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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:45 pm 
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I've sometimes read that the toilet stops working when the power is out. Is it true? Maybe, I do not know. I also read that the toilet works by moving water from the top part to flush the wasted down. So what am I driving at? Let us say your toilet does stop working...urinate in bottles (ladies use funnels and bottles) and pour the urine in the top of the toilet to keep everything running. This way you make yourself less of a target for the zombies or whoever is out there by not having to take your dump in the back yard or whatever. You can bug in, in peace. Thoughts? Is there some flaw in my thought process?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:33 pm 
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A gallon and a half of piss will smell like you wouldn't believe by the time you save that much up. We're talking apocalyptic, knock your ass out levels of stink as the urea is nitrified.

I'd suggest a sawdust toilet if you're worried about going outside for some reason. Bucket (and lid) do your business, throw sawdust over, proceed. Pee elsewhere (down the sink drain?)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:08 pm 
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it's not power that makes the toilet flush. As long as you have water pressure it will keep flushing. ( City or rural water of course. If you're on a well ... it needs power) . I think most water companies have back up generators in case of loss of power . If you don't have water pressure you can flush the toilet by just pouring some water into the bowl. At a certain point of the pour it just flushes without touching the handle.
When a storm approaches that could cause a power outage we fill up the bath tub. The water to flush the toilet is then right near your toilet. When the outage has lasted for days, we filled containers from a natural spring down the street to refill the tub.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:30 pm 
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When the power is out, you can fill the tank with water that you filled the tub with or with creek or pond water in order to flush or you can force flush it by pouring water quickly into the bowl. I have never been good at force flushing, so we just fill the tank when we flush. If you have a well, you want to turn the water off to your toilet so as not to drain the bladder. The bladder should not be dry, so do not run water or allow toilets to try and fill from the well when the power is out. Any water coming into the house is coming in from the bladder unless you have something other than an electric pump pulling water from your well.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:17 pm 
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Depends on if you are on septic or sanitary sewer. If you are on septic, no problem.
On sewer it opens up a few possible results. Depending on your location and how your municipal system operates. Without total power failure, I'll have sewer for 40-50 hours. I'm a few hundred yards above the lift station.
Fortunately, the city guy (me) has emergency generators to keep things moving.
Should power fail at the treatment plant, eventually the entire system will back up - the unfortunate user at the low spot will certainly have a bad day coming.
Depending on how high up the line you are, you may still be able to flush -just plan on drains being a little slow.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:16 am 
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So, if the guy at the top of the line is still flushing, will the guy at the bottom keep getting more unhappiness?

I saw somebody who places a trash bag in the toilet bowl and puts kitty litter in it. You can still use your toilet and just remove the bag when you're ready to use it as a regular toilet again. You could probably use lye or saw dust with this method. It might suck if your trash bag fails or slips down.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:49 pm 
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Septic is only not a problem until it is. Mistreatment, often by guests will shut it down in a hurry. Still it is better than sewer in most respects.

The poop will mostly go down a sewer with a water flush. Some situation where it may not include:

Flooding (by whatever means), earthquakes, war zones, long term power outages and a deliberate shut down by authorities. So long as it is working keep it working.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:42 am 
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Municipal sewers in many parts of the world rely upon pumps to move the sewerage to treatment plants. Without power at some point the transmission lines will fill and render the sewer inoperable.

The result, at your house, will be a toilet that will spontaneously begin to overflow, unless there is a check valve in the sewerage line to the house.

If that happens get a towel, a plastic bag and shove it into toilet drain to stop the back flow.

A septic system will not suffer from this issue, but as noted they have thier own issues.

BTW a chamber pot and hole in the backyard as far away from the house as possible should work for quite a while.

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Last edited by raptor on Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:01 pm 
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Have had personal observation of sewage “collection” failure.

At the last place we rented, power was out for a while. The water kept flowing. Our house was downhill, something like 40 foot or more elevation difference from the houses up hill. People kept flushing. Eventually the collection and pumping site in the alley behind us filled and the sewage started coming up the access port. Fortunately for us the top of the access was lower than our house drain, and we did not get backflow.

Upside now is our retirement house is on a crawl space, and on a lot that is higher than surrounding homes, and the roads slope down from us.

We know though that in an extended electrical outage the sewer will cease flowing, as will the city water.

In an online permaculture video, I noted the recommendation that to handle greywater, per person the plant bed would need to be 6 sq. ft. per person in the house, with a depth of 18 inches. Too deep gets anerobic, too shallow does not handle the water flow.

The video indicated to increase by 10% if the (separate) bed was to handle black water.

Then there are the books:

The Humanure Handbook, Joseph Jenkins
Future Fertility, Transforming Human Waste Into Human Wealth, John Beeby

If you check the earthship site, they “clean” the greywater, then use it to flush the toilet, and process the black water in outside sealed plant beds

In the book Solviva, by Anna Edey, copyright 1998, she mentions she had one low-flow toilet flush into a water tight box about the size (25 ft cube) of a small chest freezer. The box was divided in half so sewage dumped only on one side. In the chamber she put 12 cubic feet of leaf type material and 3000 earthworms. She claims that only a liquid drains out and that the sewage and food scraps added have been consumed by the worms. The liquid drains first to a shallow growing bed filled with leaves & such plus sandy topsoil and healthy plants, lined with a waterproof membrane. The end then outflows to a second bed the same as the first, then to a 20 gallon sump with a pump to a flower bed.

A “solar toilet” was tried by Mike Reynolds (Earthships), but he found it not practical. After experimenting with such, and compost toilets, he has settled back on a flush toilet which uses recycled gray water to flush, and the blackwater goes to a processing bed of plants outside the structure.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:07 pm 
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We have done a poo hole in the backyard before, but my daughter is such a priss she thinks girls can't poop outside. Apparently, she thinks I'm not a girl. 0.o

Anyway, we dug the hole out with a post hole digger about 16 inches deep. That gives you plenty of poo events before you have to fill it in. Sprinkle in sawdust or lye to keep the smell down. We didn't have either and just "borrowed" some pine shavings from the goats.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:59 pm 
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raptor wrote:

BTW a chamber pot and hole in the backyard as far away from the house as pissible should work for quite a while.


I guess your aim and flow need to be up to whatever pissible length you dig the hole huh? :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:41 pm 
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flybynight wrote:
raptor wrote:

BTW a chamber pot and hole in the backyard as far away from the house as pissible should work for quite a while.


I guess your aim and flow need to be up to whatever pissible length you dig the hole huh? :lol:



Hmmmm...

No.

You eliminate into the chamber pot.

You pour the "morning soil" into the hole and cover it up. Because flies are drawn to the waste you want the hole far away to keep flies and other such pests away from where you live.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:56 pm 
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And now for the positive. If you choose not to separate yourself from the poo then a fly can land on it and then on your cheese covered cracker.
You'll have washboard abs in less than 10 days. Dysentery: It does the body good.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:52 pm 
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use a bucket half full of dirt to start and have another bucket full of dirt, for solid wastes, or use kitty litter, litter pan, small rake and plastic bag (dispose of later, outside). For liquid wastes use a wide mouthed jar and dispose of it later/outside. Campmor sells a "lady j" funnel for female use. each flush wastes 5 gallons of water you'll need to be drinking, so have a Sawyer mini-filter (or some bleach or idodine or pool shock for water treatment, and if shtf, immediately remove the toilet handle, cause you WILL forget and flush it!

ASAP of shtf, or even looks like it MIGHT, fill the bathtub with water. Keep your water-heater
s tank flushed of sediments, and keep the threads of the drain-valve lubricated, or it will break off when you need it most! As soon as the power goes off, there will be no more pumping of water up into the water tower and people will quickly drain the pipes, so the gravity feed mechanism wont be working more than an hour or so.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:51 pm 
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If you are on a city sewer system, it may be worth the time to call the Engineering Dept and find out where you sit - height-wise, to the nearest lift station.

When I called, the guy was surprised - I was first person to call and ask. The guy even sent me the layout (drawing) for the entire system to the nearest mainline.

I don't have to worry that the access cover in the street will suddenly open and overflow - like the folks downstream from me.

The Engineer I talked with also said they (the Muni) had absolutely no plans in place for an extended power outage and result loss of lift stations/pumps/etc in the sewage system....

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:56 pm 
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TacAir wrote:
I don't have to worry that the access cover in the street will suddenly open and overflow - like the folks downstream from me.



Same here. I had a sewer backflow preventer device installed on my main sewer line after a several day power outage for the area in 2008 (Hurricane Gustav) showed me exactly where I was in the flow of things so to speak. :D

There are several kinds, they are not expensive though the labor to install them may be depending upon your sewage connection, permits, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:45 pm 
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bugging in wont work nearly as well as people fantasize that it will, guaranteed. The garbage and dead bodies will draw flies and rats, meaning fleas, meaning plague. Starving dogs will smell your food and hang around, drawing looters, The cities and towns will soon burn, when there's no water that's pumpable. Best have a dugout shelter by your local water source, get in it and stay there during daylight hours. Read your survival info on one of your kindle readers, and have solar chargers to go with them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:51 pm 
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zantra wrote:
bugging in wont work nearly as well as people fantasize that it will, guaranteed. The garbage and dead bodies will draw flies and rats, meaning fleas, meaning plague. Starving dogs will smell your food and hang around, drawing looters, The cities and towns will soon burn, when there's no water that's pumpable. Best have a dugout shelter by your local water source, get in it and stay there during daylight hours. Read your survival info on one of your kindle readers, and have solar chargers to go with them.
Are you on drugs? If not , you probably should be

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:12 pm 
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zantra wrote:
bugging in wont work nearly as well as people fantasize that it will, guaranteed. The garbage and dead bodies will draw flies and rats, meaning fleas, meaning plague. Starving dogs will smell your food and hang around, drawing looters, The cities and towns will soon burn, when there's no water that's pumpable. Best have a dugout shelter by your local water source, get in it and stay there during daylight hours. Read your survival info on one of your kindle readers, and have solar chargers to go with them.


Most bug-in scenarios are temporary emergency situations, often weather related, and work just fine. I've bugged in for two weeks after a hurricane before and I am happy to share that we had no problems with starving dogs or looters.

The better advice is to be smart about whatever situation you are in and adapt to it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:13 am 
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On a similar note, septic systems in my area have our drain fields elevated due to ground water levels. If they were under normal ground levels they would always be submerged, well probably not now since we have had real rain in six months but anyway. Our septic systems consist of three parts. The primary tank is the initial 1500 gallon tank where everything flows into and it is divided into two sections by a wall. A large initial holding area with an overflow to the secondary holding area. This one has a pipe leading down into it where in theory the fluids eventually raise up and flow in an overflow into the next tank which is I think 500 gallons. This tank once a float valve is triggered has an electric pump which pumps the mostly fluid over into the drainage field/mound.

In the case of long term power outage would it be possible to cut the pump out and use some kind of manual pump to empty it out to the drain field?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:11 pm 
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we were out for a bit less than a week.. mostly we put buckets under the guttering down pipes. then tipped the water into the back of the toilet and flushed it.

You could if you were creative make a sneaky grey water tack of some sort. Otherwise you will be carrying buckets.

This is one of the reasons you fill your bath tub during an emergency.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:20 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:54 pm 
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For apartment dwellers and others who have reasons not to dig latrines in their yards, Cleanwaste WAG bags can be used with a bucket, with a toilet, with the folding toilet seat that Cleanwaste also sells, or on their own. The powder in the bags renders the bags safe for disposal in regular trash once regular service has resumed.

As far as needing a hole in the ground to hide in goes, :roll: in my area last month we had a week-long power outage after a severe wind storm. 800,000+ people in Southeast Michigan were without power. There was no panic in the streets. Nothing got burned or looted. People did get pretty frustrated with the power company's lack of accurate public statements regarding repair times.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Towanda wrote:
For apartment dwellers and others who have reasons not to dig latrines in their yards, Cleanwaste WAG bags can be used with a bucket, with a toilet, with the folding toilet seat that Cleanwaste also sells, or on their own. The powder in the bags renders the bags safe for disposal in regular trash once regular service has resumed.

As far as needing a hole in the ground to hide in goes, :roll: in my area last month we had a week-long power outage after a severe wind storm. 800,000+ people in Southeast Michigan were without power. There was no panic in the streets. Nothing got burned or looted. People did get pretty frustrated with the power company's lack of accurate public statements regarding repair times.
It's always good when nobody freaks out. :)

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