Folding Knife Fit for Sea Duty

For those who live in areas where firearms are not an option and those that are smart enough to have a back up.

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AlphaMMA
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Folding Knife Fit for Sea Duty

Post by AlphaMMA » Sun May 11, 2008 9:54 pm

I need a knife to EDC for school next year. My current EDC isn't viable because its illegal (by 1/8") and non-serrated. Here are the requirements:

3.5" or less (MA legal limit.... :evil: )
Must be able to hold up to saltwater (maritime academy)
Serrated (for cutting and splicing lines)
Lockback
No speed or assisted opening (Illegal in MA)
Inexpensive ( < $75)

What I'd like to ask from ZS is about knife steel. Is there a (relatively) cheap type of steel that will hold up to salt spray better then others?

Will 440C be alright? What if it has a tacticool black coating?

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Post by killing time » Sun May 11, 2008 10:59 pm

440C is fine for this application. 420 is what is used in just about all diving knives <$100. It never rusts, and while it is too soft, it's also very tough (forgiving of prying and banging) which are attributes needed for diving knives (and others spending time near water). 440A is what you get when you see just "440 stainless" is much better and easily corrosion resistant enough for you. 440C has more carbon, holds a better edge, and is a great all-around steel that is cheap enough to be found in less expensive knives. Also check out ATS-34, it's got lot of the same characteristics.

Knife steel FAQ

In my experience, 420 is worthless, the 440's are just as good for salt-water spray, yet have better characteristics and are also cheap. 440A only for knives that will be abused and need not hold great edges. 440C or ATS-34 if i have the choice and i still want to put it through the dishwasher (or salt-water). Also check out AUS-8 which many of the same characteristics as 440C and is perfect for salt occasions. Avoid AUS-6 however.


Oh tacticool black.. what the heck, if it makes you happy, why not?
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Post by jamoni » Sun May 11, 2008 11:08 pm

440c is fine. My suggestion is to get a Spyderco Delica with synthetic handle. I've used them in high-rust applications (swamp and ocean) with only minimal rust. A touch of steel wool and some motor oil are all the maintenance necessary.
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Post by AlphaMMA » Sun May 11, 2008 11:17 pm

killing time wrote:

Oh tacticool black.. what the heck, if it makes you happy, why not?
Well, I was thinking it may help prevent corrosion. Personally, I prefer a shiny blade for signaling or reflecting light. I remember a macgyver episode once where he signaled a remote controlled attack helicopter to tear gas a crowd of unruly bad guys by reflecting sunlight into the light-sensitive switch on the chopper. Saved him from being lynched.

Thanks for the awesome link! Perfect distraction to procrastonate my last paper due for this semester! Hey, I've got 12 hours left to fix my citations 8)

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Post by killing time » Sun May 11, 2008 11:20 pm

#1 remote controlling a helicopter with reflections would be badass. Let me know how that works out :)

#2 The edge is where corrosion will be the problem, if it eats away your edge, you can't cut. Tacticool black won't help you there. The salt water eats at the microserations on the edge and destroys it where there is no coating. The side of the blade is relatively smooth (you don't sharpen it, so it has no microserations to pit and corrode). Not a big deal if there's rust on the side anyway. I never understood why black coatings were touted as helping prevent corrosion, sure they do, but by the time the sides start rusting, the edge is long long gone. The steel is the important bit when it comes to rust.

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Post by AlphaMMA » Sun May 11, 2008 11:40 pm

killing time wrote:#1 remote controlling a helicopter with reflections would be badass. Let me know how that works out :)

#2 The edge is where corrosion will be the problem, if it eats away your edge, you can't cut. Tacticool black won't help you there. The salt water eats at the microserations on the edge and destroys it where there is no coating. The side of the blade is relatively smooth (you don't sharpen it, so it has no microserations to pit and corrode). Not a big deal if there's rust on the side anyway. I never understood why black coatings were touted as helping prevent corrosion, sure they do, but by the time the sides start rusting, the edge is long long gone. The steel is the important bit when it comes to rust.

#3 Endnote is your friend. Save yourself from citation hell.
Thanks, mate!

This is what I learned:

440A: cheapest, most rust resistant.
440C: more expensive, holds edge better, rust resistant, but a little less then A or B grade.

What I'm going to purchase:

Image
http://tinyurl.com/6nbren - $35

Its specs are as followed:

440C
3.125"
Anodized Aluminum handle with rubber grips

I've owned a couple S&W knives.. The big brother to the one pictured, and my current EDC, a S&W SWAT Large non-serrated. I really should probably venture out to some other, better brand, but I just ordered my third of the same model (its on backorder, but I love BQ and have plenty of time). Plus, I'm familiar with it. Its a tincy bit smaller, but I know exactly how it works and I like it that way.

Only concern I have right now is with the screws. They might rust. I mean, I'm not planning on diving with the damned thing, but I can see myself dropping it onto a salty deck in the rain or into a bilge. The big screw is probably a 10-32 or smaller, but as an engineering student, I'm sure I can find something to replace them.

Macgyver actually used a shaving mirror to signal the chopper :lol:

Thanks for the elaboration on where rust starts. Makes perfect sense. Only thing I can think of now is that scratches on the sides will be a place for corrosion to start... So you're right, black coat won't matter.

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Post by killing time » Sun May 11, 2008 11:59 pm

Looks about perfect for you. I like it and you can't beat the price!

It's always good to have a combo blade, get the best of both worlds. For $35 with 440C, hell, I might get one myself.
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Post by AlphaMMA » Mon May 12, 2008 12:10 am

killing time wrote: For $35 with 440C, hell, I might get one myself.
$35 is for the tacticool variety. The silver one I have pictured is in stock and is only $29.99. Use the coupon code CPN20X and get $5 off. CPN50X, CPN100X, etc etc etc. Just sign up for their mailing list and you'll get the coupon code.

Brigade Quartermasters is my favorite site in the world for gear. Even if its more expensive elsewhere, I'll buy from them because I have NEVER experienced nor heard of a screwup with them. Customer service is amazing, and if its made in the USA or imported, they make sure to let you know. They ship to APO/FPO and always toss in a freebie for soldiers (usually whatever knife they have on clearance). Like I said, they aren't always the cheapest, but their service is great. Only gripe I have is that they changed the layout of their website. They used to have duplicate items in different sections, but I felt like I could find what I wanted more precisely.

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Post by thorian » Mon May 12, 2008 12:07 pm

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007QCOUQ?tag ... amp=211189


The Swiss army Helmsman would probally be more usefull because if you are actually going to be joing lines you will use the marling spike more then the blade. I like for my tools to have more then one use. If there was a leatherman with a marlin spike I would have suggested that one first.

oh yeah and $24
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Post by AlphaMMA » Mon May 12, 2008 1:52 pm

thorian wrote:http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007QCOUQ?tag ... amp=211189


The Swiss army Helmsman would probally be more usefull because if you are actually going to be joing lines you will use the marling spike more then the blade. I like for my tools to have more then one use. If there was a leatherman with a marlin spike I would have suggested that one first.

oh yeah and $24

Cool tool, but the blade isn't serrated (that's part of the requirement for my sea bag knife). I'll probably get issued/have to buy my own marlinspike anyways.

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Post by wildbill » Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 pm

Hinderer™ CLS
Combat Life Saver


http://www.gerbergear.com/product.php?model=1870
Last edited by wildbill on Mon May 12, 2008 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sailors knife from A.G. Russel

Post by jdavidboyd » Mon May 12, 2008 3:57 pm

http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_make ... carta.html

Goes for $79.00.

You might like this one better:

http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_make ... aster.html but it goes for $275.00.
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Post by Jeriah » Mon May 12, 2008 5:53 pm

AlphaMMA wrote:
killing time wrote:

Oh tacticool black.. what the heck, if it makes you happy, why not?
Well, I was thinking it may help prevent corrosion. Personally, I prefer a shiny blade for signaling or reflecting light. I remember a macgyver episode once where he signaled a remote controlled attack helicopter to tear gas a crowd of unruly bad guys by reflecting sunlight into the light-sensitive switch on the chopper. Saved him from being lynched.

Thanks for the awesome link! Perfect distraction to procrastonate my last paper due for this semester! Hey, I've got 12 hours left to fix my citations 8)
Dude, I totally remember that episode. He said he wanted to shave before they hanged him, and the bad guy thought he was all smart giving him an electric razor, and then Mac asked for a mirror, and all hell broke loose.
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Post by TravisM.1 » Mon May 12, 2008 6:48 pm

AlphaMMA wrote:
Image
http://tinyurl.com/6nbren - $35
I hope it holds up better than the one a guy I work with has. His doesn't lock up very tightly, and doesn't hold much of an edge for very long.
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Post by AlphaMMA » Mon May 12, 2008 11:03 pm

Wldbill: Thanks for the link, that folder has some sweet features

jdavidboyd: thanks for the links, but I need my blade to he half serrated (going to EDC it on campus, not just use it for ropework). And for $275 it better some with a safety anal hair trimmer, too.

Jeriah: Yeah that episode was called Honest Abe. Aired in '91 on season 7, I believe. http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=m ... itesearch= Google video has nearly every episode (they're on AOL's free video search)

TravisM.1: perhaps your comrade had a chinese knockoff. The real ones are made in Taiwan (which is better then commie china, imo), and hold a good edge. Its 440C stainless, the knockoffs are 420.

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Post by raptor » Mon May 12, 2008 11:05 pm

This is what a mariner needs for EDC.

http://www.greenboatstuff.com/myofcrknpase.html
or
http://www.discountcutlery.net/en-us/dept_21418.html

item MYA377P is serrated and 3.75 inches

When I am out sailing (or lately playing powerboat) I always carry a Camillus pocket knife on a lanyard with a whistle.

http://www.knivesplus.com/CAMILLUS-KNIV ... -BOOT.HTML

I have found the non-serrated blade better and faster to cut on the newer synthetic lines. They leave a cleaner end for splicing. Also if you are splicing braided lines you will need appropriate fids the marlin spike will work only on 3 strand or shackles.

Also since they are 100% stainless they last decades.

I have found the marlin spike not too useful since I use more braided lines than 3 strand lines.

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Post by TravisM.1 » Mon May 12, 2008 11:15 pm

AlphaMMA wrote: TravisM.1: perhaps your comrade had a chinese knockoff. The real ones are made in Taiwan (which is better then commie china, imo), and hold a good edge. Its 440C stainless, the knockoffs are 420.
Nope, his is a genuine S&W. The aluminum wore around the pivot pin. I was kinda surprised that it wasn't better, myself. I've heard that other people were happy with theirs.

Maybe he just got a lemon. Maybe it was 2:30pm on Friday afternoon. Who knows.
I sold my soul to the devil for a .45, a black cowboy hat and a switchblade knife.......

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Post by AlphaMMA » Mon May 12, 2008 11:27 pm

TravisM.1 wrote:
AlphaMMA wrote: TravisM.1: perhaps your comrade had a chinese knockoff. The real ones are made in Taiwan (which is better then commie china, imo), and hold a good edge. Its 440C stainless, the knockoffs are 420.
Nope, his is a genuine S&W. The aluminum wore around the pivot pin. I was kinda surprised that it wasn't better, myself. I've heard that other people were happy with theirs.

Maybe he just got a lemon. Maybe it was 2:30pm on Friday afternoon. Who knows.
Weird. I've owned and carried daily three of them over the past 4 years (first two got stolen) and have loved them.

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Post by Towanda » Mon May 12, 2008 11:33 pm

Try a Boye folder.

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Post by MarkTBSc » Tue May 13, 2008 7:21 am

I've been looking at these lately:

Rescue knife

It's short bladed, mixed serrated and straight, 440 Stainless and it comes with a windscreen punch and a belt-ripper. If you go on eBay and search for Rescue Knife then you get quite a nice selection.
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Post by Squirrley » Tue May 13, 2008 6:10 pm

{EDIT}Whoops, should have read the whole thread first, I see Mr Alpha has already chosen a knife.

What's the price tag for? Just what you can afford at the moment? A good knife is worth the extra dollars, IMHO. If it means you have to live off of peanut butter sandwiches for a week or two, I'd do it, to be able to get a good quality piece of gear. Especially being a serrated knife for marine use, this is going to be an extremely important piece of safety equipment for you. I understand that getting the $400 fixed blade Boye is out of the question for most people, but I think a budget cap of $75 might be a bit too limiting for a good, safe, knife. I'd recommend the Spyderco I linked to at the bottom. Good company, good knife, and at $100 its not /too/ expensive, and still within grasp. If you have $75 now, mow a couple lawns, fix a couple old peoples computers, (wax a boat or two =P), or other such odd jobs and you'll be able to get the extra $30-$40.
Towanda wrote:Try a Boye folder.

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+ fracking 1. I've always wanted one, and I may be picking one up this summer because I need a dedicated safety knife.
A Myerchin would be my second choice, I have this guy, that I got as a graduation present. Having a real, separate spike is pretty damn handy. I just wish their sheath was a notch or two higher on the quality totem poll, its just a little bit too flimsy. Not bad, and it works fine for ditty bag and wearing it on my belt in the parking lot duty, but it could be better.

If I can't get the Boye folder, I'm gonna go with this spyderco for a safety knife.
thorian wrote:SAK Mariner/Helmsman
This is another good knife for ditty bag or toolbox duty, one of our coach-guys has one.


I'd stay well away from the cheap ass 'rigging knives' like this guy. Just too poor quality, IMHO. Plus, I don't think you can get them serrated, which puts them out of the question for you.
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Post by wildbill » Tue May 13, 2008 9:11 pm

So what knife did he get? :roll:
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Post by AlphaMMA » Tue May 13, 2008 9:19 pm

wildbill wrote:So what knife did he get? :roll:
Why the eyeroll, mate?

This one

Got it with a $5 off coupon, too.

As far as squirrley's concern for a good safety knife, next paycheck I'm going to shop around for a tool bag. I want to get one of those EOD/Mine bags from CountyComm and pack something a little bit bigger and fixed blade in there- maybe my Gerber LMF2. Or maybe I'll get another to keep in the tool bag and keep the other in the BOB. :D

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Post by wildbill » Wed May 14, 2008 6:53 am

for grins :lol:
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