Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by shulatt » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:09 pm

Looks like a plan :clap:
I wasn't sure about the viability of the wooden mast, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway. Being a carpenter/cabinetmaker by trade may bias me a bit on materials of choice. :crazy:


ineffableone wrote:Thanks Quazi. I will be posting more as I continue to develop the property. Hopefully it can help others who are looking to head down this path to see my successes and failures.

Thanks Shulatt for the suggestion. The wind turbine I bought is designed to be fit to a metal pole and have the power line run down inside the pole. So I am sort of locked into getting a metal pole for this. I am planning to use a mounting system that will allow for easy lowering and raising of the mast for servicing. Using 2 short poles cemented into the ground that the main mast connect to in 2 places, giving it a hinging effect to lower the mast.

Like this
Image

Though there are other options like these I could end up using instead.
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Image

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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:43 pm

shulatt wrote:Looks like a plan :clap:
I wasn't sure about the viability of the wooden mast, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway. Being a carpenter/cabinetmaker by trade may bias me a bit on materials of choice. :crazy:
No worries, considering the amount of timber on my property I consider trying to save money by going with wood I can harvest myself always a good thing to consider. For this though just not the right choice. But I am sure plenty of other things I will be using my timber for.

I am actually planning to use the timber from the property for a lot of my house building. As well as fencing, and out buildings, and anything thing else I can use the resource for. I would like to get a Norwood bandsaw mill, but might be opting for a chainsaw mill due to costs.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by aikorob » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:06 am

ineffableone wrote:
No worries, considering the amount of timber on my property I consider trying to save money by going with wood I can harvest myself always a good thing to consider. For this though just not the right choice. But I am sure plenty of other things I will be using my timber for.

I am actually planning to use the timber from the property for a lot of my house building. As well as fencing, and out buildings, and anything thing else I can use the resource for. I would like to get a Norwood bandsaw mill, but might be opting for a chainsaw mill due to costs.
when I was younger, there were a few small mills around who would cut your logs for a percentage of the lumber--course, you had to get the logs to them.

maybe somebody like this in your area: http://woodmizer.com/us/Services/Find-a-Local-Sawyer
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:26 pm

Well, didn't do a lot of video or pictures this last trip too busy working to remember to film. I found that I would have to go all the way down to Wenachee to rent a dozer to work on the road and do some leveling. Seems no one in the area rents bladed equipment. Sigh, what a pain.

I did do a video of some of the work I did carving trails and clearing brush after the fact just before heading out.



Hope folks enjoy.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by teotwaki » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:19 pm

updates? MOAR?
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:25 pm

teotwaki wrote:updates? MOAR?
Coming soon. I just got a trailer up there.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by Halfapint » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:40 am

ineffableone wrote:
teotwaki wrote:updates? MOAR?
Coming soon. I just got a trailer up there.

Whaaaaaaaaat? Trailer! Oh hell yeah! Pics or it didn't happen!
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:14 pm

Rented a skid steer and did some clearing of my property. Knocked down a lot of the thick brush and dead aspen in the aspen grove around the pond. As well as some brush clearing up in the pine forest above. Also tried to work on leveling the pad for my trailer, but yesterday I got my first real snow the stuck and it turned the ground to mush that I couldn't work with. I did get to do a little road maintenance on the road going up to my property since I had to park the trailer down at the bottom of the hill as the road was too poor to pull the trailer up. So on the way down today to return the skid steer I did some road work. Nothing major, but a little improvement to the worst of the the road.

I will be taking pics and maybe some video soon to show what I have gotten done.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by quazi » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:25 am

Looking forward to the pics and video when you have time.

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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:11 pm

Halfapint wrote:
ineffableone wrote:
teotwaki wrote:updates? MOAR?
Coming soon. I just got a trailer up there.

Whaaaaaaaaat? Trailer! Oh hell yeah! Pics or it didn't happen!
Sorry it took so long, but I got a short video tour of the trailer I took right after I got it to my brother's. I had been busy taking it pout to the property then working on the property, and I am off grid and without internet connection on my property so sitting in a coffee house uploading videos wasn't all that appealing.



I have more videos coming soon. I am in the middle of uploading them and processing them now. But figured you had waited long enough for this one.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:12 pm

OK time for a video dump. I am over at my brothers in Western WA, so have some time and internet access to upload some videos I took.

A couple of video tours of work I did with a skid steer I rented over Thanksgiving.



Now a couple videos showing the sun exposure and how micro climates are important to observe through multi seasons.



And finally a little tour of the potential build site I am considering for a home
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by Halfapint » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:52 am

Awesome update. Finally got to watch the videos. The house sight looks superb! And watching the micro climates is very smart. Looks like the house area is protected, and gets lots of sun! Keep us posted!
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:46 pm

Halfapint wrote:Awesome update. Finally got to watch the videos. The house sight looks superb! And watching the micro climates is very smart. Looks like the house area is protected, and gets lots of sun! Keep us posted!
Yes the house site seems like the best option at this point, but still need to put in a road to the top of the hill to make bringing materials up there possible. Though I want to build a road up there if I use that site or not. Just to add access to the top of that hill for other projects.

As for sun, yes it has good sun, but also that big tree will do some good blocking some summer sun too. To help keep it from getting too hot there. Though with the idea of building an underground home, I should have some good cooling effects from the earth regulating temps. And yes nice and protected area being between two rock formations.

Still lots of other potential building sites to consider and plenty of observations to take into account. Like the snows have just started to pile up over there, and I need to go back and check the place out to see where the snow drifts form, and how the snow accumulates. In spring it will also be important to observe the run off from snow melt and that might end up effecting where I build.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by Halfapint » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:02 pm

All great points, but also when you start to build and when you've finished as well as when you start landscaping lots of that stuff will change. Adding a road will affect the melt, as well as accumulation of snow.

That house location seems like it would be well suited for an underground house as well. Digging down to get a little deeper (if you can with the rocks) then covering the area up with dirt. Those 2 ridges would really help you build up the area for the covered house.

You've got lots to do. I'm envious!
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:44 pm

So with it being winter, and me wintering off my property not a lot I can do on the property itself. But I don't want to just sit idle either. So I have been working on my house design plan.

A thread at permies.com was talking about where to locate a RMH (rocket mass heater) in an Owen Geiger designed earthbag pod home. This is the 3 pod design he was looking at https://earthbagplans.wordpress.com/201 ... od-houses/ I am not planning on earthbag building, more of a wofati styled underground and earth bermed. But the earth bag wall thickness is comparable in planning to that of log posts used for wofati designs. This post reminded me of those Owen Geiger house plans though, and especially of that 3 hex design which I had already bookmarked in previous housing idea searches. I had really liked the hex designs and round designs on the site. I went and checked the rest of that site for other options. But kept coming back to that 3 pod hex design. While not exactly what I want, it was a good starting place to mod and alter for what I want. Part of really liking the hex design is it is a good compromise between round and box. I love round living spaces but let's be realistic they cause a lot of problems with how to deal with furniture and construction is more complicated. While boxes are easy to build and add furniture they just don't feel organic and happy to me. But a hex has a great compromise of benefits of both. Not to mention I already have a hex tent, so have some experience with hex living and I sort of like the idea of a house matching my tent.

For those who don't want to visit the link here is the Owen Geiger 3 hex pod design that I used as a starting point.

Image

So after some gimp reworking of the original 3 pod design, I put together a 1st draft idea of what I am thinking of doing. There are still some alterations and finessing I would want to do, but this helps give a rough idea of what I am sort of thinking. Also since I am a single guy, I really wont need the extra 2 bedrooms, however since I am burying my home, leaving room for expansion seems like a good idea. If at some point I do meet someone to join me in my journey, extra space can be good. As well as I could likely use the space to house guests, and in the more short term not even finish off the interior of that section and use it as a large indoor work space.

Image

You might notice I have a rather large pantry added on to the design. This was intentional as I really want to have a very large pantry. I am not sure about the door leading outside, the whole thing came accidentally by mirroring the two sides, but I sort of like the concept of being able to get into the pantry from both inside and outside. This could really be beneficial, though there are some negative issues too, like air leaking, pest access, security, etc. I will have to weigh the idea as I progress.

I was definitely going to make sure I had an entry with a "air lock" mud room. I really don't understand why people still design homes that don't have this set up, especially in areas were it gets either really hot or cold (the Okanogan does both). It has been around long enough that the benefits are well known. I might even try figuring a way to add this sort of feature to at least one main door in the south face, since I can see a need for going in and out that direction regularly.

I had definitely also wanted to incorporate greenhouses into the house design. For decades I have been tinkering with a design with greenhouse spokes radiating out from a central hub. So I stretched the connections of the hex pods, to give space for greenhouses. I made them situated slightly different for either side, as a way to test how I liked the different positions, but sort of think the asymmetric layout there might be beneficial for general access.

As I mentioned there is still plenty more planning and likely lots of redesigning. I still haven't placed any RMH for example. Which will be rather important since it takes up plenty of space as well as being underground I will need to situate the chimney. Though might opt for the wofati idea of going up and out the south facing wall. I also found BroAudio's Walker Wood Fired Masonry Cook Stove. And really like this idea for possibly building as a wood cook stove for my place. I have been lusting after the Kitchen Queen wood cook stove for awhile, but building my own wood cook stove has some great perks. Including the possibility of making it hex shaped to match the hex theme of the house.

Here is an video intro to the stove design, and some links to images and descriptions, about the core itself http://walkerstoves.com/walker-riser-le ... -core.html and about the stove http://walkerstoves.com/walker-brick-cook-stove.html



Hope folks enjoy.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by LowKey » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:32 am

Here are a couple of links to other masonry cook stove builds.
http://www.pyromasse.ca/articles/csconseq_e.html
http://www.pyromasse.ca/articles/CCSeq_e.html
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:56 pm

LowKey wrote:Here are a couple of links to other masonry cook stove builds.
Thanks, the sentiment of sharing other examples is appreciated.

However the type of masonry stove that Walker did is a very special type of new design. He is combining rocket mass heater tech and masonry stoves into a new special type of stove. His design burns up all the wood gas and creosote. Which is why he can have a black oven without any smoke coming out of the oven when opening the door. By the time the "smoke" gets to the oven it is no longer what we think of as smoke, just a hot exhaust. This rocket effect makes the stove/oven super efficient and very low emission.

I do plan to search masonry stove builds to see if there are some hex shaped ones that can give me inspiration to build a Walker core into to.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by Halfapint » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:40 am

That video was awesome! I've been playing with some rocket stoves and trying to work on the exhaust. Not nearly that good but I also don't have super dry wood to start. But that's really cool something to research.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:43 am

Halfapint wrote:That video was awesome! I've been playing with some rocket stoves and trying to work on the exhaust. Not nearly that good but I also don't have super dry wood to start. But that's really cool something to research.
Yes Matt Walker is doing some amazing experimentation and designing. It isn't just the dry wood. He points out the really light insulation kiln bricks rather than the heavy flame proof bricks are the key. The heavier bricks soak up the heat of the fire, while the light ones insulate against it. This means the light bricks keep more heat in the fire box to burn off the wood gas and other stuff. This is a huge difference from standard rocket stove thinking. Walker suggest the light brick be used for as far as the combustion is. After that it doesn't matter anymore which bricks you use.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:33 pm

BTW, I am now working on the house plans with the 3D modeling program Sketchup. I downloaded the program and have been teaching myself (with the aid of some tutorial videos) by doing multiple build versions of the house. I am on build 5 now. And have learned a lot of what Sketchup can do (though still lots more to learn) and I am getting closer to having a good basic floorplan that I can use as a starting point to test other practice builds off off.

And of course I have added some new stuff, having seen opportunity to add in some covered work space/storage/garage I added 2 extra hex pods off the pantry and mud room. Moving the doors to exit out into the new hex areas rather than straight out. Now if this will stay, not sure. Every little added detail raises the amount of materials, the time to build, and final cost. But covered work space can be a very important feature, and since I am building underground I really do have to try and think of as much as possible ahead of time and build it in the beginning, since digging things up and adding on is a huge pain.

Hopefully I will have some Sketchup plans to share in the near future, which will really help people see the vision I have in my head.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by DanielHumphreys » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:04 pm

Very cool. Tagging for interest.
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by Norwegian » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:50 pm

I designed the extension on my parents vacation home in france with scetchup a few years ago, including drawing in the old part of the house to draw of of. made a full drawing of the house with everything, then printed floor plans, façades and stuff from that for the application for building permits, and the contractor built it almost entirely from the same prints. I'm not sure every contractor would, this one basically went bankrupt trying to finish this job but the end result was really good and fit perfectly with the older part of the house and the French "style" in general. Fantastic program for that sort of stuff, and very helpful in getting the permits. A couple of things I learned:

Components: make everything as components! In your case each pod, exterior and interior walls, the connection bits, fireplaces, furniture, basically everything should be components and components inside components. I had to go back and redo almost everything several times when I moved something and it screwed up a bunch of other stuff, or just wanted to try something different and had to modify an existing drawing. Making everything as components also makes it really easy to play around with, you can move whole rooms around, adjust wall placement, try furniture in different places and so on...

Save everything as a new versions all the time, and number them so you can go back if something gets messed up. I found it was very easy to accidentally get measurements wrong by very small amounts, but even a few millimetres can screw everything up later. Components also help a lot here.

The silhouette dude! That silhouette of a person that is in there when you start is very useful! Move him around, put him in rooms, between furniture and everywhere to check that everything works. He is a great help in keeping the scale of everything relatable, and seeing how things will work in real life.

Well, that's what I can come up with right now anyway. Good luck with the project, I'm really looking forward to it! You have a lot of the same basic goals I have, except you are doing everything completely different than I would, which is really interesting to see.

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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:23 pm

Thanks some good advice on using Sketchup. I haven't had the need yet to do rooms as components. Since I have left everything as a floor plan and been placing furniture components to fine tune the layout. Though I have just gotten started on extruding the main posts. You mentioning a millimeter off can mess stuff up, well I had to go back an replace several posts as they were messed up from lines just a little off. So yep I understand that one. There are many places where stuff is just a hair off. But at this point I am pressing on rather than going back and fixing everything down to the smallest amount.

I do like the idea of making rooms components, I will have to try that. I have been saving lots, and have multiple different saves. Including a blank floor plan with the most recent changes on it.

Thanks for the advice and tips. I still have a long ways to go, but this program is making designing this a lot easier.
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ineffableone
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Re: Homestead land in the WA Okanogan

Post by ineffableone » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:51 am

So here is the current Sketchup of my house design

Image

Sketchup has really been helping to get a clear idea of scale and how to arrange things. It has saved me plenty of times on figuring out better ways to do this design. As you can see I have further modded the design, changing things a bit. I am sure I will still change plenty more before the final design but figured I would share what I have so far.
"Once a man has seen society's black underbelly, he can never turn his back on it. Never pretend, like you do, that it doesn't exist"

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with ME!"


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