10 meter / cb radio ?'s

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10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by dbcar » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:13 am

Hi all,

I am in the process of studying for my ham license, which is a real pai cuz there are no classes around here, so I'm trying to learn everything in my own. It's tough cuz I don't learn out of a book very well.

Anyway. The only radio shop in my area sells convert 10 meter radios to cb. I was thinking, cool now I get the best of both worlds! As I researched this I found that may not be true. When the radio is converted does that ruin the 10 meter band? Also I've noticed that ham's are very legal operators. Are most people running stock ham's or are they tuned up? Seems to me that in theory of how the radios transmit that tuning may not make much of a difference. And antennas. If I were to use 10 meter, are cb type antennas compatible?

I don't know any hams and this Is a very overwhelming task. I havent bought any equipment yet. I wanted to research my options first.

Thank you for your help. Sorry if my questions are ignorant, I'm very new to this.

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by majorhavoc » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:17 am


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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by NT2C » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:40 pm

And, just so you know for certain and aren't left wondering, those 10m/CB combo rigs are illegal under federal regulations. Possible penalties can go as high as $10,000 fine and/or one year in jail per violation, per day.
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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by TacAir » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:18 pm

Getting into Ham radio can be...overwhelming. But, like the journey of a million miles, you have to start somewhere.

When looking at a rig, the technical specifications may look like so much mobojumbo. In fact signal to noise ratio and minimum describable signal are important. It's in English, maybe just not the English you are familiar with.

So - take it one step at a time. You're here, so you have internet access.

Let's us use the FT-840 review from QSTas a stating point. QST is one of many publications of the ARRL and I think everyone here will agree there have the best technical reviews for ham equipment.
As a side note note, the eHam reviews are more of 'how this has worked for me' and few if any contain any real technical details.

So, as you look at the article you'll see general comments on ease of use, control features and issues.

Then you hit stuff like this "Blocking dynamic range". What is it, and does it matter?

You can find some excellent papers covering the subject, like this one from QEX, another ARRL publication, and usually very technical.

Look a bit further, you can find things like this - well written and easier to understand:

"Dynamic range in general is the difference between the weakest signal that
can be perceived and the strongest signal that can be present without
adversely effecting the weakest signal.

In the case of ham rigs, the weakest signal is generally considered to be
one that is equal in power to the receiver's internal noise, although most
folks can pick out weaker signals using the "filter" between their ears.

BDR stands for Blocking Dynamic Range and it refers to a condition where the
weak signal is "blocked" or suppressed. In layman's terms, you'll often
hear this described as "desense" because it reduces the effective
sensitivity of the receiver.

BDR as a lab measurement normally refers to the point where the weak
(presumed desired) signal is reduced by one dB by the presence of a strong
(presumed undesired) nearby signal. The frequency difference between the
two is the "spacing". The blocking dynamic range is a measure of the
difference between the receiver's noise floor and the level of the signal
that caused the blocking condition. "

If some of the words or phrases - say "noise floor", are new to you, look them up as well

Short of having someone explain all this stuff - an Elmer, you can use the internet as a research tool. It will take time and some effort on your part. But nothing worth having is easy, especially when it come to knowledge, with technical knowledge being perhaps the hardest of all.

It also won't be fast, it can take years to understand all of this stuff. Right now, I'm digging into APCO trunked Project 25 radio systems, focused on the ASTRO iteration - so I can make an intelligent buy in a new scanner, of all things.

Ham radio has so many sub-sets as a hobby, it may take you forever to learn everything...

So, take it one step at a time.
Use Google as your Elmer
Take the time to look up a phrase or word to ensure you know what it means. As you add to both your vocabulary and knowledge, it gets easier.

Don't give up, it's a journey worth taking.
Last edited by TacAir on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by gary in ohio » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:51 pm

dbcar wrote:
Anyway. The only radio shop in my area sells convert 10 meter radios to cb. I was thinking, cool now I get the best of both worlds!
Those 10/11 meter radio are not legal on CB and are pretty crappy radios for 10m. Decide what your communications needs are. CB 5-10 miles, ham radio (depending on license) for any distance. One you decide your needs then find a radio. Dont try to fit the radio into your needs.

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by NT2C » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:12 pm

gary in ohio wrote:
dbcar wrote:
Anyway. The only radio shop in my area sells convert 10 meter radios to cb. I was thinking, cool now I get the best of both worlds!
Those 10/11 meter radio are not legal on CB and are pretty crappy radios for 10m. Decide what your communications needs are. CB 5-10 miles, ham radio (depending on license) for any distance. One you decide your needs then find a radio. Dont try to fit the radio into your needs.
Ummm... I know what you're trying to say Gary, but the way you said it might confuse him.

For the OP:

With ham, license class does not directly affect the range you can communicate at. It only affects what frequencies (and power levels) you can use, which will affect your range to a certain extent. Still even at the lowest license class, technician, it is certainly possible to communicate around the globe on 10 meters phone (voice) when the band is open, or use satellite communications or EME on VHF and UHF. The only real limitations with ham are how deep your wallet is and how much time & effort you want to put into the hobby.
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Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by zombieresponder » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:27 pm

It'd be best to start reading the FCC regulations. To be brief, it's illegal to run more than 4 or 5 watts on CB frequencies, except if using SSB which is 12 watts. Amature radios aren't type approved for use on CB frequencies either, so that's another problem. As a general rule, there isn't much reason to "tune up" a ham radio since they cost more, and that extra cost allows the use of higher quality components and better quality control. Most, if not all, ham and amature radios for automotive or home use will use a PL-259 type connector for the antenna. The exception to this is handheld units(handy talkie or HT), which use a variety of connectors. My Yaesu FT60R uses a SMA connector, for example. I bought an SMA to BNC adapter, and an aftermarket antenna that uses the BNC connector.

This site(free) is one that I used when I was studying for tech and general. http://hamexam.org/ If I remember correctly, the testing software on that site is "smart" and will note which type of questions you have trouble with and which ones you don't. It will then bring up the problem types that you have trouble with more often. There are other sites like this out there, some of which will try to get you to pay them. Don't pay for anything other than ARRL study guides(or similar), and the test fee to get your license. There's no reason to do so since the question pool for the tests is available to the public. Something to keep in mind is that most places will allow you to take more than one test for the same fee. I think it cost me something like $14 to take both the tech and general. If I'd studied for the extra, I could have taken that as well and not had to pay another test fee at a later date(although I doubt I'll ever go for extra).

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by dbcar » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Thanks everyone for the great info. It answers a lot of questions. Bottom line, I need to be patient and just learn for now.

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:13 pm

dbcar wrote:Thanks everyone for the great info. It answers a lot of questions. Bottom line, I need to be patient and just learn for now.
The learning part never ends, which is part of why I like Ham so much - there's always something new out there to explore if you're interested.

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by Lacerated1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:38 pm

I also studied using the hamexam.org for all my prep, and got my technician license in a month. I also used a "no nonsense" guide pdf I found thanks to google....also search on YouTube for ham exam prep, you will find tons of great videos done by hamwhisperer

Good luck

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by gary in ohio » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:12 am

KJ4VOV wrote:
For the OP:

With ham, license class does not directly affect the range you can communicate at. It only affects what frequencies (and power levels) you can use, which will affect your range to a certain extent. Still even at the lowest license class, technician, it is certainly possible to communicate around the globe on 10 meters phone (voice) when the band is open, or use satellite communications or EME on VHF and UHF. The only real limitations with ham are how deep your wallet is and how much time & effort you want to put into the hobby.
but the fundamental fact is a tech license is short range and general or extra offers HF and world wide coverage. Yes a tech can use moon bounce and 6m or 10 for longer range, but virtually none of these ham in weekend hams tech's are going to be doing that. Tech short range general/extra long range comms.

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by NT2C » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:09 am

gary in ohio wrote:
KJ4VOV wrote:
For the OP:

With ham, license class does not directly affect the range you can communicate at. It only affects what frequencies (and power levels) you can use, which will affect your range to a certain extent. Still even at the lowest license class, technician, it is certainly possible to communicate around the globe on 10 meters phone (voice) when the band is open, or use satellite communications or EME on VHF and UHF. The only real limitations with ham are how deep your wallet is and how much time & effort you want to put into the hobby.
but the fundamental fact is a tech license is short range and general or extra offers HF and world wide coverage. Yes a tech can use moon bounce and 6m or 10 for longer range, but virtually none of these ham in weekend hams tech's are going to be doing that. Tech short range general/extra long range comms.
As a basic, rule-of-thumb type thing I'll agree with you, but there are exceptions to every rule. :)
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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by uncleben03 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:54 pm

I'm a tech. I use the radio about a half dozen times a year. But I still have contacts to Brazil, Hawaii, US Virgin Islands, and England, to name a few.
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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by Lacerated1 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:04 am

I'm a general, and currently just use the local 2meter net to stay in touch with my radio club.

I would be interested in getting a nice mobile for my car, but my money tree is asleep for the winter.

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by Ambrose » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:39 pm

For studying, I would suggest hamtest online, which I used for my general and extra (I used a book to start, then hamtest online to drill for extra), The tests are really just the beginning of a lifetime of learning, of course, but they do have to be done...

A CB is a handy comm, too, but as stated you want it as a seperate device than a ham radio. If you get an hf radio, I would suggest getting one that works on all hf bands, from a reputable mail order house if need be, not just 10m, as you will likely want to go for your general down the road.
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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by JohnE » Sat May 11, 2013 6:52 pm

dbcar wrote:Hi all,

I am in the process of studying for my ham license, which is a real pai cuz there are no classes around here, so I'm trying to learn everything in my own. It's tough cuz I don't learn out of a book very well.

Anyway. The only radio shop in my area sells convert 10 meter radios to cb. I was thinking, cool now I get the best of both worlds! As I researched this I found that may not be true. When the radio is converted does that ruin the 10 meter band? Also I've noticed that ham's are very legal operators. Are most people running stock ham's or are they tuned up? Seems to me that in theory of how the radios transmit that tuning may not make much of a difference. And antennas. If I were to use 10 meter, are cb type antennas compatible?

I don't know any hams and this Is a very overwhelming task. I havent bought any equipment yet. I wanted to research my options first.

Thank you for your help. Sorry if my questions are ignorant, I'm very new to this.
Contact the Carroll County Amateur Radio club, they're located right there in Westminster.
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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by hank_612 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:45 am

Lacerated1 wrote:I'm a general, and currently just use the local 2meter net to stay in touch with my radio club.

I would be interested in getting a nice mobile for my car, but my money tree is asleep for the winter.

Sent from my better than a sharp stick Android phone.

I am a general also but love 38 lsb. I am a big fan of the President/Uniden 2510 2600 Lincoln Platform for 10/11 m. Please PM me if you would like to borrow a 10m CB that is a quality radio.
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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by NT2C » Tue May 14, 2013 9:13 am

hank_612 wrote:
Lacerated1 wrote:I'm a general, and currently just use the local 2meter net to stay in touch with my radio club.

I would be interested in getting a nice mobile for my car, but my money tree is asleep for the winter.

Sent from my better than a sharp stick Android phone.

I am a general also but love 38 lsb. I am a big fan of the President/Uniden 2510 2600 Lincoln Platform for 10/11 m. Please PM me if you would like to borrow a 10m CB that is a quality radio.
As was mentioned earlier, such rigs are illegal and it's against ZS policy to discuss or promote illegal activities.
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Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by kmcdon3960 » Tue May 14, 2013 11:10 am

KJ4VOV wrote:As was mentioned earlier, such rigs are illegal and it's against ZS policy to discuss or promote illegal activities.
It is not illegal to own these rigs. It's just illegal to use them to transmit on frequencies that you're not authorized to. It's perfectly OK to have one of these, and if you're a licensed ham, to transmit on 10 meters with it. You only are engaging in illegal activities if you transmit on cb (not type accepted) or "freeband." You can still listen all day long and that's perfectly fine.

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by hank_612 » Tue May 14, 2013 6:16 pm

KJ4VOV wrote:
hank_612 wrote:
Lacerated1 wrote:I'm a general, and currently just use the local 2meter net to stay in touch with my radio club.

I would be interested in getting a nice mobile for my car, but my money tree is asleep for the winter.

Sent from my better than a sharp stick Android phone.

I am a general also but love 38 lsb. I am a big fan of the President/Uniden 2510 2600 Lincoln Platform for 10/11 m. Please PM me if you would like to borrow a 10m CB that is a quality radio.
As was mentioned earlier, such rigs are illegal and it's against ZS policy to discuss or promote illegal activities.

Noted. My goal was to help a guy out thanks for giving your two cents. I am sure someone values your opinion. Thanks and GFY
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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by Dah Di Dah » Wed May 15, 2013 11:49 am

dbcar wrote:Hi all,

I am in the process of studying for my ham license, which is a real pai cuz there are no classes around here, so I'm trying to learn everything in my own. It's tough cuz I don't learn out of a book very well.

Anyway. The only radio shop in my area sells convert 10 meter radios to cb. I was thinking, cool now I get the best of both worlds! As I researched this I found that may not be true. When the radio is converted does that ruin the 10 meter band? Also I've noticed that ham's are very legal operators. Are most people running stock ham's or are they tuned up? Seems to me that in theory of how the radios transmit that tuning may not make much of a difference. And antennas. If I were to use 10 meter, are cb type antennas compatible?

I don't know any hams and this Is a very overwhelming task. I havent bought any equipment yet. I wanted to research my options first.

Thank you for your help. Sorry if my questions are ignorant, I'm very new to this.
Your problem might be - that you don't know where to look, or like you said, that there is not any active amateur radio clubs in your area that promotes amateur radio in a positive light - hence does not offer a amateur radio class in your area.

That is not to say that it is not available for you to attend a amateur radio class or VE test session.. You just might have to travel.

The Cambria Radio Club offers monthly VE test sessions and also offers Ham in a Day classes and has a active group of amateurs in the Johnstown / Altoona PA area - that you can participate with - even for Field Days.

The Bedford PA club has a repeater and about 10 members - you might inquire about a VE test session or radio classes.. It might be the shot in the arm that they need to get motivated to do more in the way of amateur radio.

The Laurel Amateur Radio Club - Larc - Laurel MD - is a VEC, you might find all that you need and more by just contacting them or visiting their web site...

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by Dah Di Dah » Wed May 15, 2013 12:03 pm

DBcar - there is no dumb questions, just dumb people in this world.

At one time, unless we were born into a amateur radio family, we all had to start at the beginning and take baby steps.

Most of the advice on this forum is outdated - due to the forum moderator not keeping things up to date or editing the older information.

Most amateur radio equipment manufacturered today can be grouped into one of a couple of subjects..

Handhelds - which don't do much, or do them well.
Definately the last radio a amateur should buy, not the first.

Mobile transceivers - where most people who are serious about becomming a ham starts - since they offer 40 - 50 watts and can talk to the local repeaters...

Mobile HF - multi purpose rigs - Icom 7000, Yaesu Ft 857D, Icom 706 MK II G etc.
Allows someone with a limited amount of money to buy a new radio that does a little of everything, just doesn't do anything particularly good... Not as much if any filtering, small display, crappy audio.

Full Size Base Station - allows the operator to work all HF and all modes of HF and can be connected to a computer and enough power to drive a small amplifier.
Has good filtering and DSP - no use buying older equipment that has to be used with a external antenna tuner or other crap...

Yaesu FT 950 - is margional, Kenwood TS 590 - gives you the biggest bang for your buck!
ICOM had a 746 Pro - discontinued, but still makes a simliar model - does ok for what it is.

The same is true with antenna's -

Vertical - good for UHF and VHF - as long as you put it up as high as you can get it and use the best possible coax - so you don't throw away transmit and receive power in the coax.

Dipole - good for HF bands

Multi Use Dipole - does multiple bands with one antenna and some antenna tuning.
You can get a 10 - 80 meter dipole - that fits into the same amount of real estate as a G5RV for a couple of hundred bucks that will last a lifetime.
Barker & Williamson BWD 90 - Folded Dipole fits this criteria.
Hy Power - off center fed dipole is another option....

G5RV - is a non resonant antenna that is designed to be used on 20 meters only!
Is a crappy substitute for a real antenna...

Beam antenna and tower - is good for some bands depending upon design.
Can be had in multi bands - such as 40 / 20 / 15 / 10 meters
30 / 15 / 10 meters / - 10 meters only / 6 meters only / 2 meters only / 70 CM only...
The only limit to their design is their cost - the more you spend, the better a antenna you get.

Amateur radio takes place on multiple bands - where as CB radio takes place on 1/2 of 1 Megacycle in the 27 MHz range...

CB does not require much skill or technology - since one antenna does it all.

A 11 meters CB radio antenna can usually be used on 10 and 12 meters with a amateur radio that incorporates a antenna tuner... I have worked the world on 10 meters with a Astron A99 vertical antenna and as little as 25 watts SSB....

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Re: 10 meter / cb radio ?'s

Post by JohnE » Wed May 15, 2013 4:56 pm

Just a thought, why don't you introduce yourself in the proper forum before you criticize the moderators on your very first day here?
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