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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:59 pm 
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Yup, ideological baggage is unavoidable, and contradictions are rampant in most groups. The classic prepper equivalent might be the guy stockpiling decades worth of food when his health gives him a life expectancy of only a few years, or having guns, armor and 2nd line gear when he can't run 200yds without stopping.

The Rewild/primitive groups have it worse then most, it seems they would generally have to choose between a slow death in obscurity or compromising on their values and going to the interwebs to recruit new blood and funding. The more lighthearted groups seem all too willing to poke fun at themselves for it (http://www.urbanscout.org/lolz/), but the wiser course would seem to be keeping overt rhetoric on the DL to avoid too many accusations of hypocrisy.
On the internet any clear declaration of a coherent belief system is an invitation for attack.

For me it just comes down to that I've read so much from so many pompous ideologues and tinfoil hat fear mongers that A) these guys seem pretty tame by comparison and B) my BS tolerance is probably higher then average.

I really enjoy speculation and experimentation with long term wilderness living, but that scenario seems to be dominated by very few groups, namely the primitive living gang of which I tire of their strict adherence to an arbitrarily selected time period (and true long-term examples seem to be lacking, mostly a fair weather activity for understandable reasons) and the lone trapper/hunter/woodsman archetype that also gets old, I assume because the lack of family/community makes it feel like a dead end of sorts. Unsurprisingly a lot of the content worth reading seems to come from Alaska.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:10 pm 
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Just an aside but their vernacular is also very interesting to me - the way they talk of the hunter-gathering as "harvesting" and the game regions as "nodes". How these groups develop cohesion is based strongly on use of language amongst themselves. We see the same as preppers...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:28 am 
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I've noticed the "harvesting" thing amongst new-wave hunters as well, with the Paleo movement making meat eating socially acceptable again more sportsman are getting into hunting that have traditionally been in the REI crowd, and a more sensitive vocabulary has come with them.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:54 pm 
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RonnyRonin wrote:
I've noticed the "harvesting" thing amongst new-wave hunters as well, with the Paleo movement making meat eating socially acceptable again more sportsman are getting into hunting that have traditionally been in the REI crowd, and a more sensitive vocabulary has come with them.

It's odd - 'harvesting' I mean I wonder if they are using it as a more sensitive or if they feel it better embodies what they are doing? I get it if I said I 'harvested a region' and the implication would be I hunted, I fished, and I gathered berries/tubers as a catch all term. But yeh it's funny.

I worked with some rather hippy sorts for a while and there was no qualms about putting a wood pigeon out of its misery and eating it - I'm glad to see more people invested in this than veganism :clownshoes:

I was reading a blog linked on there and some guy tried that earth lodge/dirt in ground kind of thing and tried his own 'hybrid' design and it ended poorly. Again emulating existing designs that are known to have worked would seem the obvious choice, I did have a chuckle at that. If you want to go primitive you don't have to reinvent the wheel...(or should that be invent the wheel).

Ronny- you should check out he blogs No Tech Magazine and their sister Low Tech Magazine. All about low tech solutions to high tech problems or revisiting technology that went out of use from a historical perspective.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:03 pm 
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They can have my comfort when they pry it from my cold, dead butt cheeks!

the_alias wrote:
Just an aside but their vernacular is also very interesting to me - the way they talk of the hunter-gathering as "harvesting" and the game regions as "nodes". How these groups develop cohesion is based strongly on use of language amongst themselves. We see the same as preppers...

It seems like most groups develop their own vocabulary fairly quickly. I hadn't thought about it from the group cohesion angle.

I think it does make it challenging for outsiders to get an accurate idea of what people are talking about. I know I've read things and thought be were nuts only to discover they were using a certain words or terms differently than what I was used to.

RonnyRonin wrote:
I've noticed the "harvesting" thing amongst new-wave hunters as well, with the Paleo movement making meat eating socially acceptable again more sportsman are getting into hunting that have traditionally been in the REI crowd, and a more sensitive vocabulary has come with them.

I wonder if they are saying "harvested" to try to make it clear that they are hunting animals for food? It's been my anecdotal experience that if you talk about hunting many people from the city who don't hunt immediately jump to the conclusion that you're talking about trophy hunting.

I don't know where this notion that most people who hunt are just killing animals for pleasure and don't harvest the meat got started. I'm sure there are some people who do that, but I doubt they are the norm and AFAIK it is not legal most places.

the_alias wrote:
Ronny- you should check out he blogs No Tech Magazine and their sister Low Tech Magazine. All about low tech solutions to high tech problems or revisiting technology that went out of use from a historical perspective.

One of my coworkers who lives off the grid and is into permaculture keeps telling me about those magazines. I really should check them out.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:41 pm 
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This isn't feral culture . But it is, not quite primitive. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/39791

I have the down load ( and the link to get it) of another old farming/homesteading book from the early 20th century. Can't seem to find it on this puter ( or the previous laptop) But I know for sure I have the link on the puter in my shop. I'll try to get out there tomorrow and post it . It had a lot of diagrams, pictures and text on how to do things with mostly handmade tools and devices.

Never mind. I remembered I already posted the link to this site. http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/device/devicesToC.html

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:35 am 
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quazi wrote:
the_alias wrote:
Just an aside but their vernacular is also very interesting to me - the way they talk of the hunter-gathering as "harvesting" and the game regions as "nodes". How these groups develop cohesion is based strongly on use of language amongst themselves. We see the same as preppers...

It seems like most groups develop their own vocabulary fairly quickly. I hadn't thought about it from the group cohesion angle.

I think it does make it challenging for outsiders to get an accurate idea of what people are talking about. I know I've read things and thought be were nuts only to discover they were using a certain words or terms differently than what I was used to.

RonnyRonin wrote:
I've noticed the "harvesting" thing amongst new-wave hunters as well, with the Paleo movement making meat eating socially acceptable again more sportsman are getting into hunting that have traditionally been in the REI crowd, and a more sensitive vocabulary has come with them.

I wonder if they are saying "harvested" to try to make it clear that they are hunting animals for food? It's been my anecdotal experience that if you talk about hunting many people from the city who don't hunt immediately jump to the conclusion that you're talking about trophy hunting.

I don't know where this notion that most people who hunt are just killing animals for pleasure and don't harvest the meat got started. I'm sure there are some people who do that, but I doubt they are the norm and AFAIK it is not legal most places.


I've been involved in the Bowhunter online community for some time (less so of late), and the trend of using the Term "Harvesting" and other euphemistic terms instead of kill was noted. A mentor of mine disliked the trend so much that he used the term "Killvest".

There is a strong bias against hunting and killing, with many people unable to say they enjoy it at all, because they don't want to be portrayed as a sadistic serial killer, which is the classic canard from those opposed to hunting. Distancing yourself from animal death using language is entirely understandable, as most of our culture isolates itself completely from the idea that killing animals and human activity is linked.

Interestingly, it's not a modern phenomenon, the Indian Caste system and some forms of Buddhism place those connected to animal death at the bottom.

So, the use of Harvested instead of killed or hunted has been going on since the 90's at least, alongside the desire for trophy pictures not to have blood in them. I would go on a rant about sanitizing the reality out of life, but I think that's enough screed from me already.

Just today I read an article on the BBC about the decline in french hunters.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37865215


Low Tech and No Tech Blogs are fantastic resources full of innovative ideas.



In terms of feral culture, I've done some guerrilla growing myself and I'm increasingly fascinated by west coast first nations aqua-culture. There are also urban gardening movements that I see as importing some of the aspects of feral culture by using waste space and are often plant and forget.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Ad'lan wrote:
I would go on a rant about sanitizing the reality out of life, but I think that's enough screed from me already.

I'm usually down to hear a screed. I'll shoot you a PM.

Ad'lan wrote:
In terms of feral culture, I've done some guerrilla growing myself and I'm increasingly fascinated by west coast first nations aqua-culture. There are also urban gardening movements that I see as importing some of the aspects of feral culture by using waste space and are often plant and forget.

I'm trying to do more research into indigenous American horticulture. There's definitely a lot of interesting stuff and I think a lot of it can be of benefit to survivalists looking to improve the food security of their neighborhood or their BOL. I still haven't dug very deep though.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:05 pm 
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quazi wrote:
I'm trying to do more research into indigenous American horticulture. There's definitely a lot of interesting stuff and I think a lot of it can be of benefit to survivalists looking to improve the food security of their neighborhood or their BOL. I still haven't dug very deep though.


Indigenous American horticulture is actually very fascinating. Well known example is maze (corn) but also tomato, potato, chilli peppers, sunflower, lima beans, peanuts, squashes, cocoa, rubber, vanilla, cotton, and so much more.

It is hard to imagine European foods without tomato, but until Europeans found the Americas they had no tomato. It is hard to imagine Eastern foods without chilli peppers, but before trade with the Americans there was no chilli peppers in Asian food.

The American indigenous had hardly any domestic livestock, but they were amazing horticulturists. Slowly through selective breeding creating some amazing crops.

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