Advice on instant homestead shelter

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Halfapint
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by Halfapint » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:09 pm

If you want to build something I'd say build a hexayurt. They are pretty cheap and you can build it in a couple hours solo, or even faster with some people. They don't have a lot of insulation but you can add that yourself as you go or after its built. Using some tape you can seal the cracks and then paint over it to protect it.

I've seen ones that had the inside dug out to provide more room to stand around and you can dig the inside into furniture and then spray concrete to cement it in. I built a small one at my grandparents for fun a few years ago, my grandpa used it as a mini kiln to dry wood he planned to use on projects. It since been torn down and the plywood used for other things but its simple enough to build.

Although you cant beat the sheer cheapness and ease of use that comes with a camper/trailer. Park it, and forget it. You've got a biffy that you can use and have dump into a septic tank, and a ready made kitchen with a water reservoir and pump so you don't have to haul water and hand pump it.
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by ineffableone » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:22 pm

Halfapint wrote:Although you cant beat the sheer cheapness and ease of use that comes with a camper/trailer. Park it, and forget it. You've got a biffy that you can use and have dump into a septic tank, and a ready made kitchen with a water reservoir and pump so you don't have to haul water and hand pump it.
Yep it is looking like a travel trailer will likely be the option, it just has the most bang for buck. Built in kitchen, bathroom, water storage, electric that can easily have solar hooked up to, etc....

As I mentioned part of the reason for the thread was to see if there might be options I had not come across yet. But so far there seems little out there that can compete with a used travel trailer or RV in terms of price and practical amenities.

I would plan on swapping out the RV toilet with a composting toilet so I wouldn't need to worry about the black water tank emptying. Dealing with grey water becomes a much easier task that I could handle on site, and I could tote water in to refill the freshwater tank if I don't end up finding a spring on the land to get water from, and before getting a well dug.
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Halfapint
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by Halfapint » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:03 pm

ineffableone wrote:I would plan on swapping out the RV toilet with a composting toilet so I wouldn't need to worry about the black water tank emptying. Dealing with grey water becomes a much easier task that I could handle on site, and I could tote water in to refill the freshwater tank if I don't end up finding a spring on the land to get water from, and before getting a well dug.
Good points, composting toilet is and easy swap, and you can then use the area that held the old tank could be used to house more batteries for the solar set up or as an extra water tank for your sink. Grey water is easy to deal with have a kiddie pool with some plants that help filter the water and you can use it for crops.

The biggest problem with the RV or whatever you get will be making sure it is weatherproof. I've seen to many people get their stuff soaking wet because the seal on the roof failed. So investing in a good sealer for the roof and do that right off the bat, also investing in a Costco tarp canopy would be good. Only a couple hundred bucks but having that to protect your rig from the elements is a great investment. I would say though make sure you get some rebar or something to pound into the ground to keep it from flying away. They do LOVE to float away in wind storms, I used 12" nails and they really didn't do much, I'm thinking a couple foot chunks of rebar pounded into the ground and lashed to the poles would work well.
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by ineffableone » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:13 pm

Halfapint wrote:
ineffableone wrote:I would plan on swapping out the RV toilet with a composting toilet so I wouldn't need to worry about the black water tank emptying. Dealing with grey water becomes a much easier task that I could handle on site, and I could tote water in to refill the freshwater tank if I don't end up finding a spring on the land to get water from, and before getting a well dug.
Good points, composting toilet is and easy swap, and you can then use the area that held the old tank could be used to house more batteries for the solar set up or as an extra water tank for your sink. Grey water is easy to deal with have a kiddie pool with some plants that help filter the water and you can use it for crops.

The biggest problem with the RV or whatever you get will be making sure it is weatherproof. I've seen to many people get their stuff soaking wet because the seal on the roof failed. So investing in a good sealer for the roof and do that right off the bat, also investing in a Costco tarp canopy would be good. Only a couple hundred bucks but having that to protect your rig from the elements is a great investment. I would say though make sure you get some rebar or something to pound into the ground to keep it from flying away. They do LOVE to float away in wind storms, I used 12" nails and they really didn't do much, I'm thinking a couple foot chunks of rebar pounded into the ground and lashed to the poles would work well.
Yep I already found Shelterlogic instant garages as the most likely way to deal with keeping a travel trailer weather proof. They run from $300-$1000 depending on the size but all have a built in ratchet strap system to tighten down the tarp. Youtuber and blogger Purelivingforlife is doing the whole travel trailer homesteading thing in Idaho and I discovered them while researching the idea. They bought a Shelterlogic garage in a box and it got through a massive windstorm last year with just getting shifted a little (at first they thought it was a lot worse than it was, and later realized how bad others in their area had gotten hit). I would likely do something a lot like their set up of attaching the garage to frame that raised it up a little extra to get just a little more clearance as well as being able to add a small entry way deck to help leave dirt and grime outside the trailer. A good view of their set up here.
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by NamelessStain » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:38 am

I agree if this is going to be a temporary item, I'd consider a popup trailer camper. Ability to resell and recover some of your money vs a yurt I would believe you would not get as high a percentage back.

Plus you can always buy a used one for dirt cheap such as:
http://www.campingworld.com/rvsales/pop ... le/507857/

Yes, it is in Iowa, but you can look closer to you for a deal.
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:08 pm

Allow me to chime in.

Washington, but which side of the Cascades, wet side or dry side?

Also, how do you feel about plumbing?

If you want a flush toilet, you are boned, but a camp toilet or an outhouse, now you have a lot of flexibility. Also pee into a gallon jug so you don't have to get out of bed at night and you are make some strong fertilizer.

Now onto the shelter. I offer your two choices of strong TEMPORARY shelter.

Pallet Home

Image
Power drill and nail gun should do the trick. You could slide insulation batts between the pallet slats and you could be in good shape.

Here is information about the design. http://www.viralnova.com/build-a-pallet-house/
And a couple of movies





The second choice is straw bales. I'm a big advocate of straw bales as permanent shelter, but some pallets to keep the bales off the ground and some tar paper and scrap lumber you would have a temporary shelter, fast and cheap. I can't find the image online from the book, The Straw Bale House bu Steen, Steen and Bainbridge, but imagine you build a quick floor using pallets like in the previous video, drape the edges with tar paper, the stack the straw bale walls up on the pallet, pinning them along tghe way, with wooden stakes. Drape the top of the bale walls with more tar paper and make a roof using a tarp and wooden staves.

Here is a movie. This shelter was built in about 4 hours.




http://www.naturalbuildingblog.com/temporary-shelter/

Here are a series of straw bale videos by a self described prepper.
[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... dwHbGYSABY[/YouTube]
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by ineffableone » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:55 pm

Evan the Diplomat wrote:Allow me to chime in.

Washington, but which side of the Cascades, wet side or dry side?

Also, how do you feel about plumbing?

If you want a flush toilet, you are boned, but a camp toilet or an outhouse, now you have a lot of flexibility. Also pee into a gallon jug so you don't have to get out of bed at night and you are make some strong fertilizer.

Now onto the shelter. I offer your two choices of strong TEMPORARY shelter.

Pallet Home

Image
Power drill and nail gun should do the trick. You could slide insulation batts between the pallet slats and you could be in good shape.
LOL, I was wondering if or when some one would ask which side of the Cascades. I am looking for land over on the Eastern side of the Cascades. Which means less rain fall, but also warmer summers and colder winters. I am also looking at land in the 2,000-3,000' elevation range.

Another good question, toilet. No I am not worried bout flush toilets I actually sort of dislike them personally. I will be opting for a compost toilet, either the DIY bucket and sawdust, or if the health dept insists I will buy an approved composting toilet. I do know the area allows outhouses if there is no well, but once you get a well you aren't allowed an outhouse. Once a well in installed you either have to have a septic system or use a composting toilet for your black waste. Even living in a house with a flush toilet now, I go outside and pee in the yard more than use the toilet for that.

Pallet houses might be an option. Though I do know they take a lot of work to do. As a kid my friends and I built a lot of forts from pallets, some worthy to almost to call livable. But they take a lot of work prepping, sorting, and stripping for parts. Not to say it isn't doable. A pallet cabin would be something quite possible, just not all that instant. Definitely take more than a weekend, might be possible to get done in less than a week though if I was well organized and had a good source of pallets near by. Still just a shell of a building, but considering pallets can be had for just the cost of gas to haul them away it makes it a very cheap house shell being that the costs would be minimal (hardware to secure pallets together, roofing, doors, windows, some insulation) leaving a lot of $$$ to spend on the other things needed to out fit the cabin. Stove, fridge, etc.
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by ineffableone » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:12 pm

Evan the Diplomat wrote:
The second choice is straw bales. I'm a big advocate of straw bales as permanent shelter, but some pallets to keep the bales off the ground and some tar paper and scrap lumber you would have a temporary shelter, fast and cheap. I can't find the image online from the book, The Straw Bale House bu Steen, Steen and Bainbridge, but imagine you build a quick floor using pallets like in the previous video, drape the edges with tar paper, the stack the straw bale walls up on the pallet, pinning them along tghe way, with wooden stakes. Drape the top of the bale walls with more tar paper and make a roof using a tarp and wooden staves.

Here is a movie. This shelter was built in about 4 hours.
Yep I am an advocate of strawbale for permanent shelters too.

I have to say that 4 hr temp strawbale shelter video was interesting. Though I wouldn't expect to have a team of folks to help me like they did. So something like that would take me a bit longer than 4 hrs. I was wondering how they were going to do a roof and was sort of surprised they just went with two tarps with garbage bags of straw in between. Definitely the week place in their design, but would be easy enough to make a better roof.

Straw bales aren't a free building material like pallets though. Still an idea worth looking at, I would have to price out bales and see how fast they would add up to see how big I might be able to go with them.
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by zero11010 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:21 pm

ineffableone wrote:Even living in a house with a flush toilet now, I go outside and pee in the yard more than use the toilet for that.
I think we all just learned a lot.



You know, that's a lot harder to do in the city.
But, NOT impossible.

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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by ineffableone » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:30 pm

LOL, just an fyi I am not urban, I do have a yard that is nicely fenced in along with a large wooded back yard. I am not peeing in view of people walking by or taking pictures.
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Re: Advice on instant homestead shelter

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:25 pm

ineffableone wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:
The second choice is straw bales. I'm a big advocate of straw bales as permanent shelter, but some pallets to keep the bales off the ground and some tar paper and scrap lumber you would have a temporary shelter, fast and cheap. I can't find the image online from the book, The Straw Bale House bu Steen, Steen and Bainbridge, but imagine you build a quick floor using pallets like in the previous video, drape the edges with tar paper, the stack the straw bale walls up on the pallet, pinning them along tghe way, with wooden stakes. Drape the top of the bale walls with more tar paper and make a roof using a tarp and wooden staves.

Here is a movie. This shelter was built in about 4 hours.
Yep I am an advocate of strawbale for permanent shelters too.

I have to say that 4 hr temp strawbale shelter video was interesting. Though I wouldn't expect to have a team of folks to help me like they did. So something like that would take me a bit longer than 4 hrs. I was wondering how they were going to do a roof and was sort of surprised they just went with two tarps with garbage bags of straw in between. Definitely the week place in their design, but would be easy enough to make a better roof.

Straw bales aren't a free building material like pallets though. Still an idea worth looking at, I would have to price out bales and see how fast they would add up to see how big I might be able to go with them.
If you post a few notices on permaculture blogs and through Habitat For Humanity, you could easily muster a work crew of six or more. It helps if you provide lunch and beer.

You can run a ladder bond beam across the top and attach a light weight hipped roof, insulate your "attic" with garbage bags full of straw.

I found this video by the design firm that did the pallet house. Lots of good information.

Priests and cannibals, prehistoric animals
Everybody happy as the dead come home

Big black nemesis, parthenogenesis
No-one move a muscle as the dead come home

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