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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:39 pm 
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I'm scouring PALS webbing gear threads for ideas and advice on how to set up pouches on your person so you aren't a raging klutz who can't move and/or get to any of your high-speed low-drag super-invisible camo crap.

I saw one picture that really interested me, a guy had on a vest (or possibly a plate carrier - I have a vest), and a battle belt under it with pouches that don't extend too far above or below the padded/webbed area of the belt. My vest sits high enough (comfortably and functionally) that I think I could fit a belt the same way, and it would give me real estate to better load my torso while allowing freedom of movement, and options for partially equipping gear as need calls for it.

As it stands now, I think my vest is overpacked when I look at other vests. I have mag pouches down in front that aren't impeded by anything above, but I do have pouches on my upper chest that make me feel like a walking barrel. They don't get in my way, but I feel a little like I'm wearing a bomb suit.

I put the pouches high because I didn't want anything in the way of my sidearm and mags for it that are on my hips. Otherwise, I would be free to move some gear to low under my arms, but then that weapon could be difficult to draw and reload.

I could fit my sidearm and mags on the belt which would be appealing (and be a shit-ton easier to don and doff than high droplegs), and maybe the med kit too (as long as I can see it easily if I need to grab something out of it), but also some admin-category nonsense could be relegated under my rifle mags in front or even towards the back as it doesn't need to be easy to grab fast like a reload.

Is this a dumb idea? Should I go more towards extension panels on the vest, or just learn to lay out my web gear less like a retard, so I have less discrete pieces to put on and take off?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:03 pm 
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I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're asking. If you're trying to get your gear comfortably distributed, then here is what I suggest.

Keep it simple and minimalist. Don't run around with 1000 rounds of 5.56 (unless you have a SAW, no need for a dozen pistol mags). I go with 8 rifle mags (plus 1 in rifle) and 7 for a 1911, 4 for a Glock. A good multi-tool, flashlight and water and you should be good to go for most stuff.
A MOLLE belt can be a great thing to have, I use mine for my pistol, pistol mags, 2 rifle mags, flashlight, strobe and IFAC. Helps keep my PC clean and organized for my rifle. I keep 6 rifle mags on my vest and my Camelbak or a water bottle pouch.

If it feels top heavy and uncomfortable, it probably is. While discomfort and body armor often go hand in hand, it should fit well and not bounce around, or make you feel horribly off balanced.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:15 pm 
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"Mission drives the Gear train"

Look at your every day carry set up. Where your pistol and pistol mags go. Think of a molle/battle belt as an extended or upgraded version of that. Picture on your EDC where rifle mags would go. Where your mult-tool would go. Where your IFAK/Blowout Kit would go, dump pouch if you need it. That will be your 'first line gear'

The idea is to keep the same set up you're used to carrying every single day, just tacking on a little more as you need it

A chest rig/armor should supplement your 'first line' belt. Do you expect to need more rifle mags? More pistol mags? Maybe you'll need a water carrier. Maybe you want to protect your squishy bits with armor.

No pistola because its out for warranty work, but directly behind that holster is my multitool pouch:

Image

And the molle belt 'upgrade'

Image

Spare EDC Reload:

Image

Molle upgrade:

Image

As you see everything pretty much stays in the exact same place as the previous iteration...just a little more tacked on for when the situation calls for it

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Unorthodox wrote:
Image

^Your rifle mags are backwards.^

As far as gear systems go, I agree that it makes the most sense to arrange things in common places. If you are used to reaching for your pistol at 3 or 4 o'clock on your belt, keep that placement across all your other sets of gear. This won't always work out, especially for specialized rigs, but the more minimalist your rig, the less it will interfere with other stuff and activities.

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I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:22 pm 
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I wasn't clear, I didn't realize. I'm asking if a battle belt is clown shoes to add on to a kit that is based on a vest. By your answers, I guess it's a lot more common than I imagined. I had the idea that a vest was a complete system and adding a belt with gear pouches was like building a car with two engines, until I saw it in a picture and it looked brilliant to me.

It's my long-term plan to relocate, but for now, no carry licenses in my state. I wanted to have my sidearm on the hip because I want to get used to it being in that location so I don't have to try to train for two different loadouts, as you recommend. I like the belt and suspenders as a base layer with the vest added as necessity dictates. Now, I tend to wear cargo pants with suspenders as my EDC, but that can involve non-survival things I need always at hand like my phone and work gloves (arguably useful, but not specifically bugout-related). As a battle belt will be new ground for me, I'll have to find out what fits my frame and style of operation.

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crypto wrote:
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Kutter_0311 wrote:
^Your rifle mags are backwards.^


No, they are not. I draw my pistol mags by indexing the round with my finger.

I draw my rifle mags in a beer can grip, which require the rounds to be facing the rear.

Edit to illustrate:

Pistol:

Image

Rifle:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:20 pm 
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I cannot stand indexing rifle magazines.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Unorthodox wrote:
Kutter_0311 wrote:
^Your rifle mags are backwards.^

No, they are not.

Image

I thought about that after I posted, and it still seams awkward, unless you run an AK...

Hey, if it works for you, run it. I always went with the sandwich grip.

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TravisM.1 wrote:
If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:
I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:05 pm 
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That's pretty much the standard way AR mags are run, Kutter. Beer can grip is probably the most common technique by far, indexing is less common but some people like it.

EDIT: http://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer#ph ... 4287798514

Kyle Lamb, shown as example.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Sledgecrowbar wrote:
I wasn't clear, I didn't realize. I'm asking if a battle belt is clown shoes to add on to a kit that is based on a vest. By your answers, I guess it's a lot more common than I imagined. I had the idea that a vest was a complete system and adding a belt with gear pouches was like building a car with two engines, until I saw it in a picture and it looked brilliant to me.

It's my long-term plan to relocate, but for now, no carry licenses in my state. I wanted to have my sidearm on the hip because I want to get used to it being in that location so I don't have to try to train for two different loadouts, as you recommend. I like the belt and suspenders as a base layer with the vest added as necessity dictates. Now, I tend to wear cargo pants with suspenders as my EDC, but that can involve non-survival things I need always at hand like my phone and work gloves (arguably useful, but not specifically bugout-related). As a battle belt will be new ground for me, I'll have to find out what fits my frame and style of operation.


You may have been clear, it very well could be that I'm mildly retarded, ha ha.

I normally see molle or battle belts used by guys (or gals) using plate carriers, rather than full vests. A full on vest like the IBA has enough molle real estate to hang pretty much whatever you want on it. Plate carriers often have a good deal less area to do the same. So with a vest, a molle belt may be unnecessary or even uncomfortable. Not necessarily clown shoes, but may not be needed.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Here's how I run my battle belt. This is focused more towards range use, because I can just throw it on and roll:

Image

Battle belt w/ plate carrier. When I run a plate carrier w/ battle belt, the plate carrier (PALS-wise) is carrying hydration and a single row combo of rilfe and pistol mags to supplement the belt gear. The clippy holster is just there because it is cool (and it gives me a way to drive and easily access a firearm :awesome:, the belt holster is my primary). Mall-ninja worthy:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Omega Man, for the sakes of all the Saints above and my own, please tell us where those suspenders came from :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:51 pm 
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Question: If you are going as far as chest rigging a pistol, why not up angle it and raise it to the top bands of the plate carrier?

I never see it done, but its a hell of a lot more safe for you and those immediately around you if the barrel is pointed 270 and is riding about 2 inches above where a policeman might put a badge. Same place you would seat a shotgun or rifle.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:00 pm 
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Bunni wrote:
Question: If you are going as far as chest rigging a pistol, why not up angle it and raise it to the top bands of the plate carrier?

I never see it done, but its a hell of a lot more safe for you and those immediately around you if the barrel is pointed 270 and is riding about 2 inches above where a policeman might put a badge. Same place you would seat a shotgun or rifle.


I have seen pistols on vests right over the sternum, probably a good choice for mounted duty as it's both easier to get to and more comfortable than on the hip when seated in a vehicle.

I'll theorize some other possibilities, but this is all just off the top of my head.

It could be because it's out of the way for guys who have to carry but don't go to their sidearm if they can help it, or prefer to carry something else on their hip more than that.

If you train to go for your sidearm only when falling back on it from your longarm, your hands are up high already, so it really depends on your preference for training. I'd like to have my sidearm in the same place on my web gear as it would be for CC so that when I instinctively draw, it's there.

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crypto wrote:
No honest man needs to staple more than 10 pages.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:34 pm 
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hotlead wrote:
Omega Man, for the sakes of all the Saints above and my own, please tell us where those suspenders came from :shock:


Emdom. They make kick-ass gear. Their stuff is getting hard to find, try their website or SKD.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:34 pm 
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I like Emdom's stuff, and the prices are in line with other brands.

I had kind of settled on HSGI's webbing belt because it got so many recommendations (and it has the third line of webbing in the middle - more options for placing gear at just the right height), but I just picked up a TAG belt for $23 shipped, so I figured I'd try the belt idea without laying out much to start. Thinking I'm gonna go with some home-made suspenders from Strapworks as I needed to order some other stuff from them anyway, maybe make a nicer belt while I'm at it.

I really need to figure out what to move to the belt now. The pistol and mags are the only definite, I have binocs on a short tether on my vest, with eyepro and headlamp nearby, light would be good for first-line gear but the rest can probably stay. The IFAK will likely go to the belt as I couldn't make it comfortable anywhere on the vest, not sure about my dump pouches, but as catch-alls they'd be good, towards the back. Folding knife and multi-tool would be good to never be without, either. Now I'm thinking I'll run out of space on the belt, and all that's left on the vest is hydration and rifle mags.

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Braxton wrote:
Well my days of not taking ZS seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

Brotherbadger wrote:
crypto wrote:
No honest man needs to staple more than 10 pages.

Just get a two ring binder. It's perfect for close range paper holding, and it won't go through drywall. Not to mention the sound of you opening and closing it will make the paper automatically fall in line.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:00 am 
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Bunni wrote:
Question: If you are going as far as chest rigging a pistol, why not up angle it and raise it to the top bands of the plate carrier?

I never see it done, but its a hell of a lot more safe for you and those immediately around you if the barrel is pointed 270 and is riding about 2 inches above where a policeman might put a badge. Same place you would seat a shotgun or rifle.


Same reason you don't mount a knife 'up side down'

Gravity isn't your friend and if you fail to seat something, or a retention mech fails you do not want to have gravity working against you.

Also not a fan of anything that goes boom or is sharp up pointed toward my face or someone else's face (unless that's the intention)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:07 am 
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Unorthodox wrote:
Bunni wrote:
Question: If you are going as far as chest rigging a pistol, why not up angle it and raise it to the top bands of the plate carrier?

I never see it done, but its a hell of a lot more safe for you and those immediately around you if the barrel is pointed 270 and is riding about 2 inches above where a policeman might put a badge. Same place you would seat a shotgun or rifle.


Same reason you don't mount a knife 'up side down'


I'm guilty of this Steven Seagall-level bullshit. It's a Glock 78, and I love it. You're right, though. I can't sheath it any less than deliberately, and it's been noted that I might slide it right the fuck under my ribcage. I really have to get over how much I enjoy it and go back to a belt carry. At least it's not on a shoulder strap where I could poke my eye out.

I mean, look what happened to Blain.

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Braxton wrote:
Well my days of not taking ZS seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

Brotherbadger wrote:
crypto wrote:
No honest man needs to staple more than 10 pages.

Just get a two ring binder. It's perfect for close range paper holding, and it won't go through drywall. Not to mention the sound of you opening and closing it will make the paper automatically fall in line.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:03 pm 
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A double or triple retention holster will definitely hold it in place. From a long arm pistol grip to the holster would be the quickest line. Going from long arm to pistol you could do a throw down to spin the sling and clear the weapon while your hand is already drawing the pistol. Its more optimal movement than the classic left side belly mounted holster that allows the same type of movement with out the extended movement.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Bunni wrote:
A double or triple retention holster will definitely hold it in place. From a long arm pistol grip to the holster would be the quickest line. Going from long arm to pistol you could do a throw down to spin the sling and clear the weapon while your hand is already drawing the pistol. Its more optimal movement than the classic left side belly mounted holster that allows the same type of movement with out the extended movement.

Do a video of it for us.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Oh, dear. Yes, please do a video.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Bunni wrote:
A double or triple retention holster will definitely hold it in place. From a long arm pistol grip to the holster would be the quickest line. Going from long arm to pistol you could do a throw down to spin the sling and clear the weapon while your hand is already drawing the pistol. Its more optimal movement than the classic left side belly mounted holster that allows the same type of movement with out the extended movement.

Do a video of it for us.


Make sure you're wearing a chest rig full of mags as well. Oh, and be sure to run a timer.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:39 am 
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you could go with an Aussie style setup, notice the lack of Plates cos' bullets bounce off our Kangaroo fur camo :crazy:
Image
this is a very "basic" version, I had larger pouches on the front when i served as a cadet

i'm now looking at a pals belt system with hydration built into the rear of the harness

it sits on your hips and the many miles walking on "patrol" didn't give me a problem

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