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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:00 pm 
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Hello All

With the huge variety of camouflage patterns such as DPCU (Auscam) Woodland, Multicam, Marpat, DPM, in addition to the numerous civilian camouflage patterns, how does one choose a pattern?

I'm looking at the following factors
- Price
- readily available
- effective in numerous environments
- ease of concealment.

I'm also looking at getting some scrim/camouflage net to cut up and apply to webbing to help break up the shape.

what are some other factors when choosing a camouflage pattern? how do people break up the shape further?

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:07 am 
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Durability and comfort of the clothing ranks pretty high for me.

Camo is less important, in my experience. The environment changes with the seasons. Good habits allow concealment with simple earth tones. This is what I have found and practiced while hunting and paintball.

Comfortable and durable, and earth tones, are what I look for. But I do have some camo. I like Woodland and Marine Marpat. They are just very general and feature a lot of brown. Just my preferences.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:13 am 
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I agree with woodsghost.

I stick with earthy tones. tan and OD green variants. And unless have shiny new clothes and you're washing them every day, the dirt will do some good.

Most decent camo is ideal for the home country. Auscam works great in the Australian bush. The colours are ideal. Multicam would probably be the go-to "everywhere" camo.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:22 am 
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Thanks for the feedback

I have some samples of camouflage...time to go into the bush and rainforest to see which is best.

its most likely that I'll go with a mixture of auscam and khaki, though we'll see

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:51 am 
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Earthy tones are best; avoid digital unless you are shopping at Walmart.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:53 am 
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I like the kind that was free. Since it was all free I like it all best. The only problem I have is it seems that the Woodlands BDU stuff that I wore a long time was subject to shrinkage while in storage. Especially the waist, it is much smaller than I recall. Other than training or range time I never put any of it on.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:08 pm 
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Quote:
The only problem I have is it seems that the Woodlands BDU stuff that I wore a long time was subject to shrinkage while in storage. Especially the waist, it is much smaller than I recall


:v: I'm so glad your posting again. :v:

I have a mosquito net type suit that is camouflaged both in pattern and cut fringe material to break up outline. It doesn't seem to be any popular pattern camo . I got it cheap from Sportsmans guide about 8 years ago to try and stop what I thought was a fox killing my pets. Wore it from late summer ( hense the mosquito net material ) to late fall when I put a .22 bullet through the head of a Bobcat that turned out to be the culprit. It worked awesome through the changing seasons. When I bowhunted deer in So Cal I used Alpenflage which worked really well in the Manzanita covered hills and valleys. All the browns in reds in the pattern would just disappear . So just pick something that seems to match your environment. Anything else is probably just salesmanship.
Hey Stercutus , I haven't pulled out that Alpenflage in 20 years. You think Mine might have shrunk too?

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Quote:
Hey Stercutus , I haven't pulled out that Alpenflage in 20 years. You think Mine might have shrunk too?


I am pretty sure anything I wore in my 20s or earlier suffered the same mysterious fate. Now that you mention it, it likely was a defect in the manufacturing process of fabrics of that era. Don't know if the Swiss stuff was affected.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Your area would be a big part of the decision, what is your terrain and flora like?

Multicam wins the infrastructure game hands down, there are simply the most different types of fabrics and garments and gear available, if you don't want to mix and match that is the path of least resistance. It is the "everywhere" camo statistically, and will work most places at least part of the year, but temperate camo it is not. Where I grew up (the PNW) it was far too light for most places, and something darker like woodland MARPAT concealed far better.

Few problems with MARPAT; some marines get uppity if they catch you in it (others don't care) and you are all but limited to surplus, which means you better like NYCO and goretex, 'cause that's all you get. I prefer the cut of the USMC uniforms to the Army uniforms greatly, but I just care for that much cotton in field wear so they mostly sit in the closet.

Most of my very favorite camo patterns have pretty much zero fabric or garment options, so they don't matter regardless of my love.

Hunting camos have gotten pretty crazy in recent years, with everyone trying to come out with their own pattern for branding and/or to encourage tribalism. First Lite's Fusion is good (where it works), Sitka has a wide assortment of high performance garments but most of their patterns are designed for the vision of an ungulate and don't work as well for humans.

While I don't believe that camo puts you at quite the disadvantage that many preppers/survivalist seem to think, I do think it can hurt your social capitol in the "off season" so I tend to stick on the solid colors and plaids bandwagon. Anecdotally I had one plaid shirt in particular that was a perfect color match with MARPAT, wearing it and MARPAT pants you couldn't really tell where one started and the other stopped. solid earth tone pants and earth tone plaid shirt is pretty much my go-too for hiking or the PAW.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Hello RonnyRonin,

please see links for just general photos of australian 'bush'
https://richardtulloch.files.wordpress. ... -track.jpg
https://urbandaisy.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/bush.jpg
https://eremophila.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/053.jpg

2nd on the earthly tones, I came across an ACU uniform in my local surplus store (how that came in I don't know) and am keeping an eye out for auscam gear.

Also, camo gear isn't high on my list of things, first things is to make sure the basics are covered, but I am in the process of getting everything I need to start to improve my hunting capabilities (and as you can see in the pics, cover can get quite bare in the dry season )

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:16 pm 
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I generally just wear my faded and stained old carharrt overalls and jacket. The tan color and grey stains work well in north Texas when there's almost always some dead grass around from summer drought or winter kill.

I know it isn't sexy and fancy but this is about the perfect color for our area.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:55 pm 
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What's that old saying? 5 is 4, 4 is 3, 3 is 2, 2 is one. Why just one?

RonnyRonin wrote:
Your area would be a big part of the decision
Few problems with MARPAT; some marines get uppity if they catch you in it (others don't care)


Yes, and yes. I laughed. See, for years and years we are taught that it is a working uniform we earned the right to wear. People scream if something is not worn correctly, etc. So, its a habit when we see someone wearing it that we recognize something is not right. I once set up on a range and was joined by a few others I did not know. One worn a RVN era OD green uniform with bloused trousers over heavily polished jump boots. He even donned a green beret but w/o the flash. I could not help myself and eventually asked him about it. He said that he always liked that look. Oh well. Ronny, wear what you want/like and just accept/except that you might hear a comment.

So, first, METT-TSL. Simple things I like and put to good use are the hooded parkas from the DS era. The desert and night desert patterns in a hooded parka 2 or 3 sizes too big will suffice for many purposes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Night Desert Parka for under 20 bucks:
http://www.armynavysales.com/products/night-desert-parka/

I don't think I could recommend one pattern, and I have often added paints and such to alter what I have. Sometimes a simple scarf can make the difference if only because the head/shoulders outline is so unique. Additionally, there is the simple tactic of being still.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
Additionally, there is the simple tactic of being still.


One of my favorite tactics.




To the OP:

Check out this guy. He has a lot of great videos. You can learn to spot people in the woods. You can learn a lot of other things from him too. He often does not try too hard to hide, he often lets the camo do the work. You can see a wide array of camo patterns at work.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Brent0331/videos

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:51 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
Additionally, there is the simple tactic of being still.


the art of moving slowly, carefully and quietly...I have used this art to great success scaring the SH** out of fellow paramedics, supervisors, friends and enemies. works best at night with a deep voice :lol:

I've looked at the youtube channel Brent0331, very interesting, will have to follow up on some of the techniques he mentions.
On the plus side...grey turns out to be great in rainforest environments...the grey blends in with the shadows well

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:38 pm 
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A lot of good information already in here. My best advice would be, don't over-complicate it. There is new camo released every year and every time manufacturers claim to have found the new holy grail. :words: :lol: I hunted deer in jeans and brown rain jackets, their vision sucks. For everything else earthy tones will do. Just make sure you have something that breaks up your silhouette and that's pretty much it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Prepper245 wrote:
A lot of good information already in here. My best advice would be, don't over-complicate it. There is new camo released every year and every time manufacturers claim to have found the new holy grail. :words: :lol: I hunted deer in jeans and brown rain jackets, their vision sucks. For everything else earthy tones will do. Just make sure you have something that breaks up your silhouette and that's pretty much it.
Yup.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:13 pm 
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So a little update.

I've gone with auscam, it has been replaced by the new Australian mulitcam camouflage uniform. More and more of it is starting to hit the surplus market, especially the M65 uniform and now the newer LAND125 uniform.

webbing and pouches will most probably be coyote brown (already have some) and auscam. I can further break up the outlines by using a needle and thread and sewing cam net scraps onto them.

now I've just got to get good at painting, and get a collection of matte colours :clap:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Coyote is a great base for a little rattle can touch up, I used to buy surplus 3-color desert cam (DCU?) because it was cheap and no-one really liked it. a blotchy stencil and a can of OD green and I was 80% of the way to multicam.

Despite the fashion show that is tactical colors Coyote is also just as safe bet for a base color, doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:31 pm 
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I read somewhere once, and I may have posted it here before, but there's some truth to it:

"Remember, your granddaddy got a deer every year hunting in just a flannel and jeans"

Now I know that may not be applicable to a tactical, military, end-of-the-world type situation, but keeping it simple is nice. You'd be surprised how much I blend in the forest in an olive/brown flannel and my brownish jeans... Dressing like a hipster can be great camo for the "grey man" apocalypse...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Im good with mostly black. Only time youd stick out like a sore thumb is in snow.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:00 am 
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It depends what you are hiding from too. Animal vision is different to human vision.

Case in point would be something like Sticks n Limbs* or Predator, works a lot better for animal vision than it does for human vision.



*Conflict of interest, I am an honorary pro-staffer for Sticks n limbs

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:02 am 
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w3rdtoyamama wrote:
Im good with mostly black. Only time youd stick out like a sore thumb is in snow.


you wouldn't want to wear that in the Australian bush :rofl: you'll die of heat stroke within 3 mins.

I guess it really comes down to the following criteria.
- Does it blend with the surrounding scenery, auscam does well in brown and green environments (like before and after rain)
- is it suitable for the environment. is it cool to wear in hot climates, warm to wear in cold?
- is it available?

so for australian conditions, where I could be swimming in water, or lying on baked earth, wear being cool and sun-safe is required (did I mention auscam uniforms are spf 50) and that they are readily available for a good price.

and Ad'lan, I've yet to come across a commercial camouflage pattern that works around where I live

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:55 am 
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So you seek to practice deception... First, study nature. Great topic no matter how often it comes up. I am a trained observer, having spent years and years looking through glass or simply observing. But so are you. You have been doing it every second since the moment you opened your eyes. You just may have not ranked it nearly so high in your sense of awareness.

There is no black in nature except night, or put more simply where there is no light. Flat black best simulates all darker colors but in and of itself stands out in a field of multi color if your eye has been practiced in seeing. The best hunters, cats perhaps, use all of their senses to the fullest in their work, whether training or actually hunting. If "being seen" is the primary concern, again, movement will trigger the reaction to your action. This can be mitigated by working on movement techniques (ball of foot striking before heel, for example) and by developing a sense of terrain appreciation; so, essentially the how and where you will move.

Snow provides one of the easiest places to hide -go white- and yet after looking through glass long enough and seeing no movement, the eye will eventually begin seeing the very thin black line that outlines something that is not supposed to be there against something that is.

Fortunately, today there are a thousand choices in camo with no single solution for everything. Pick your favorite out of your closet and then go stand in some cat tails while a friend flies his drone overhead so that you can see what the duck sees. Yes, you probably stand out like an NBA player would out on the court before a game with a catcher's mitt on his hand. Until a technology exists that allows everything that is behind you to appear in front of you, or your image dissolves altogether similar to the "Predator", if you want to "obscure so as to deceive" and your camo to be constant, you must constantly be working your camo.

Historically, the WWII German military seemed to 'get it' best. One could argue that they did not seek to find a single solution for everyone and remained cognizant of terrain, weather and other conditions. See, for example, the Waffen SS Pea Patter. A good source for information about camouflage patterns can be found in the CAMOPEDIA. The Corps did work with a brown side/green side effort for awhile.

If I wanted to cover the bases and get the most benefit at the least cost, I would probably buy a modern desert Marpat jacket about 3 sizes larger than I require and the night camo parka issued in Desert Storm, also 3x larger than I wear and utilizing the rule of "used is great; free is better."

Study your environment. Neither of these would work all that well standing out in the street in front of your public library. If I wanted to "go grey" after work today I'd probably wear a black jacket with a big NorthFace logo on the breast just like everyone else.

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