Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Topics on Radio (CB, GMRS, Ham, etc), GPS, Smoke Signals, or whatever else you can use to talk to other people who are not within yelling distance.

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froglegs888
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Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by froglegs888 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:25 pm

they advertise on the GMRS radio packages? I know that in urban setting it's pretty much limited to line of sight, but what about on the ocean? Would they really work out to 30+ miles, and if not, why hasn't someone called BS on the companies that advertise this?... :shock:

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Blacksheep
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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:59 pm

On top of a big ass cliff,
To someone on a smooth ocean,
Perfect weather,
Good rf propagation,

Maybe :lol:
In space, probably... But that presents other issues


Midland at least shows a little picture on the back of the product packaging showing varios distance expectations based on conditions

Still pretty deceptive I guess


Here's the problem I see
It depends on your conditions
How do they define the conditions to test across the board?
The person in open country is going to get better range that someone in a major city
But the radio could be bought by either and will only have one packaging option

And then there's the fact that rf does funny things, so it's hard to know everything that factors into the equation, plus even the day changes things since the weather affects radio signals so developing a repeatable control for the industry could prove tricky... Or at least enough of a pain that it isn't worth their time


I've yet to see any ham radio claim any range, they just provide power specs and your on your own after that

Honestly, take the listed range specs, and use it as kindling, far more useful they way
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TacAir
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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by TacAir » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:06 pm

http://www.mike-willis.com/Tutorial/PF6.htm

Frequency dependent. Linked site covers this at some length - with the math. Enjoy.
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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by manowar1313 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:10 pm

I'm a few years out but there is a physical formula to determine the maximum distance a radio can transmit without interference distorting the signal to a useless noise. That's how they calculate maximum distance, that's a best situation-line-of-sight-no-other-radio-signals calculation. To get a practical distance in near perfect conditions split the claimed maximum.
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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by gary in ohio » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:57 am

Possible yes if everyone on the planet turns off all their radios.. Basically its marketing lies.. While location can affect distance pretty much ANY connsumer handheld radio is going to be limited to just a couple of miles.
froglegs888 wrote:they advertise on the GMRS radio packages? I know that in urban setting it's pretty much limited to line of sight, but what about on the ocean? Would they really work out to 30+ miles, and if not, why hasn't someone called BS on the companies that advertise this?... :shock:

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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by mystic_1 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:52 pm

Setting aside all theoretical math, my real-world experience is that you can rarely expect to get more than a mile or two out of any blisterpack GMRS radio. Sometimes much less depending on terrain, buildings or foliage, etc.

Best results of course come from having a clear unobstructed direct line of sight to the radio on the other end.

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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by Stercutus » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:11 pm

I get about 5-7 miles out of Cobras on open terrain. They were the best I ever used. You simply can not push out enough on those bands legally to do any more than that.
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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by mattltm » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:05 am

It's not just a case of pushing out power on these bands. Line of Sight is the main limiting factor.
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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by zommoz10 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:43 pm

There is another forum where a representative from uniden who played an active role in their deceptive packaging chimed in after I and several other people complained about it and he said where he went to do the testing. I forget the name of it now but it was somewhere out in the pacific northwest where they were talking from high mountain peak to another high mountain peak across a flat valley. Somewhere remote with a low noise floor. I mean, all the best possible conditions and they got 50 miles. It's obviously misleading because no users will experience ideal conditions like that and even if they were in a place like that, they wouldn't be talking to someone on another mountaintop.

It's akin to advertising a car that gets 1,000 MPG but to get that you have to take it to the top of a mountain and let it cruise down hill in neutral with the engine turned off.

The best I've done with FRS was I heard an FRS user from 3 miles away 20 stories up in a highrise building. But then again, I wasn't listening on an FRS radio either.

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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:57 am

Curious,
Did they report signal quality?

Even in those conditions, I would be surprised if it did anything more they pop the squelch



It really comes down to some kind of standard
Lacking a good industry benchmark everyone is going to sugar coat it as much as possible

How do you precisely simulate, and recreate the same urban conditions?

You almost need a third party company to do tests in a major city from fixed points
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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by buck85 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:02 pm

This band plan was created and proposed to the fcc by a ham in California. He saw a need for a low cost handheld radio that was easy to use and affordable.It was to be used in a time of disaster(most notable earthquakes) Frs / gmrs radios are regulated by the fcc .They were never designed to be a use as a personal radio
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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by buck85 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:04 pm

TacAir wrote:http://www.mike-willis.com/Tutorial/PF6.htm

Frequency dependent. Linked site covers this at some length - with the math. Enjoy.
found very interesting!!!!
If you know who you are, you can, then know other people.

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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by lamontjb » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:27 am

buck85 wrote:This band plan was created and proposed to the fcc by a ham in California. He saw a need for a low cost handheld radio that was easy to use and affordable.It was to be used in a time of disaster(most notable earthquakes) Frs / gmrs radios are regulated by the fcc .They were never designed to be a use as a personal radio
I only have a HAM license (not a GMRS license), but I would say that no one created the GMRS band. It was regulated by FCC after commercialization of the frequency spectrum. And according to wiki (I know, not the be all end all) "The United States permits use by an adult individual who possesses a valid GMRS license, as well as his or her immediate family members.[1] Immediate relatives of the GMRS system licensee are entitled to communicate among themselves for personal or business purposes"

As far as range of GMRS, I don't know. I've used some pretty high powered, directional based antennas, on flat land (desert), with an elevated antenna 10 meters high, and 30 miles was pushing the limit. Maybe if you added amplifiers, or other equipment to boost signal to noise ratios, increased power, and elevated the antenna even higher, you could reach the advertised 30 miles, but realistically I don't think so (or if your on two completely different elevations (top of mountain).

I couldn't get the site to work, but his other stuff looks interesting.

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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by zommoz10 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:54 pm

Blacksheep wrote:Curious,
Did they report signal quality?
If that question was directed to me, then my answer is of course not.

They can put anything there and people will buy it anyway and there will be no consequence for lying about it.

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Re: Is it REALLY possible to communicate the distances...

Post by TheQuietSurvivalist » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:21 am

Guys

first thing, these are uhf freq not vhf. But the hidden gold with GMRS is the 5 watt power increase over the 500 milliwatts on frs. Also UHF works much better around obstacles the vhf because vhf bounces, uhf tends to curve along solid objects. In steep rocky terrain and where you don't necessarily have LOS UHF is a far better choice than VHF.

Straight line with a beam antenna Ive talked to an operator 50 miles away. But I live on a mountain and took care in selection of my antenna. With the stock antennas......maybe on a good day with the phase of the moon just right and the chicken entrails saying the right things. Remember the first 7 channels of both FRS and GMRS are the same, with different power limits

I did a long post with KE4SKY here http://quietsurvivalist.com/range-of-frsgmrs-radios/

Much easier to link than repost but good information, he is very active in the DC area with EMCOMM

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