Installing new electrical

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Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:56 pm

Hey all

Looking for a bit of help. I want to add electrical to my secondary garage. Currently, I have to run in two extension cords from outside - one for light, the other for the sprinkler system. They're absolutely terrible and I want them gone.

I am going to run electrical from the main garage through rafters in the main garage ceiling and then out the shared wall to a junction box I'll install out in the extension garage.

Since I'm renting I've asked permission from the landlord, and want to have a licensed electrician do the connection at the breaker box so that the work is licensed, insured & warranted. But I'll do all the grunt work - drilling, drywall opening/repairing plus running the cabling etc.

Goal is to have two 20-amp circuits in the extension with another new 20 amp circuit run for additional outlet(s) in the main garage.

What I need is an understanding of Texas electrical code.

When the romex is inside the finished wall, that's easy - having it secured to the joists & wall studs is pretty straightforward. But, when I punch through the extension shared wall what is required? I believe I need to use conduit from within the wall going "outside" at that point. For the wall that is perpendicular to the "exterior" one I plan to feed through from the breaker box - that's easy since it's a finished wall. But going outside I may need to pierce brick and not sure where I will mount the junction box quite yet. But, it's all still "inside" garage since the extension is enclosed like a normal garage is. Hence I don't know precisely what is required where.

The junction box in the extension will *probably* be in the rafters and I'll run conduit to the additional outlets in the extension which has open stud walls on one side, dropping them wherever I need them.

What do I need to be within code? All the outlets will have proper boxes. No GFCI unless I need it.

The outlets in the extension are for basic power tools, compressor, shop lights, fan, portable shop vac, etc. Biggest draw I imagine I'd have is a cement mixer or a beefy home use power tool - circular saw or similar.

Biggest item in the main garage will be a refrig which is also currently using a big fat insulated extension cord.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by JeeperCreeper » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:53 pm

Will there be beer in the fridge?? .....Wait, what did you ask about again???
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by Stercutus » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:30 am

Texas Code is the same as the NEC. Locally your standards may be higher. Most large cities and counties have their own codes. So IDK.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by OmahaOutdoors » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:41 am

Sorry that this isn't of any direct help, but you might want to check out a local forum for electrical stuff specifically, or even just a national one. Either way, you are probably more likely to find someone. On another note, it sounds like you have a good plan. Save some money by doing the basics yourself and leave the potential liability to a licensed professional.

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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by RogerK » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:00 pm

Follow the current NEC. The inspectors have to.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by DarkAxel » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:00 pm

First, I'd recommend going to your local library and checking out an updated copy of the National Electric Code.
Then I suggest you visit a local government office to see if there are local codes you need to comply with.

Texas adopted the NEC as its state code, so familiarize yourself with it.

As for your conduit question: Any wiring that is not enclosed in a finished wall or ceiling has to be in conduit or a product like Wiremold.

ETA: When you are at the local government office, ask them if permits are required locally to do the work. If so, get your landlord to check the permit history on the house. It should give you an idea of when the current wiring was installed. This is important, because if you start doing electrical work and find something that doesn't meet code (like knob and tube wiring, common in older homes), it will have to be fixed.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by wagdhead » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:28 am

When we start a project in a new jurisdiction, we always call the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction), to see what local modifications have been made to the national codes. Contrary to what you may think, many jurisdictions often lessen the national code restrictions. Besides the obvious, do you need a permit/inspection on the electrical work, what are the requirements for your wall penetrations?
Do they need to be fire caulked around the conduit, if so what is approved method, and does that need to be inspected as well?

Also, does adding electrical to the shed, change the occupational classification of the structure? This can be another whole can of worms, that you land lord needs to look into with his insurance company.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:06 am

I looked up NEC on the Internet and really did not find anything useful. Will hit the library tomorrow.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by azrancher » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:37 pm

Romex in conduit is a problem, which is why electricians run single wires of white, black, green/bare.

The NEC in all their wisdom considers a romex cable for fill factor as the widest dimension of the romex, I know, I know that doesn't make sense, but who ever said the NEC made sense. I'm not sure how many runs from your garage you are planning to make, 2? If so you probably need 1" EMT/PVC for the conduit.

I would run one circuit from your garage (if it has a breaker box) to the second garage to a separate sub-breaker panel.

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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:10 pm

I put the potential code issues over into the landlord's court.

That said, speaking with the electrical guy @ Lowes, he said it sounds & looks like we could do almost all of this without conduit since it is from one interior garage area to another interior garage area. The only part that he was questionable on was the portion of the run that was on the former exterior brick wall up to the rafters.

We might need to have that portion in conduit, until it is up in the rafters and otherwise in places that would be eventually closed in by drywall. That portion of the run is the only area that would not be within a wall or above the ceiling.

That said, the final connections would be made by an electrician, so we are going to get a quote involving my labor + electrican and another with just the electrician.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by grennels » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:04 pm

Why not run it underground?
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:31 pm

Thru concrete is not a good option. Far more work & expense.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by DarkAxel » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:15 am

I'm trying to picture what you want to do and I'm having a hard time doing it.

So you are going up inside the wall from the breaker box in the garage through the ceiling, right? Since you mention having a brick wall you have to go through, I'm guessing that means in the attic area, right? If you have a finished ceiling in the second garage, you won't need conduit if you run the wire to a wall that you can close back up. Just open up the walls where you want your outlets, check to make sure you won't drill through anything important, and drill a hole up through the framing into the attic area. Run your wire down through those into the outlets and close the walls back up.

ETA: If you have the space in the breaker box, you can just get two breakers put in there and run two circuits into the other garage.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:21 am

I will post photos tomorrow.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:05 am

Here it is.

Imagegarage2-electrical-A by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass, on Flickr

The blue square is roughly where I believe the electrical can punch through the wall from the primary garage. The wire would have been inside a wall or ceiling up to that point. However once we get through to the 2nd garage I believe I need conduit at least until I get to the rafters and maybe also on that support you see on the left.

That support goes from the floor to peak of the roof for the garage.

Going down that support leads to the floor from where it appears to end in the photo, but right where the blue line stops is the underside of the attic which you can see is where we just store boxes. I plan to run wire through the attic floor joists to go along that wall. I also plan to run across the attic joist to get to the other side of the garage, which is the exterior-most wall of the garage where I will put more outlets. So I plan to have outlets along both long walls of the garage.

I could just go straight from the blue square to the left but then I have to deal with lots of 90 degree angles in a short distance, which would be a pain both for the wire and any hard conduit.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by DarkAxel » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:34 pm

OK. I see. If your AO is like mine, you can get away with not having the wire in conduit if it is secured overhead , but when it starts coming down the wall it needs conduit. You should be able to get flexible plastic conduit that you can secure to the wall with straps and screws.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:46 pm

Landlord is getting an electrician quote to compare their rate for all the work vs me doing the grunt work and electrician finishing it off. We'll see how this goes.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:21 pm

Landlord finally got a couple electricians to come provide a quote. They'll be here the next two evenings to get an on-site look at what we want to do.

Couldn't believe it - the first THREE electricians I found (all highly rated on Yelp) totally flaked. Well, one declined the work saying it was a lot more work that he usually tackles. I respect him for it, but the other two were just not professional in my opinion.

Glad the homeowner was also looking for electricians. I'll know soon when I can expect to have power out there instead of running extension cords.
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Re: Installing new electrical

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:27 pm

I thoroughly neglected to post an update here.

The electrician came about two months ago. He ran conduit from the breaker panel across the top of the walls over to where the refrig was on one side of the garage. That dropped a dedicated outlet on that wall for the frig. Also added an outlet on the other wall shared from inside the house, as well as a light inside the under-stair closet.

Behind the refrigerator, he punched through the drywall & formerly exterior brick, then ran two sets of conduit throughout the double-length single-wide garage. That gave me 4 pairs of outlets - 2 on each wall.

He also added an overhead light in the rear of the garage, where the attic floor served as the overhead mount. And he added an light outside the back door, both lights switched right inside that door.

Main Garage
Imagehttps://flic.kr/p/Gown5E

Workshop area
Imagehttps://flic.kr/p/FvxtoH
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