We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

For those who live in areas where firearms are not an option and those that are smart enough to have a back up.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Name that sword

1. Katana- I am the samurai
3
9%
2. Bastard sword- the happy medium
2
6%
3. Rapier- I am gonna poke you to death from afar
0
No votes
4. Large Two handed sword- all offense no defense
1
3%
5. Cutlass- easy to use and deadly
1
3%
6. Shamshir- arabian curved blades
0
No votes
7.Saber- Tallyho and charge of the light brigade
4
11%
8. Jin Dahl- good enough for Sun Zu
1
3%
9. Philippine Kriss- I like the curves
0
No votes
10. Short sword- easy to carry and quick to use
7
20%
11.Khopesh- I prefer my swords from the old testament
1
3%
12. Gladius- good enough for the Romans
9
26%
13. Other
6
17%
 
Total votes: 35

User avatar
The Twizzler
* * * * *
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:47 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead
Return of the Living Dead
Location: Nashville, TN

We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by The Twizzler » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:50 pm

So the Armageddon has happened and its been long enough that we are all out of ammo. Guns are useless. You can't make new ammo because of reasons.... so what sword would you take with you. It can only be a sword so no knives or spears or bows or axes because God wills it :crazy: .
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

User avatar
shulatt
* *
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Virginia Beach

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by shulatt » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:24 pm

Of the swords I can easily lay hands on at the moment I'd be most likely to grab the shortsword for ease of carry, speed and easier to deploy and control in close quarters. I'd be tempted to grab my saber, but it's slower and primarily slashing/chopping and very limited as far as thrusting and needs a fair bit of room to be effective. Damn effective within it's limits though.
My basket-hilt broadsword somewhat bridges the gap having more length to keep enemies at more distance, an effective point for thrusting and a sturdy edge for slash/chopping as well as a heavy pommel for bludgeoning. It's more versatile, but slower and heavy. The basket also protects the hand well, but does limit the style of attack somewhat due to interference with the range of motion at the wrist.
The basket-hilt does lend itself better to the use of a buckler or targe though, or a dirk or other reasonably sized fighting knife in the off hand.
Last edited by shulatt on Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ManInBlack316
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 677
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:28 pm
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by ManInBlack316 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:27 pm

Do rather large machetes count as knife or swords?
Serious here :oh:

User avatar
White Bear
* * *
Posts: 650
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:26 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by White Bear » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:09 am

I voted saber, but I'd rather have a good backsword. Lacking that, I'd settle for an 1821 pattern saber, close enough.

edited to add relevant youtube video

I'm a normal guy with nothing to hide.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13932
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:10 am

With no guns and ammo I assume there would be no petro powered vehicles and that mounted warfare would have returned.

If I am lucky enough to have survived and resourceful enough to have a horse and some friends with horses I'd go to a crossbow first, then a smaller compound bow. I'd need a decent lance to go with that. With that set up I would like go with an estoc and a modern tacopis for closer in work. A big bladed mace might work better than the estoc.

Most likely threat and tactics determines what type of weapon.

If I don't have a horse then I would definitely need a compound bow and a pike to fight the attackers who did have horses. The pike would have to be at least 15 feet long. Lacking a bow I guess I could employ a javelin with a thrower. For sword I would carry a katzbalger or similar.

If I were on foot I'd have to get a sturdy woman to carry all that extra stuff and maintain everything as I traveled around the PAW.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

Black Beard
* *
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:34 am

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by Black Beard » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:57 am

I'd go broadsword and buckler.

For most people who haven't done weapons based martial arts, I think a 18" long heavy bladed machete would work best.

User avatar
JayceSlayn
* * *
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by JayceSlayn » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:42 am

Of course, 99/100 times skill with whatever sword you go with is going to trump a 'superior' sword wielded by an unskilled swordsman. Also, each of these swords were designed to be used in conjunction with the other kit that their respective soldiers would have, like shields and armor (or lack thereof of either), mounted or not, and formation tactics, etc.

As a lone swordsman, rather than a grouped formation, I would think reach and agility of the blade would be the most critical factors, and maybe also having the ability to handle the widest range of circumstances/threats with a single blade, rather than something too specialized. In an open field, a longer sword might have the advantage, but indoors or in close quarters, short swords can be better.

All that being said, I have little to no experience using many different kinds of swords, so I went with the gladius out of familiarity, though if the spatha were an option I might pick that instead. The gladius is in short sword territory (but it isn't all that short in reality - couldn't call it a big knife), and I'd expect a lot of potential encounters would be in close quarters rather than open engagements. The gladius is also a pretty multi-purpose blade.
Rahul Telang wrote:If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up
Colin Wilson wrote:There’s no point in kicking a dead horse. If the horse is up and ready and you give it a slap on the bum, it will take off. But if it’s dead, even if you slap it, it’s not going anywhere.

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 3282
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by flybynight » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:33 am

Image
Not all those who wander are lost

John Titor was right

User avatar
gunsandrockets
* * *
Posts: 472
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:31 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 1979 Dawn of the Dead
Sean of the Dead
Return of the Living Dead
Zombieland
The Walking Dead
Location: Southern California

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by gunsandrockets » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:50 am

A sword is to medieval weapons what a handgun is to firearms.

Yeah, swords are wonderfully romantic and dramatic. But hardly a frontline weapon. So swords are never as important as all the popular attention that they attract might suggest.

Which sword is best, can be an interesting discussion. But ripped from any kind of real context, it becomes just a discussion of what the boundaries are of the unreal context.

For example, if the context prevents any kind of combat except one on one unarmored dueling, than obviously the rapier is the best sword. Seems like a reasonable enough assumption. Because If you can't have any weapons but swords, than why would you have armor? Or helmets? Or shields? Or organized warfare?
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

zero11010
* * *
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:24 pm

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by zero11010 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:25 pm

The type really hardly even matters. Skill will matter much more, and quality (including maintenance) of the tool will matter more than the shape of it as well.

If you're genuinely into the topic a youtube channel you may enjoy is skallagrim. There are plenty of martial arts that use swords and organizations that are devoted to relearning older forms of combat.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SkallagrimNilsson
http://www.hemaalliance.com/


If you're just talking about something to hang on a wall or stick in a corner somewhere with no intent of learning proper fighting technique, I'd go with a katana. For people who don't know shit about swords they're impressive looking.

You may also be entertained by the TV show Revolution or the show Into The Badlands.


User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by teotwaki » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:40 pm

Just don't require tights with the sword

Image
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

Close_enough
* * *
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:56 pm

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by Close_enough » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:14 pm

It's a toss up between two:
Infantry sabre. It was the last pattern of military swords intended for actual use on the battle field, and the dominant design since the demise of plate armor. Very effective against an unarmored ot lightly armored opponent

Small sword. Not to be confused with the longer and heavier rapier which it evolved from. It wasn't a primary battlefield weapon, but an officers', dueling, and EDC sword. Easily carried, and being purely a parry and thrust weapon, was relatively simple to master making it a highly effective civilian street weapon. It was the last of the dueling weapon intended to kill instead of fighting to first blood (Italian dueling sabre, French Epee, German Moulinette).
Last edited by Close_enough on Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
shulatt
* *
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Virginia Beach

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by shulatt » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:25 pm

gunsandrockets wrote:For example, if the context prevents any kind of combat except one on one unarmored dueling, than obviously the rapier is the best sword. Seems like a reasonable enough assumption.
An interesting article related to rapier combat and it's weaknesses and strengths.

TL;DR version pretty much amounts to the rapier being the firearm equivalent of a .22lr. Yep, it'll kill you just as dead, but it's going to take a lot more shots and/or much more precision in strikes (aka. more training to use effectively), and even then your opponent will still be functional for a longer period of time. This is also almost exclusively when fighting an unarmored or very lightly armored opponent. Primarily used by civilians in "cultured" settings.
A heavier blade essentially combines cutting ability with blunt force trauma, the firearm equivalent more in line with the .45ACP. While slower to follow up and less maneuverable, the strikes that do land are much more effective in disabling your opponent quickly even through light to moderate armors. Much more in line with weapons of war.

User avatar
shulatt
* *
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Virginia Beach

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by shulatt » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:38 pm

Close_enough wrote:It's a toss up between two:
Infantry sabre. It was the last pattern of military swords intended for actual use on the battle field, and the dominant design since the demise of plate armor. Very effective against an unarmored ot lightly armored opponent

Small sword. The .38 snubbie of it's day. Intended purely as a civilian personal defense weapon. Easily carried and mastered, and highly lethal due to it's proclivity to poking deep holes in people. Not a dueling or infantry sword.
I'd have to disagree with the "Easily carried and mastered" idea.
I totally agree with more easily carried, but will argue the easily mastered part. Keep in mind that carrying any type of sword was most commonly limited to the nobility or upper classes (those rich enough to want to look like nobility and the means to afford it.) These were the people who had enough free time and money to spend learning the cultured art of the sword as well as the people most likely to actually need a small sword to 'defend their honor'.
The common lower to middle class folk not only weren't likely to be able to afford a sword, they also didn't have any significant amount of free time or funds to be able to afford someone to train them (IF they could find a fencing master willing to train a peasant.) These folks 'defended their honor' with fist and/or knife.

Close_enough
* * *
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:56 pm

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by Close_enough » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:52 pm

shulatt wrote:
I'd have to disagree with the "Easily carried and mastered" idea.
I totally agree with more easily carried, but will argue the easily mastered part. Keep in mind that carrying any type of sword was most commonly limited to the nobility or upper classes .
I trained with foil in college, which was intended as a training for small sword, and found it simple compared to the to the systems designed for the hacking in addition to parry and thrust. There are only four lines of attack, four guards, three parries, and four feints. There were an additional 5 or 6 guards needed against hacking weapons, but not used against other foils.

EDIT: Either way, we're not talking about social classes, but the best choice for a sword after the bullets run out.

User avatar
shulatt
* *
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Virginia Beach

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by shulatt » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:07 pm

Close_enough wrote:
shulatt wrote:
I'd have to disagree with the "Easily carried and mastered" idea.
I totally agree with more easily carried, but will argue the easily mastered part. Keep in mind that carrying any type of sword was most commonly limited to the nobility or upper classes .
I trained with foil in college, which was intended as a training for small sword, and found it simple compared to the to the systems designed for the hacking in addition to parry and thrust. There are only four lines of attack, four guards, three parries, and four feints. There were an additional 5 or 6 guards needed against hacking weapons, but not used against other foils.
I trained more with heavier weapons back when I was doing medieval re-creation before I started fencing. When I did take up fencing I gravitated more to epee than foil. I didn't get into saber as much for precisely the reason you said... more complexity of attack and response. With that said, even though less complex than saber, foil and epee still require a fair bit of training and practice to learn to use effectively. Also, modern fencing only mimics stylized dueling. Both rapier and smallsword did have useful cutting edges albeit much less used for primary attacks and considerably less effective than sabers. I've done a bit of 'fencing in the round' meant more to mimic rapier combat and the difference in style is pretty significant vs. fencing inline.

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 17060
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by raptor » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:09 pm

A rocket pack and scissors is my choice...(see avatar :D )

In the very, very unlikely event I need a sword I have very nice and sharp 20 inch long machete I use a lot as well as an 1890 style CPO cutlass which I keep in usable condition. My plan would be to use both the machete for chopping and the cutlass for cut and thrush attacks.

My preferred weapon though would be a 5 foot long section of 1/4 inch galvanized pipe with the end sharpened a la a large hypodermic needle. It could be used as a staff, bat and lance.
Last edited by raptor on Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Close_enough
* * *
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:56 pm

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by Close_enough » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:10 pm

ManInBlack316 wrote:Do rather large machetes count as knife or swords?
Serious here :oh:
Swords. They're big enough the weapons length and momentum is a major factor in your technique. Knives tend to be light enough and short enough that it's a minor factor.

User avatar
shulatt
* *
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Virginia Beach

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by shulatt » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:13 pm

Close_enough wrote:
EDIT: Either way, we're not talking about social classes, but the best choice for a sword after the bullets run out.
Social class is still somewhat relevant as far as available time and the expense of equipment and training. I'll concede that it's much less of a factor now than historically.
Discussing which sword is "best" is hugely dependant on which you have the most ability and/or training with.

User avatar
ManInBlack316
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 677
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:28 pm
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by ManInBlack316 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:11 pm

I'll take a Kukri Machete then, if we're at the point of no firearms and I'm still alive, I'm probably doing a lot of tasks by hand (i.e. constructing fortifications, cutting firewood, ect.) and it would be helpful to have a weapon that is also a decent tool.

User avatar
The Twizzler
* * * * *
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:47 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead
Return of the Living Dead
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by The Twizzler » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:44 pm

I would say it has to be longer than the length from finger tip to elbow.

ManInBlack316 wrote:Do rather large machetes count as knife or swords?
Serious here :oh:
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

User avatar
The Twizzler
* * * * *
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:47 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead
Return of the Living Dead
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by The Twizzler » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:00 pm

raptor wrote:A rocket pack and scissors is my choice...(see avatar :D )

In the very, very unlikely event I need a sword I have very nice and sharp 20 inch long machete I use a lot as well as an 1890 style CPO cutlass which I keep in usable condition. My plan would be to use both the machete for chopping and the cutlass for cut and thrush attacks.
So what do you do if you have to open a door to search a room?

My preferred weapon though would be a 5 foot long section of 1/4 inch galvanized pipe with the end sharpened a la a large hypodermic needle. It could be used as a staff, bat and lance.
A bat maybe. A staff is good because it's light, quick, and maneuverable while giving good reach and a lance because it it easy to hold one handed while riding a horse also it can break where as with a pipe it's gonna break your wrist instead. No one ever used a lance on foot at least not intentionaly. Just constructive cristicsm feel free to reply in kind to my posts. :D
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

User avatar
The Twizzler
* * * * *
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:47 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead
Return of the Living Dead
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by The Twizzler » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:12 pm

My choices in order
1. Saber- it gives good reach, while primarily a slashing blade it can be used as a thrust weapon. Many saber's have a sharpened swedge on the back of the blade so I can reach around a block and cut with that.
2.Shamshir- while traditionally only used in a slashing method because of the deep curve of the blade when they cut they bite a lot deeper than other swords. They served the muslim armies quite well in the crusades and spread of Islam. Also probably the easiest sword to use for a novice IMHO.
3. Rapier- The longest blade on the list assuming no one takes a Zweihander(6 feet long and heavy). Sure you are gonna need a lot of practice but if you are good you can stay well out of the enemy's range and poke away. It also gives the best sword hand protection of all the choices. They have just as much steel as a Bastard sword it's just stretched longer and thinner.
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 3282
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: We are all out of ammo. What type of sword is best after

Post by flybynight » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:56 pm

raptor wrote:A rocket pack and scissors is my choice...(see avatar :D )

.
Well in that case, I'll take a raptor, Hell I take a whole herd of raptors . Trained to be my bodyguards.
Not all those who wander are lost

John Titor was right

Post Reply

Return to “Other Weapons”