teotwaki » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:00 am

TacAir wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:35 pm
This will all soon be OBE as the FCC has banned the sale of these rigs.
It is actually not settled. Dozns of articles about it and the comments are interesting too

https://www.kb6nu.com/did-the-fcc-just- ... answer-no/

http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-fcc-discu ... ansceivers

So mods, don't lock this thread.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by NT2C » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:07 am

teotwaki wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:00 am
So mods, don't lock this thread.
No intentions of doing so. Like you, I'm waiting to see how it all shakes out.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by woodsghost » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:04 am

TacAir wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:35 pm
This will all soon be OBE as the FCC has banned the sale of these rigs.
Even if the FCC bans the sale of the rigs, it seems the rigs can be made to be compliant. According to one video, chirp software can be used to make existing radios compliant if the ban really does stick. So all this would continue to be relevant. I believe the problems would come up if people talked about using non-compliant radios and doing illegal activities (such as prank calling ambulances).
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by NT2C » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:34 am

woodsghost wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:04 am
TacAir wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:35 pm
This will all soon be OBE as the FCC has banned the sale of these rigs.
Even if the FCC bans the sale of the rigs, it seems the rigs can be made to be compliant. According to one video, chirp software can be used to make existing radios compliant if the ban really does stick. So all this would continue to be relevant. I believe the problems would come up if people talked about using non-compliant radios and doing illegal activities (such as prank calling ambulances).
It's going to come down to what the radios are certificated for. Programming the radio does not change the capabilities of the hardware but by the same token, with SDRs the lines have been getting blurrier every year. The day is fast approaching where certification will be more modular and where software will be certificated.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by teotwaki » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:41 am

Prices are dropping below $20 again so I may order 5 more before the supply dries up :mrgreen:
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by NT2C » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:02 pm

teotwaki wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:41 am
Prices are dropping below $20 again so I may order 5 more before the supply dries up :mrgreen:
Not a bad investment in SHTF comms capability.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by MacWa77ace » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:20 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:04 am
TacAir wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:35 pm
This will all soon be OBE as the FCC has banned the sale of these rigs.
Even if the FCC bans the sale of the rigs, it seems the rigs can be made to be compliant. According to one video, chirp software can be used to make existing radios compliant if the ban really does stick. So all this would continue to be relevant. I believe the problems would come up if people talked about using non-compliant radios and doing illegal activities (such as prank calling ambulances).
The ban. viewtopic.php?f=42&t=122064

I'm skeptical that they will be banned. First they have a label under the battery saying they are FCC compliant .

Second and third...

Yes, Baofengs can be made compliant by limiting the default frequency range supplied out of the box. Chirp Software can accomplish this easily.

The other way to accomplish this is to lock out the TRX function on the frequencies that are outside the HAM range, yet within the default ranges of the radio. This again can be done in CHIRP. If you can't transmit on an unlawful freq then it's just a receiver on those freqs.

That being said I have programmed an NOAA frequency in mine. For listening only of course.


As for people talking about doing non compliant things, the internet including YT is full of 'educational' info on how to do illegal stuff.

Calling something 'educational' on the internet is the same as saying 'just kidding' after you caught your mouth saying something insulting to someone. :mrgreen:

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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by NT2C » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:13 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:20 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:04 am
TacAir wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:35 pm
This will all soon be OBE as the FCC has banned the sale of these rigs.
Even if the FCC bans the sale of the rigs, it seems the rigs can be made to be compliant. According to one video, chirp software can be used to make existing radios compliant if the ban really does stick. So all this would continue to be relevant. I believe the problems would come up if people talked about using non-compliant radios and doing illegal activities (such as prank calling ambulances).
The ban. viewtopic.php?f=42&t=122064

I'm skeptical that they will be banned. First they have a label under the battery saying they are FCC compliant .

Second and third...

Yes, Baofengs can be made compliant by limiting the default frequency range supplied out of the box. Chirp Software can accomplish this easily.

The other way to accomplish this is to lock out the TRX function on the frequencies that are outside the HAM range, yet within the default ranges of the radio. This again can be done in CHIRP. If you can't transmit on an unlawful freq then it's just a receiver on those freqs.

That being said I have programmed an NOAA frequency in mine. For listening only of course.


As for people talking about doing non compliant things, the internet including YT is full of 'educational' info on how to do illegal stuff.

Calling something 'educational' on the internet is the same as saying 'just kidding' after you caught your mouth saying something insulting to someone. :mrgreen:
CHIRP is not capable of making permanent changes to a radio and that is what would need to be done to even get close to being "compliant". Simply programming the radio to stay within certain limits and not programming in frequencies that you aren't allowed to transmit on does not change what the radio is capable of, and that capability to transmit on frequencies which require licensing is what the FCC is targeting.
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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by MacWa77ace » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:45 am

NT2C wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:13 pm


CHIRP is not capable of making permanent changes to a radio and that is what would need to be done to even get close to being "compliant". Simply programming the radio to stay within certain limits and not programming in frequencies that you aren't allowed to transmit on does not change what the radio is capable of, and that capability to transmit on frequencies which require licensing is what the FCC is targeting.
CHIRP makes changes to a Baofeng that will let it pass a field test, making it compliant when compared to real world precedents.

There are so many precedents out there of non-permanent changes that can be made to ITEMS to make them compliant with laws and regulations, I don't know how you can make a statement like that. It's not what something is capable of that makes it illegal or non-compliant, its what it is doing NOW.

And because in the real world its usually just a field inspection that determines COMPLIANCE, for more than just radios.

Examples of items that would/could be field inspected for compliance: [just a few non permanent changes to an item to make it compliant]
  1. Add running lights, the correct amount of floatation devices and a signaling device to your vessel and it is COMPLIANT.
  2. Add headlight, tail light, license plate, and rear view mirror to a dirt bike and it will then be 'street legal' and COMPLIANT.
  3. Add a California emissions package to a car and it will be legal to register and drive in California.
  4. Remove the flash hider and bayonet lug from an AR and it was COMPLIANT with the now expired Assault Weapon ban.
  5. Add a magazine plug to your shotgun to limit your shells to be COMPLIANT for hunting.
  6. Add a round limiting floor plate to your hicap mags and you are compliant in those states limiting mag capacity.
  7. Drive the speed limit and you're compliant, yet most cars are capable of going way over any speed limit.
I think Baofengs would fall into the category of the above precedents of non permanent compliance. Why do you think they should be treated differently?

Unless of course; are you predicting that the radio police will go around seizing radios and taking them back to the lab and test to see if their frequency can be altered using software or hardware, to determine if it is capable of hardware or software changes that allow it to transmit in a range of frequencies that is non-compliant, even if they can't get it to transmit on non licensed frequencies in the field? Or that HAM radios are somehow a 'special circumstance' items that warrants special attention?

You currently don't have to have a license to buy a HAM radio, no matter what its frequency range, you only need the license if you intend to transmit with it. Anyone can buy and own a 10m radio and not have the license to transmit on 10m. If that's true, what do you think about this? a 10m HAM that can convert into an 11m CB?? https://www.amazon.com/AnyTone-AT-5555N ... lp_pl_dp_5

☛EASY TO MODIFY FOR CB RADIO USAGE The default frequency 28.000-29.700Mhz(10 meter Radio).If you need it to be CB Radio,to remove soldering will change the meter radio to 25.615-30.105Mhz( by OP1 grounded). Please send us email if you need the expand frequency instruction.Range 28.000-29.700MHz(Programmable) Channel 40channels(programmable)in each band
Not a software change to convert it, its a reversible [non permanent] hardware change. This doesn't make this mod legal, IDK, but there's more happening than software is what I'm saying. And banning any particular import won't stop radio use for purposes of non-commercial exchange of messages, wireless experimentation, self-training, private recreation, radiosport, contesting, and emergency communication.

Then if its not the person, and its not the frequencies, and its not the radio, it must be the license. Lets require proof of license [and affidavit of intent to comply and not alter the radio in any way] at time of sale?!? [no lets don't start down that road please]

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Re: Baofeng Radios.

Post by NT2C » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:32 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:45 am
Examples of items that would/could be field inspected for compliance: [just a few non permanent changes to an item to make it compliant]
  1. Add running lights, the correct amount of floatation devices and a signaling device to your vessel and it is COMPLIANT.
  2. Add headlight, tail light, license plate, and rear view mirror to a dirt bike and it will then be 'street legal' and COMPLIANT.
  3. Add a California emissions package to a car and it will be legal to register and drive in California.
  4. Remove the flash hider and bayonet lug from an AR and it was COMPLIANT with the now expired Assault Weapon ban.
  5. Add a magazine plug to your shotgun to limit your shells to be COMPLIANT for hunting.
  6. Add a round limiting floor plate to your hicap mags and you are compliant in those states limiting mag capacity.
  7. Drive the speed limit and you're compliant, yet most cars are capable of going way over any speed limit.
I think Baofengs would fall into the category of the above precedents of non permanent compliance. Why do you think they should be treated differently?
None of these things have any bearing on what makes something compliant with FCC regulations. It's equivalent to being 6 years-old and complaining to your parents that your friend's parents let him stay up an hour longer than your bedtime. It didn't work with your parents and it's not going to work with the FCC. FCC has already issued their regulations on this and the requirements for what complies and what doesn't have already been determined by them. There's no need for individual radio testing because manufacturers are required to submit samples to the FCC for testing before they can be offered for sale. (that FCC sticker inside the radio on the chassis attests to this) The FCC's position on software control of radios is that they consider them the same as physical controls. If the controls allow it to operate on a frequency that requires a specific type acceptance certification then it needs to have that certification. If it doesn't then it should not be allowed for sale (remember, this FCC letter was primarily directed to retailers), even though it may have general Part 15 acceptance.
MacWa77ace wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:45 am
You currently don't have to have a license to buy a HAM radio, no matter what its frequency range, you only need the license if you intend to transmit with it. Anyone can buy and own a 10m radio and not have the license to transmit on 10m.
This is true but it should be noted that radios approved to marketed to hams are indeed restricted to the ham bands. Hams, however, have always been allowed to modify other radios to operate on ham bands, or even build their own radios. This is because the amateur radio service has always been considered an experimenter's service. Hams are expected to know and adhere to the rules for what is allowed and what isn't, and are expected to have the tools and skills needed to ensure that any work they did modifying or building radios did not cause those radios to emit harmful emissions. (Harmful here refers to harm to the radio spectrum)
MacWa77ace wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:45 am
If that's true, what do you think about this? a 10m HAM that can convert into an 11m CB?? https://www.amazon.com/AnyTone-AT-5555N ... lp_pl_dp_5
☛EASY TO MODIFY FOR CB RADIO USAGE The default frequency 28.000-29.700Mhz(10 meter Radio).If you need it to be CB Radio,to remove soldering will change the meter radio to 25.615-30.105Mhz( by OP1 grounded). Please send us email if you need the expand frequency instruction.Range 28.000-29.700MHz(Programmable) Channel 40channels(programmable)in each band
Not a software change to convert it, its a reversible [non permanent] hardware change. This doesn't make this mod legal, IDK, but there's more happening than software is what I'm saying.
Ham gear has a long history of being illegally modified for use in other services. Current FCC regulations do indeed prohibit such modifications from being made, even if you never transmit with it. Mere possession of the equipment is considered prima facie evidence of use and will get you a hefty fine. The regulations do not, however, violate your first amendment right to instruct someone how to do it. These particular radios very carefully skirt around the language of the regulations. They meet all the requirements to be sold as ham radios because they are incapable of working on 11m as sold. FCC has long needed to restrict sale of amateur radio equipment to licensed hams only. I suspect the reason they never have is that they couldn't hope to enforce it with the budgetary limitations they have.
MacWa77ace wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:45 am
And banning any particular import won't stop radio use for purposes of non-commercial exchange of messages, wireless experimentation, self-training, private recreation, radiosport, contesting, and emergency communication.
I'd have to almost write a book here to address all of those things the way they should be addressed. Unfortunately, I have neither the time (I'm supposed to be cooking dinner right now) nor the inclination (I'm not the FCC, I just have the job of trying to make sure discussions here comply with ZS rules, and one of those rules being no discussion of illegal activities. I've gotten pretty good over the years at understanding "FCC-speak" (I was first licensed in the 70s - not as a ham though) but it's a confusing morass of weird twists and turns that makes explaining nuances to others a chore. I'll just say, regarding that last bit, that true emergency communications are exempt from most FCC rules and regs, and enforcement by the FCC has gotten critically weakened over the last couple of decades due to budget. It's enforcement bureau used to have hundreds of field engineers and enforcement agents. Today they number less than 50, and the vast majority of their efforts are directed at issues involving commercial licensees.
MacWa77ace wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:45 am
Lets require proof of license [and affidavit of intent to comply and not alter the radio in any way] at time of sale?!? [no lets don't start down that road please]
Requiring a license to purchase would not be that bad of an idea IMHO.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except sailors. They will kill you and sing songs about it.

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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