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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:21 pm 
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ineffableone wrote:
chenessfan wrote:
Machetes are nice but for actual (unarmored) combat, nothing beats a proper sword.


Totally agree. As well as something I have mentioned of if actually up against zombies. Is the ability of a good sword to delimb zombies. This allows you to remove potential problems of being over run by hoards of zombies, if they can't grab then they are much easier to deal head blows with no worry of their hands grabbing at you.


How many people here that want to use a sword have actually trained in their use? Chopping off limbs looks so easy right.

Go buy a hollow pool noodle and put a section of 3/4" PVC pipe in it then wrap it with duct tape. You have just made yourself a serviceable practice arm. Hang a 3' section from a tree limb and chop it in half. Or if that is to hard, stick the whole section in the ground and chop it in half. Was it easy to chop in half?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:29 pm 
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You bring up a good point. I completely agree, without training, a sword is a poor weapon to pick. Just too complex to use. A baseball bat would be a better choice for someone inexperienced. But in the hands of a trained fighter, I don't think any close quarter weapon is as deadly against unarmored opponents as a good sword.
I train HEMA twice to three times a week, including test cutting on tatami mats and the like and can only recommend joining a HEMA group to anybody wanting to learn the use of an incredibly efficient weapon. Not to mention a beautiful piece of art around which a very sophisticated martial art has been built :D

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:52 pm 
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dallas wrote:
ineffableone wrote:
chenessfan wrote:
Machetes are nice but for actual (unarmored) combat, nothing beats a proper sword.


Totally agree. As well as something I have mentioned of if actually up against zombies. Is the ability of a good sword to delimb zombies. This allows you to remove potential problems of being over run by hoards of zombies, if they can't grab then they are much easier to deal head blows with no worry of their hands grabbing at you.


How many people here that want to use a sword have actually trained in their use? Chopping off limbs looks so easy right.

Go buy a hollow pool noodle and put a section of 3/4" PVC pipe in it then wrap it with duct tape. You have just made yourself a serviceable practice arm. Hang a 3' section from a tree limb and chop it in half. Or if that is to hard, stick the whole section in the ground and chop it in half. Was it easy to chop in half?


I have actually trained in use of sword for over 20 years. Official training in tai chi sword, as well as learning katana and euro sword techniques from friends books and videos to mix with my tai chi training developing my own style. Both Chenessfan and I are members of SBG (Sword Buyers Guide), I can definitely attest to his knowledge about swords. I would actually say he has more knowledge in many aspects than I am.

BTW pool noodle pvc and duct tape is not an analog for a human limb. Not even close. Duct tape way tougher than skin, pool noodle way softer and airy than muscle and flesh, pvc way harder than live bone.

Have you ever butchered an animal? I have. A cleaver with minimal force can chop through meat tendons and bone often with just one swing.

If you don't want to test with real meat and bone.

Tatami mats soaked in water wrapped around bamboo is considered the analog most similar to cutting into real flesh, not your example.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Ineffableone is right (and thanks for the praise :oops: ). Btw, many people use soaked newspaper rolls because tatami mats are so damn expensive :? :D
Pool noodles are fun to cut but very different. Very light and with no density. Coupled with PVC pipe and duct tape you would get a target that requires substantial skill to cut, no doubt, but indeed not similar to what a sword would encounter in real use and very possibly damaging to a blade.

Talking about it, I can heartily recommend SBG for everybody wanting to learn more about sword, lots of good information there.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:31 pm 
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ineffableone wrote:
dallas wrote:
ineffableone wrote:
chenessfan wrote:
Machetes are nice but for actual (unarmored) combat, nothing beats a proper sword.


Totally agree. As well as something I have mentioned of if actually up against zombies. Is the ability of a good sword to delimb zombies. This allows you to remove potential problems of being over run by hoards of zombies, if they can't grab then they are much easier to deal head blows with no worry of their hands grabbing at you.


How many people here that want to use a sword have actually trained in their use? Chopping off limbs looks so easy right.

Go buy a hollow pool noodle and put a section of 3/4" PVC pipe in it then wrap it with duct tape. You have just made yourself a serviceable practice arm. Hang a 3' section from a tree limb and chop it in half. Or if that is to hard, stick the whole section in the ground and chop it in half. Was it easy to chop in half?


I have actually trained in use of sword for over 20 years. Official training in tai chi sword, as well as learning katana and euro sword techniques from friends books and videos to mix with my tai chi training developing my own style. Both Chenessfan and I are members of SBG (Sword Buyers Guide), I can definitely attest to his knowledge about swords. I would actually say he has more knowledge in many aspects than I am.

BTW pool noodle pvc and duct tape is not an analog for a human limb. Not even close. Duct tape way tougher than skin, pool noodle way softer and airy than muscle and flesh, pvc way harder than live bone.

Have you ever butchered an animal? I have. A cleaver with minimal force can chop through meat tendons and bone often with just one swing.

If you don't want to test with real meat and bone.

Tatami mats soaked in water wrapped around bamboo is considered the analog most similar to cutting into real flesh, not your example.


I have hunted deer since I was a little kid. I am very familiar with their anatomy. I also grew up on a farm and butchered steers. I also fix people for a living, so I know a little about humans.

The pool noodle and pvc is the best I could come up with for the average person to use. I used the tatami mats and bamboo in my 30 plus years of martial arts training, but how many people can run down to the local hardware store for that? I came up with something for my friends to use that is easy to get. Also, it is less forgiving of a misangled strike. That helps build better skill


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:16 pm 
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dallas wrote:
The pool noodle and pvc is the best I could come up with for the average person to use. I used the tatami mats and bamboo in my 30 plus years of martial arts training, but how many people can run down to the local hardware store for that? I came up with something for my friends to use that is easy to get. Also, it is less forgiving of a misangled strike. That helps build better skill


Except it is very likely to damage your blade and ruin your time cutting when your sword is chipped or rolled due to being abused. PVC is way too hard to use with sword practice and cutting. Might as well be trying to cut an iron pipe. (don't try to cut an iron pipe btw) Your suggested material for practice would not build better skill, it would build frustration and an empty wallet trying to replace damaged swords. Not to mention the glue residue from duct tape getting all over your sword, I would hate to have to clean that off my sword after cutting practice.

Not sure why you would expect to go to a local hardware store for back yard sword cutting supplies.

Pool noodles on their own are a great cheap practice tool for cutting, however they need very precise edge alignment. While an easy to cut material they are also so light and flexible, poor alignment just bends them rather than cutting. Pool noodles make great cutting targets when someone doesn't put pvc inside them. As they help teach proper edge alignment.

As Chenessfan mentioned soaked newspaper rolls are a common DIY replacement for tatmami mats. Also common is simple beach mats, you can often find these at $1 stores. Just be careful to inspect them for metal.

Both green and dry bamboo are common cutting materials also. often used as a bone analog. Easy to get some either by a trip to a garden supply store, or often you can find a neighbor growing bamboo who would not mind you thinning out theirs a bit, since it grows like crazy.

Since you have butchered animals and know humans, I find it odd you would make such a mistake in comparing pvc pool noodle and duct tape to human limbs.

OK I am done with this tangent, I don't want to keep going off topic and hijacking this thread. So if someone has more questions about proper sword targets PM rather than comment in this thread.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:31 pm 
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My two would be an ASP expandable baton as the first thing, and then either my Glock 78 field knife, or a smallsword if I wasn't worried about concealing it.

I have a background in sabre fencing... not the same as knife fighting, I know, but it only has to work long enough for me to get my gun!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:03 pm 
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ineffableone wrote:
Except it is very likely to damage your blade and ruin your time cutting when your sword is chipped or rolled due to being abused. PVC is way too hard to use with sword practice and cutting. Might as well be trying to cut an iron pipe.


Sorry, PVC is close to human bone hardness PVC is up to 110 Rockwell R. Bone is around 103. That is close enough for me. If the blade breaks or nicks on the PVC, I don't want it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:03 am 
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[quote="dallas"][quote="ineffableone"]
If the blade breaks or nicks on the PVC, I don't want it.

*******************************************************************************************************

But that is just it, every blade will break or nick, you may not see it, you just know that now your blade is dull. Hammers do not need sharpened, and mine will not break. It is about 27" long and about 3-3.5lbs.
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My secondary weapon would be the 3 point shiv I have been working on. Made from .30" steel rod. Again will not break, and does not need sharpened.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:57 am 
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For a legit Zpaw, concealment not an issue? Well, my first job, at 10 y.o., was brush clearing at a beach park. Some fireline work during the dry season (To be honest, as the youngest one in the crew it was usually my job to stay in the rig and run the pumps while an active burn was on). And here in Oregon, what with the heavy blackberry and brush, I've had a lot of experience with this bad boy, the full sized brushook (not mine, but the same style):
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Swings like a baseball bat, but with a longer reach and a heck of a lot more damage. And when it gets dull? You still have a club with a big chunk of steel at the end. Working on a Kydex sheathe I can strap to my pack for it. Seriously mystified as to why I don't see these much in Zed games.

As for utility, it also makes a nice axe for wood up to about 3" in diameter, and you can split smaller rounds with the flat portion of the blade.

Any other situation, 18" Latin Bush style machete tucked into my pack with the handle sticking out, and my Kabar for back up. Plus Kershaw Leek in my pocket at all times.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:18 am 
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Honestly I think my walking stick is all I need, but if I need a bit more I could attach my CS shovel head on the opposite end of the burl. That would be something.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:39 pm 
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zhins wrote:
But that is just it, every blade will break or nick, you may not see it, you just know that now your blade is dull.


Your correct blades dull with use. Even just cutting paper does dull a blade. This is something that a lot of people don't seem to understand. There is no such thing as a forever sharp blade. Every blade eventually needs to be sharpened. There is a balance of hardness, durability, edge retention, etc for every blade. The smart consumer needs to balance these things to find the right metal work in a blade for the function they are looking for. Note heat treat is a very critical part of any blade, a poor heat treat can ruin good steel and blade design.

And yes a nice war hammer can really be useful. Going impact weapon instead of bladed can save you a lot of trouble if your not good with edge alignment and sharpening. There are pluses and minuses for impact or edged. A lot of which one someone should choose comes down to personal experience, knowledge, and skills.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:05 pm 
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olaf_yahoo wrote:
Cause I'll use my rifle to bash their face.

Thats what i'm gonna do. One end to bash them in the face and the other end to stab them with bullets :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:27 pm 
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itzybitzyspyder wrote:
Honestly I think my walking stick is all I need, but if I need a bit more I could attach my CS shovel head on the opposite end of the burl. That would be something.

Prayer stick :clap:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:36 am 
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just got this badboy http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Fa ... 4oZ1z0v3a5

and its little brother https://www.flickr.com/photos/itstactic ... 169595850/


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:55 am 
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I see a back and forth on this thread about how close PVC and pool noodle are to flesh and bone. With my time as a butcher I'd say they are not the least bit similar. For one, fun-noodle doesn't have a grain. The grain affects your stroke and can cause deviation in course. PVC isn't one of my areas of expertise but it flexes at room temps and shatters easily in cold temps so I'd say that it's nothing like bone. I've had my cleaver get stuck in a beef femur and I just can't see that happening with PVC. If you broke down steer on the farm you'd be chopping through the cartilage of the joints more than anything, but then again I'm not sure if the meat was sold or kept for home use so I'm not sure how far down you were breaking the steer.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:17 am 
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Warhammer and a steel point for a Hewing Spear (basically a 12+ inch long double edged sword blade with a haft socket where the hilt would be). Of course my EDC (every day carry) has other fixed blade knives in it as well as my M48 Kommando shovel which is also good at smashing in skulls. Now before you start flaming me about (only 2 weapons) those other things aren't meant as "weapons" they are the tools in my EDC kit.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:06 pm 
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zhins wrote:
Hammers do not need sharpened, and mine will not break. It is about 27" long and about 3-3.5lbs.
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Can we get more pics and info on that war hammer please. It looks bad-ass.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:49 pm 
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"MELEE" huh?

I assume that refers to ' fight with mixed/uneven weapons" including firearms.

Bowie knives, as always. I don't deviate from them much, as
1) Its a rare day that i do not do some bowie/bowie related atribute training.
2) They frickin' work...well.
3) easy to carry, conceal.
4) i make 'em, so repacement/redundancy/improvisation is not a problem.
5) great survival tools as well.
6) Lightweight for capability
7) I like 'em.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:34 am 
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My 2 weapons of chose are #1 aluminum baseball bat (easy to find, easy to use, descent range and intimidating) #2 brass knuckles (they are a quick and easy to use close range weapon that most people don't even think to look for on a "target").

P.S. In South Carolina brass knuckles are SOOOO legal that if a police officer asks if you have a weapon you can say no even if they are on your hands at the time. They are only considered a weapon if they are used to commit a crime. (IE "empty the register or I'll hit you with these")
P.S.S. I'm not a lawyer, this is the internet, do your own research.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:46 pm 
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This is 2014 not 1402...if someone pulls a 10,000$ sword and tries to use their 30 years of training on me in a hostile fashion, my ignorant country ass is gonna shoot 'em. Because I just dont know any better ;)

I can see the merits of a non-firearm weapon, but a ordinary Eastwing framing hammer, or a hickory maul handle will work just fine if *for some magical reason firearms quit working* or I need to be quiet. Hell, Im lazy, lot easier to pull a 2-5 pound trigger then it is to swing a impact weapon.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:55 pm 
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Auxiliary non-firearm weapons are there when you run out of ammo, or god forbid your gun jams. What about those that live in countries where it's illegal to own firearms like Great Britain or Canada?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:00 pm 
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bu55c wrote:
Auxiliary non-firearm weapons are there when you run out of ammo, or god forbid your gun jams. What about those that live in countries where it's illegal to own firearms like Great Britain or Canada?

Not illegal to own guns over here, just have a lot of hoops to jump through to do so.

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