'bump'-keys...

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'bump'-keys...

Post by evilpsych » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:32 pm

Couldn't find where this had been talked about before, but not a bad thing to have in a BOB, of course, i don't advocate using these in anything other than a full-blown ZPAW or eotwawaki scenario when you will have to forage for supplies in an urban environment.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9300140850

having a set of these in various house-key profiles wouldn't be a bad idea in a back-up plan for those of you that lose your keys a lot.
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Post by kyle » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:36 pm

You need to check your local laws before adding this to your gear. It varies from state to state. Don't be an idiot. Being in jail durring a disaster is probably the worst place you can be.

Illegal possession of lock picks is generally prosecuted as a felony under the category of "possession of burglary tools" or similar statutes. In many states, simple possession is completely legal as their statutes require proof of intent. In some states, however, possession without appropriate licensure is considered prima facie evidence of intent to commit a crime, rendering simple possession a crime
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Re: 'bump'-keys...

Post by Hermit » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:09 pm

evilpsych wrote:Couldn't find where this had been talked about before, but not a bad thing to have in a BOB, of course, i don't advocate using these in anything other than a full-blown ZPAW or eotwawaki scenario when you will have to forage for supplies in an urban environment.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9300140850

having a set of these in various house-key profiles wouldn't be a bad idea in a back-up plan for those of you that lose your keys a lot.
Very cool, and nice to know from both a convenience and a home defense perspective.
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Post by Dave_M » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:18 pm

Medeco locks offer a higher level of security than nearly all other home locks. That being said, some Medeco's can still be bumped, but it's much harder to do. The best protection, IMHO, is to install a medeco lock but then attach a Kwikset faceplate, viola' anyone that tries to bump it will fail miserably.
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Post by Hermit » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:24 pm

DavePAL84 wrote:Medeco locks offer a higher level of security than nearly all other home locks. That being said, some Medeco's can still be bumped, but it's much harder to do. The best protection, IMHO, is to install a medeco lock but then attach a Kwikset faceplate, viola' anyone that tries to bump it will fail miserably.
Ok, but are these locks likely to be present in the majority of homes and apartments available on the market?

I figure apartments would be a definite no, not sure on the homes.
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Post by runninjoe » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:27 pm

Wow, I want better locks on my house now.

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Post by Dave_M » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:53 pm

Hermit wrote:
DavePAL84 wrote:Medeco locks offer a higher level of security than nearly all other home locks. That being said, some Medeco's can still be bumped, but it's much harder to do. The best protection, IMHO, is to install a medeco lock but then attach a Kwikset faceplate, viola' anyone that tries to bump it will fail miserably.
Ok, but are these locks likely to be present in the majority of homes and apartments available on the market?

I figure apartments would be a definite no, not sure on the homes.
Nope. They're expensive (About $50-$60 for a single cylinder deadbolt). On my house however...

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Post by randomusername » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:59 pm

WTB ten padlocks for one door... anyone selling?

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Post by Rus » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:31 am

runninjoe wrote:Wow, I want better locks on my house now.
+1
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Post by Brash » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:12 am

Holy shit! :shock: I want to try that now!
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Post by Fire » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:35 am

learning how to pick basic locks is not a bad idea- and a lot of lock picks can be easily made or improvised- for example, the bristles of the local street sweeper machines are tempered steel, flat and they fall out all the time- they make a good pick or if pressed, a shank.......
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Post by thorian » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:57 am

Cool I am going to have to make one of theese to so I can replace the cylander on a door I do not have a key for on my own house. (Double keyed deadbolt with stripped screws)
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Post by Citizen Simon » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:31 am

thorian wrote:Cool I am going to have to make one of theese to so I can replace the cylander on a door I do not have a key for on my own house. (Double keyed deadbolt with stripped screws)
Let me know how that works out for you! I want to know if it is easy aas it sounds
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Post by MattHelm » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:11 pm

DavePAL84 wrote:Medeco locks offer a higher level of security than nearly all other home locks. That being said, some Medeco's can still be bumped, but it's much harder to do.
I doubt that I am the resident lock expert here - however, most
Medeco (and other locks with mushroom pins) are very susceptible
to vibrators or clickers.

No, I am not a locksmith, but have some training in the field.


On the issue of legality, it is usually illegal and pointless to keep
picks on hand unless you are a licensed locksmith.

To add to that, picks are actually over-rated. Unless the target is
built like a fortress, brute force is just as quick. Example: My current
residence door locks will quickly fall to a pick. Am I going to replace
them? Probably not. Anyone that really wants in will probably just
break a window.
Last edited by MattHelm on Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Cymro » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:58 pm

Two things I'll add:

A) Bumping a lock that's mounted in a door is just not as easy as it looks.

B) You can add bumping to the list of about a thousand ways to easily disable or bypass most household locks.

Locks are part, not all, of your security plan. As several people have said in this thread, LAYERED security is a must.
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Post by FelixArchon » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:12 pm

kyle wrote:You need to check your local laws before adding this to your gear. It varies from state to state. Don't be an idiot. Being in jail durring a disaster is probably the worst place you can be.

Illegal possession of lock picks is generally prosecuted as a felony under the category of "possession of burglary tools" or similar statutes. In many states, simple possession is completely legal as their statutes require proof of intent. In some states, however, possession without appropriate licensure is considered prima facie evidence of intent to commit a crime, rendering simple possession a crime
The deal with bump-keys is that they're not lock-picks. Picks are generally controlled (which is usually the same kind of wishy-washy control applied to slim-jims). Bumpers look very much like regular keys, and can be hand-made in minutes: the guy in this video says it takes a half-hour with a hand file. Much less with a small vice and a dremel. (I'm hypothesizing here, of course.) Also, the technique is so new in the public eye that the legal system hasn't caught up. It's still breaking and entering whether you're picking a lock, bumping it, or simply kicking in the door, but most jurisdictions don't arrest people carrying filed-down keys.

Besides, doing this is tougher than it looks (or so I'm told), and takes a lot more finesse and subtlety than criminals are interested in using. Most burglaries are still a result of a door or window being forced, and I don't think that's going to change.

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Post by Erik » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:44 pm

I tried to get people to make a 999 key like this for me. Either they had no clue what I was talking about or they refused.

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Post by crypto » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:48 pm

thorian wrote:Cool I am going to have to make one of theese to so I can replace the cylander on a door I do not have a key for on my own house. (Double keyed deadbolt with stripped screws)
I recommend 115gr JHP applied to the cylinder. You know you want to :D :D :D
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Post by JRod » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:33 pm

crypto wrote:I recommend 115gr JHP applied to the cylinder. You know you want to :D :D :D
You lose :P
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Post by Squirrley » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:57 pm

JRod wrote:
crypto wrote:I recommend 115gr JHP applied to the cylinder. You know you want to :D :D :D
You lose :P

Didn't Mythbusters do that show? I seem to remember the same result, nothing 'cept a 12 gauge would do it.
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Post by Packin' Heat » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:20 am

they can pick or bump all the locks they want. what about the magnetic sensors they don't know about or the the hungry rottweiler?

here is a question some of you more knowledgeable guys can think about. What are your feelings and or thoughts about electromagnetic locks? stronger/better than "what every other house has?" kick or pound-in proof?

sorry for the hijack. bumping keys is a pretty neat due to its simplicity. there was a big hub-bub about them a while ago but as with all news it faded away (remember the bic pen/kryptonite fiasco?). nobody thinks about it anymore.
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Post by Fire » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:50 am

dont the em locks rely on having electricity- if so, cut the power to the house= wide open- We had some local hooligans at one of the project houses that one of my buddys has the contract to guard cut the power and phone lines when prepping for a home invasion- the resident
1- saw them do it outside her house, in the light of the streetlights

2- had a cell phone

3- called police and security

4- watched the perps run like scared goats while lugging their long handled line cutter (hey, bolt cutters are expensive)
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Post by MICKPORNO » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:35 am

JRod wrote:
crypto wrote:I recommend 115gr JHP applied to the cylinder. You know you want to :D :D :D
You lose :P
years ago i had a master lock (biggest damned lock i've seen to this day - the body of the lock was about the size of the palm of my hand) that i didn't have a key for...i decided to test the lock like i had seen done in a commercial on tv at the time.....

i mounted the lock to a board so it had wood behind it like it would be if hanging from a hasp on a door....

i shot it twice from a distance of about 20 yards with 7mm remington magnum....

the 1st shot (dead center) bored a ragged hole clean thru the lock and swelled it considerably but it did no open...the 2nd shot was slightly above the 1st and pretty much ripped the lock apart...it was in pieces and no longer capable of keeping the hasp locked.

destroyed the lock....
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Post by Ringo » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:38 am

Something to know about lock bumping - its the same as raking. I carry a southford lockpick on my key chain at all times (I lost my tension wrench, go figure). NOTHING to do with unlocking doors via anything but the key is as easy as it looks. For bump keys - the idea and actual use is easy, but getting a key that does the job is the hard part. The guy in the video explained it nicely, but the point is that you also can't rely on getting it right on the first go. Bumping is noisy. I can pick a lock (standard door deadbolt) in about..eh...30 seconds. I can rake it in 5, I can bump it in 5. I'd much rather pick it.

Granted - bumping has merit. Its effective and cheap and super inconspicuous (my lockpick looks like a pocket knife. The bump key just looks like a key). Just remember, if your going to be noisy, just kick the door down. :twisted:

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