Stainless bushcraft-type knife

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Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by roscoe » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:25 pm

OK, I see that there is a certain amount of low regard for stainless steel blades, especially in the bushcraft group. And I get that carbon steel is superior in many regards. However, if one is hiking for weeks through rainforest, things, once wet, never really get dry. And there are so many other things to worry about in a deep rainforest, so I don't want to have to fuss over my knife every two hours. I have been looking at stainless 4-5" blades and it looks like the Benchmade and the Esee-4 are the most highly regarded. Any thoughts on which is likely to hold up better? I notice that Esee will not warrant their stainless blades. And since I will be FAR from any help, I need to not have to worry about the thing breaking on me.

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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by Sworbeyegib » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:18 pm

You may want to consider a semi stainless tool steel, like D2. Or possibly a high quality laminated stainless blade like those made from Fallkniven or Cold Steel.
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by ineffableone » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:30 pm

I think a big question might be, how often are you wandering about in a rainforest? If you don't have much chance of being in one, then you really don't need to stress on the issue.

I grew up in and live in the Pac NW and yet still have mostly High Carbon knives. Not because of any bias on my part, but because a lot of knives I want don't have stainless options. Having grown up in the Pac NW you just learn to care for your metal objects, and make sure they aren't gathering rust. You learn to keep them dry and to dry them off if they get wet. You learn to give them good oil coatings, and you make sure to inspect them regularly.

That said I do agree that there is a lot of distrust of stainless steel and even myths about it. Like my stainless Opinel strikes my ferro rod just fine even though for some reason a lot of people think you need high carbon steel to strike a ferro rod. Stainless has some good uses, and there are plenty of decent stainless blades out there for sure. Though there is also a lot of crappy stainless too.
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by The Twizzler » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:54 pm

You might look at the Mora series of knives they are cheap, sharp, and have good ergos. You could probably buy 5 for those other brands you mentioned. If you lose one or someone you are with doesn't have a knife you can just give them one. They have both stainless and carbon blades. I have never had a bad experience and I have owned three different ones.
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by The Twizzler » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:57 pm

Oh and if you are in the jungle you will lose a knife :ooh: all those trees and plants have sticky fingers. When this happens with an Essee (sp?) it'll all end in tears.
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by woodsghost » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:03 pm

Most people who live in rain forests use carbon steel. This can be seen in the daily use tools of peoples in those areas, particularly machetes, though any hand tool and most other tools will also be carbon steel. I would not worry much about it and as ineffableone said, learn to care for tools when in a rain forest.

I see your profile indicates you are from Arizona, so I don't suppose you will need much in the way of rain forest gear, but if traveling and you honestly want a stainless bushcraft knife, I'd look at the stainless Moras. There are a good number of those. If you are concerned about breakage or loss, then please consider buying 2 or 3.

If you are in or will soon be living in a rain forest I would look at the tools used by these two individuals:

http://www.youtube.com/user/junglecrafty/videos

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9nzMISTPLOjNffqJYlC8NA

They are both the real deal and quite incredible in their skill sets. The British sounding one is in the SE part of Asia some place and the American spends a lot of time in Brazil, if I remember right. Both use a heck of a lot of carbon steel, though junglecrafty might have a stainless Mora.
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by ineffableone » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:34 pm

BTW, another way to lower stress about keeping a high carbon steel blade from rusting, it to make it rust ahead of time. As in force a patina. All a patina is is rust. But a black kind of rust rather than a red one. There are lots of videos and sites explaining how to force a patina. Common methods are mustard or vinegar, it is actually the vinegar in the mustard btw that does the work.

With a patina on a blade you only have to worry about the sharpened edge rusting. The patina part will just further develop a better patina from moisture exposure.

There are of course all sorts of coatings for blades which similar to a patina make it so you only have the edge to tend to. Most tactical knives tend to have these coatings.
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:21 pm

Here are some basic ideas (forgive me if you know these, and also, I am no expert):

1. It's "stainless" not "stainfree". Stainless will rust, especially shitty stainless.
2. A good carbon steel blade will outlast a crappy stainless blade. It goes without saying that quality always wins no matter the "type"
3. Do you really need it? Is this a knife you really need for jungles or is this for fantasy time where you'd like to have one "just-in-case"
4. There is no perfect steel. If you want a good knife that's main feature is lack of rust, many times you will have to give up edge retention, hardness, sharpenability, etc.
5. If you want a rust-less knife blade of good quality, look at boating/dive/navy style knives. Salt water can destroy inferior metals, so there are some decent ones out there.
6. Consider a good coating instead of stainless. As others have said, there are many ways to get good corrosion resistance without sacrificing in other areas.

You can get a decent knife made out of high carbon stainless like the 400, Mo/MoV, and AUS series that can do everything OK.
I'd look hard at AUS8 and 440A steel knives.

I can think of some manufacturers to start with that are cheap with decent quality that make many stainless knives:
SOG, Schrade, Gerber, Ontario

http://www.amazon.com/Ontario-6141-Navy ... navy+knife

^^^^This would be my first choice in 440A

Also, I always refresh with this on wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_blade_materials
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by roscoe » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:39 pm

My apologies - a lot of folks think this is for Arizona. It is not. I will be part of a small primatology group exploring a relatively poorly known part of the West African rainforest - hoping to document the primates for conservation. We will be on foot for three weeks or so, carrying everything, as there are no towns nor roads in this area; due to the steep nature of the terrain, no one really wants to live there.

Since we will be carrying everything, weight is a huge concern, and basically nothing will be redundant - everything has to do its job without failing. With regard to the rust issue on other metal tools - this is correct, but the main tool of the continent, machetes, are basically never in a sheath, and they are plenty beat up. As folks have said, rust is only an issue on the actual cutting surface. I could care less if there is cosmetic rust, but a rusty edge is a dull edge. I have had trouble keeping my BK7 sharp in similar circumstances for this reason (and I have deemed it too heavy for this trip). Even if I haven't used it I have to worry about it rusting and inspect it, etc. The purpose of this trip is not to test gear.

The tools will be paid for with a grant, so the cost is less of an issue than having it fail. The moras do not seem as hefty as the Esee or Benchmade, and this will not be exclusively a bushcraft knife. In fact, it may have to serve many purposes other than just making feather sticks, including prying, hacking,etc. I am particularly interested in having it NOT look military or tactical - I don't want anyone we stumble across thinking I am part of some military group poking around the jungle.

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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by woodsghost » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:59 pm

Africa. Got it.

Please check out the links I posted. Here is a teaser:

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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:20 am

Oh man, you really do need a good knife then. I was wracking my brain trying to think what my MARSOC buddy recommends for "rust proof" knives, and I am pretty sure it's Spyderco.

They make a whole "salt" series that uses H1 steel that is supposedly actually rust proof. Not very bushcrafting but very utility.

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... roduct=934
I've found these online for about $100 if it's similar to what you are looking for.

And I found this Boker made in 440 but it's a little tactical

https://www.boker.de/us/fixed-blade-kni ... MB523.html
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by ineffableone » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:29 am

If I were opting for a stainless bushcraft knife.

My 1st choice would be the Helle Les Stroud temagami knife which they offer in both HC and SS. http://www.knifecenter.com/item/HE300/H ... her-Sheath not tactical and a practical good quality bushcraft blade.

2nd choice would be a Mora, they are great well proven durable knives.
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by roscoe » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:20 am

In the video he talks a lot about the parang. We will have a few machetes amongst us, at least, but there is no reason for us all to lug around those big hunks of steel. I will pick one up once arriving - they are ubiquitous in Africa.

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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by Woods Walker » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:14 pm

roscoe wrote:OK, I see that there is a certain amount of low regard for stainless steel blades, especially in the bushcraft group. And I get that carbon steel is superior in many regards. However, if one is hiking for weeks through rainforest, things, once wet, never really get dry. And there are so many other things to worry about in a deep rainforest, so I don't want to have to fuss over my knife every two hours. I have been looking at stainless 4-5" blades and it looks like the Benchmade and the Esee-4 are the most highly regarded. Any thoughts on which is likely to hold up better? I notice that Esee will not warrant their stainless blades. And since I will be FAR from any help, I need to not have to worry about the thing breaking on me.
I don't have a low regard for stainless knives in bushcraft. Just a low regard for shitty stainless steel knives in general. Here is a good stainless knife.


Image

Image

Two more good stainless knives. Heck I don't think that Mora put me back too much more than 12 bucks. LOL!

Image

ESEE knives are highly regarded. I am surprised they won't warranty their stainless blades.
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by drop bear » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:47 am

Schrade do stainless and have a fairly decent rep.

Falkniven is possibly the best rated stainless knives.

Otherwise mulay or aitor are pretty good as well.

(I have an aitor zero on order. If I ever get it)

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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by The Twizzler » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:47 pm

Pardon my ignorance but... I live in the south so my snow experience is practically nill. I always thought even though we all know snow is just frozen water that snowy conditions are often quite dry and therfore Carbon blades were just fine. Am I mistaken?







Woods Walker wrote:
roscoe wrote:OK, I see that there is a certain amount of low regard for stainless steel blades, especially in the bushcraft group. And I get that carbon steel is superior in many regards. However, if one is hiking for weeks through rainforest, things, once wet, never really get dry. And there are so many other things to worry about in a deep rainforest, so I don't want to have to fuss over my knife every two hours. I have been looking at stainless 4-5" blades and it looks like the Benchmade and the Esee-4 are the most highly regarded. Any thoughts on which is likely to hold up better? I notice that Esee will not warrant their stainless blades. And since I will be FAR from any help, I need to not have to worry about the thing breaking on me.
I don't have a low regard for stainless knives in bushcraft. Just a low regard for shitty stainless steel knives in general. Here is a good stainless knife.


Image

Image

Two more good stainless knives. Heck I don't think that Mora put me back too much more than 12 bucks. LOL!

Image

ESEE knives are highly regarded. I am surprised they won't warranty their stainless blades.
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by Denis J. » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:51 am

I may be biased as its the knife I use & love, but I think the Fallkniven F1 would fit your needs extreemly well. The laminated stainless steel gives a good combination of sharpness & durability and the knife wieghs in at 150 g (6 oz). Combine it with the zytel sheath and I think you have a good tool that will handle the wet environment well.

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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by teotwaki » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:55 pm

I am trying out this rust prevention product on my carbon steel knives. They claim "navy seals" use it so it has to be great, right? :words:

http://www.amazon.com/Marine-TUF-CLOTH- ... XTGXN1VR3W

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Some links to other forums talking about Marine Tuf Cloth and also mention it is not food safe. Eezox is a similar product. Froglube is supposed to be food safe.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... -Tuf-Cloth
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... st-round-2
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... -products/
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Re: Stainless bushcraft-type knife

Post by teotwaki » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:08 pm

roscoe wrote:My apologies - a lot of folks think this is for Arizona. It is not. I will be part of a small primatology group exploring a relatively poorly known part of the West African rainforest - hoping to document the primates for conservation. We will be on foot for three weeks or so, carrying everything, as there are no towns nor roads in this area; due to the steep nature of the terrain, no one really wants to live there. ----snip----
http://www.junglecraft.com.my/index.php/junglecraft/ Maylasian jungle advice

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