Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

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Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by pyzik » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:12 am

Wasn't sure if this would be more appropriate for this forum for the Bug Out forum...

I don't really have a BOB at the moment. Mine is a "get home bag".
I live in Metro Detroit and drive through Detroit every day to get back and forth to work. Been thinking about tossing a few
Enola Gaye smokes to my bag for whatever reason (signals, distraction, intimidation if need be).

Anyone else put smokes in their bags?
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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by mystic_1 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:33 pm

Signaling whom? Will they be looking for smoke plumes? Will they be looking where you are?

Distracting whom? Distracting them from what? Would a plume of smoke distract them?

Intimidating whom? Will they be intimidated by a plume of smoke?

Is it safe or legal for you to be deploying incendiary devices in the situations you envision?


I vote no. You'd be better served spending your weight budget on other things.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by pyzik » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:46 pm

mystic_1 wrote:Signaling whom? Will they be looking for smoke plumes? Will they be looking where you are?

Distracting whom? Distracting them from what? Would a plume of smoke distract them?

Intimidating whom? Will they be intimidated by a plume of smoke?

Is it safe or legal for you to be deploying incendiary devices in the situations you envision?


I vote no. You'd be better served spending your weight budget on other things.

mystic_1
I guess I should have been more detailed....

Signal: I just meant to aide in alerting help. Being in a metro area this is not likely going to be needed. More for perhaps a rural setting.

Distraction/Intimidation: This could be a serious tool in my mind. But perhaps I'm off base (part of why I asked the question).
Being in a Metro area people are my biggest threat. If I have to walk home for some (could be MANY) reason(s) and I ran into some folks that I'd rather keep away from I thought maybe I could toss one of these and cause 1. confusion 2. reconsideration (that I would be a good target.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by Boondock » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:51 pm

mystic_1 wrote:Is it safe or legal for you to be deploying incendiary devices in the situations you envision?
That's often the proverbial fly in the ointment. Otherwise, I'm actually a fan of smoke for signaling or concealment.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by pyzik » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:54 pm

Boondock wrote:
mystic_1 wrote:Is it safe or legal for you to be deploying incendiary devices in the situations you envision?
That's often the proverbial fly in the ointment. Otherwise, I'm actually a fan of smoke for signaling or concealment.
Under certain situations "who cares".
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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by zero11010 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:58 pm

Would love to hear any (real world) reasoning for carrying a smoke grenade regularly in the US for a get home bag.

Have you heard of a single story in the last 15 years where this would have helped a person who was stranded and trying to get home in the US? I mean, I've been inside a hot topic at the mall shopping for a niece and wanted to drop a smoke grenade on my way in and again on the way out to make sure no one saw where I was going.

I spend a lot of time in urban and suburban environments. I've dealt with a lot of crackheads. Crazy people. Gang members. Dealers rolling deep with hella heads who got their back. I haven't ever had an experience where a smoke grenade would have helped. I've been car chased by people with road rage. I've had separate road rage incidents involving people getting out of the car. I've been in multiple fights and involved in attempted robberies by multiple attackers. Nope, a smoke wouldn't have helped.

Thinking about stories my friends have gone through, involving shootings and such, a smoke grenade still wouldn't have helped.



It seems like you have a hammer and are looking for nails to hit with it.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by pyzik » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:02 pm

zero11010 wrote:Would love to hear any (real world) reasoning for carrying a smoke grenade regularly in the US for a get home bag.

Have you heard of a single story in the last 15 years where this would have helped a person who was stranded and trying to get home in the US? I mean, I've been inside a hot topic at the mall shopping for a niece and wanted to drop a smoke grenade on my way in and again on the way out to make sure no one saw where I was going.

I spend a lot of time in urban and suburban environments. I've dealt with a lot of crackheads. Crazy people. Gang members. Dealers rolling deep with hella heads who got their back. I haven't ever had an experience where a smoke grenade would have helped. I've been car chased by people with road rage. I've had separate road rage incidents involving people getting out of the car. I've been in multiple fights and involved in attempted robberies by multiple attackers. Nope, a smoke wouldn't have helped.

Thinking about stories my friends have gone through, involving shootings and such, a smoke grenade still wouldn't have helped.



It seems like you have a hammer and are looking for nails to hit with it.
Thanks for the info, coming from someone with first hand knowledge.

I was just thinking about if they would be helpful being only $6-$12. Cheap enough to toss one of two in if they would help.

Not looking for excuse to use one, just asking if they'd be useful.
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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by mystic_1 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:06 pm

Signaling:

Again, who will be looking? Will they know to interpret the random plume of smoke as "someone needs help"? Military forces use smoke for signaling only under very specific circumstances and with extensive training.

Distraction/Intimidation:

If you're thinking that you'll scare off urban gangbangers by throwing smoke bombs at them, well I think you're just more likely to piss them off even more and guarantee that they'll come at you even harder.





As far as "who cares", well for one, discussion of illegal activities is against the forum rules, so Zombie Squad cares.

I'm pretty sure that throwing what is essentially a firebomb will also ensure that the police will care, as will the people who live in the structures you might destroy with such.


Sorry, but outside of very specific pre-arranged circumstances, this sounds like mall ninja clown shoes to me.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by pyzik » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:09 pm

mystic_1 wrote:Signaling:

Again, who will be looking? Will they know to interpret the random plume of smoke as "someone needs help"? Military forces use smoke for signaling only under very specific circumstances and with extensive training.

Distraction/Intimidation:

If you're thinking that you'll scare off urban gangbangers by throwing smoke bombs at them, well I think you're just more likely to piss them off even more and guarantee that they'll come at you even harder.

As far as "who cares", well for one, discussion of illegal activities is against the forum rules, so Zombie Squad cares.

I'm pretty sure that throwing what is essentially a firebomb will also ensure that the police will care, as will the people who live in the structures you might destroy with such.

Sorry, but outside of very specific pre-arranged circumstances, this sounds like mall ninja clown shoes to me.

mystic_1
They are cold burning (at least the ones I was looking at are) so no risk of fire.

As for the rest, yes it's looking like I am out of bounds here. I just thought they sounded like they might be worth the couple bucks they cost to have for an emergency.

Sounds like they're pretty useless other than fun/paintball/airsoft.

Yeah, I can forget how strict ZS's rules are sometimes.
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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by Boondock » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:13 pm

zero11010 wrote:Have you heard of a single story in the last 15 years where this would have helped ...
Well, since you mentioned it. And the same could be said for about 90 percent of the firearm/tactical crap we discuss on this forum.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by nolongpork » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:28 pm

Just a few points...

The smoke he is talking about is NOT classified in legal or practical terms as incendiary.

In the woods red or any colored smoke is useful during daylight in place of flares. This also applies to on the water.

Suburban who knows as Murphy says "if it a stupid plan and it works, it is not stupid" ...hell if the zombie bikers are charging like the Mongol horde and death is imminent why not chuck one. I Dont see much downside and I rank it highter than using a shoe or harsh language to turn the tide.

If you find out to be a chance of use and are willing to carry the size and weight of a red bull can go for it. A BOB GHB is a low probability of use item anyway. A spare car key and $100 will get you through most "emergencies"....

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by Orpheus » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:38 pm

There's even smaller "sport smokes" a bit bigger than a D cell battery, and there's nothing remotely dangerous about them. They arent Willy Petes, you can pull the pin and hold them in your hand for their entire duration.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by zero11010 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:48 pm

Boondock wrote:
zero11010 wrote:Have you heard of a single story in the last 15 years where this would have helped ...
Image
1) That image is off the topic of a get home bag
2) You took a portion of my sentence out of context (the remainder of the sentence was, "to get home", and these folks needed to get away from their home)

But let's carry forward:
Was a smoke grenade their best signaling option? If everyone stranded in the event had a smoke grenade how much would that have helped? Were these people in need of a get home bag, or in your example is this a suggestion for something to have in the home rather than in a get home bag as per the topic.

There are also plenty of search and rescue type stories where people are lost in the wilderness (there are lost skiers and snowboarders every year). That makes this off topic too as most of these are stories of people going into the wilderness (usually for fun) and then needing help. Most get home bags are stored in the vehicle and wouldn't have helped a lost hiker or snowboarder.


I can't think of a "person was driving and their car broke down, and they had trouble signaling people." where creating a bunch of smoke would have helped. The story may be out there! But, how common is it? I'm sure there's a story where having the S volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica would have helped, too.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by majorhavoc » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:30 pm

I could conceivably see a practical use for these in a wilderness or watercraft survival kit.

In urban "get home" situations, not so much.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by mystic_1 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:36 pm

The Enola Gaye website itself calls these "pyrotechnic devices" and indicates they throw sparks when ignited, emit smoke which can burn, and recommends you have fire extinguishers on-hand and only use them in controlled environments with direct supervision.



If I were concerned about signaling in the wilderness or on the water, I'd want something (anything) other than an airsoft smoke grenade toy with a 20-second burn time.

I've also never heard anyone recommend airsoft smoke grenades as a viable self-defense option.

I'll stand by my initial assessment. There are many other much-more-useful things to put in your BOB.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by Mikeyboy » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:36 pm

God I love ZS :awesome:

Keeping a smoke grenade in your GHB, so you can use it as a intimidation weapon, to get away from rioters, and to signal for help.

Getting away from someone...this will be you
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As an intimidation weapon, against the wrong person or people...be prepared to have a still smoking grenade shoved up your ass. Either that or you will get yourself killed. You do understand that you live near Detroit.

As a signaling device...who are you signaling and how ill they know to look for smoke.

Honestly if its cheap, legal, and makes you giddy to have it in your GHB, knock yourself out. However I personally think its silly and near useless. Also what are the odd that some cheap smoke grenade just going off in your bag unexpectedly at the worst possible time. In terms of getting away and non lethal emergency intimidation, just get some pepper spray.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by Towanda » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:22 pm

I really can't see any kind of smoke grenade being useful unless part of your commute is through a major state forest or recreation area.

If you get stranded in Detroit at night, you'd be better off making sure your phone is charged so you can call a cab, and that you have your CPL and a pistol handy. Cab companies usually have at least one driver crazy enough to pick up an order from a broken-down car. Heck, you could call me and I'd come from A²/Ypsi to get you. I'm usually the one who gets sent for those kinds of orders at my company.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by TheWarriorMax » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:59 pm

For about 10 years, I carried a marine candle and smoke flare (1 of each) in my climbing/camping pack.

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https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_item ... lutePage=1

We told people where we were going, and when to expect us back, so these were really just for an actual emergency - signalling our exact location and wind direction once the chopper was within sight.

This is within the scope of their purpose and legal usage. Fortunately, I never had to use them.

I don't have one in by GHB or my BOB since the purpose is different.

If I start going wilderness hiking again with my kids, I'll probably put the same flares in my pack for the same reason.
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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by Maeklos » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:43 pm

Only reason I could see to carry a smoke grenade is if you're going to use it as a signaling device while stranded in the wilderness. Typically, you can keep old tires, green wood, wet grass on hand to make smoke for a signal fire if you see a passing airplane, boat, etc. A smoke grenade could serve this function, especially if you've got a colored smoke grenade. Grey/black smoke can sometimes blend into the thick fog banks that can hang around the shore in forested area. Popping a plume of red or blue smoke will be noticed much better.
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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by ManInBlack316 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:45 pm

I used to carry a few smoke grenades in my EDC bag. Really, I'm serious.
My reason was that I work in a "secure facility" that is really not well guarded and could be quite a target to certain people. I figure since me and everybody else in here is disarmed, I don't even have a knife, it's the best I can do if somebody runs in and shoots up the place while I try to get out and drag a coworker or two with me.
Why'd I stop carrying them? They weren't real smoke grenades, they were DIY ones made out of ping pong balls and aluminum foil which required a lighter to light the fuse. So now the plan is to just run like hell if they've not trapped me in yet.

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Re: Smoke "Grenades" in a Get Home Bag?

Post by IANMCDEVITT » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:01 am

I'd carry at least one. FIRST, those who said you definitely don't need it? Never called in a medevac report under duress (read:SOMEONE TRYING TO KILL ALL OF YOU).......BTW, there's a line for that too.... SECOND, you drop an HC smoke some where? and no one will find you on your attempted safe exfil. Crossing a street in a group? Smoke. Outflanking? Smoke......let's say your JUST in the civilian world. You drop an HC smoke and everyone will show up, I mean everyone. Now- a- days, if it's an "unknown" call, you not only get the ambulance, fire engine, an intercept unit, but some cops with M4's also. Read a book called "Military Operations on Urban Terrain" or MOUT or FIBUA. Carry the smoke only if it's LEGAL in your area.

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