Carrying a dirty gun.

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BeachNutJim
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Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by BeachNutJim » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:59 pm

Got pulled over in St. Petersburg, FL after a Super Bowl party in January. My vehicle matched the description of one that had been involved in a drive-by shooting. Surrounded by 7 squad cars, and asked to exit my truck, I told the LEO that I had a loaded .45 auto in the console. I have a concealed carry permit. The LEO sticks his pinky finger down the barrel (something I would NEVER do) and says "it's clean." A minute later I was on my way. What all would I have had to deal with if the gun was dirty? One more reason to clean your gun after EVERY visit to the range!
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by JTNieman » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:03 pm

it's clean = no reason to ask another question, apparently.

If it were dirty, he might have asked another question and continued his investigation of who you are and where you were.

I think that's about it.

Dirty gun is nothing.

Also, this was in January, and you just now are looking into it? Also, you signed up to ZS just to ask that? lol.

Welcome to the forum, man. I don't waste time cleaning my gun after every shoot though... that'd be way too much time wasted :\

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by FanaticalModerate » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:19 pm

Welcome to ZS!
Makes sense to me. If I were driving straight home from the range and was in a hurry, I likely would not clean the weapon, but this makes good sense in the context of the a "truck gun" who's purpose is to reside in that center console.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:37 pm

It's something I probably wouldn't have thought about. (My pistol is clean, though. :) )

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Stercutus » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:45 pm

He might have been looking for a shooter. Clearly you either were not the shooter or were anal retentive enough to not be able to handle having a dirty weapon.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by liberty45 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:47 pm

Those LEO where very professional crime solvers... :roll:

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Chef » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:11 pm

Note to self: keep weapons clean. Okay, done. 8)

Hey new guy: does your handle pertain to the old Beach Nuts bar on St. Pete Beach?

I was always more of a Normans/Undertow/Harp 'n' Thistle guy, myself.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by FrANkNstEin » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:25 pm

Those LEO where very professional crime solvers... :roll:
abso-fucking-lutely :roll:

I clean my guns when i get home though....


That being said: a ex-school friend of me (27y.o)who´s a LEO just managed to arrest a guy who carried out multiple bank robberies in the last 1,5 years this very week. (about 7 robberies!)

I´m very proud of him! :D (he´s just a small town LEO, nothing fancy, and he did it alone. So even more reason to be proud of him)

ETA: friggin typos, because of the fucking rum i hat..... (it´s one in the morning where i live) :wink:
Last edited by FrANkNstEin on Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by BeachNutJim » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:28 pm

To Chef: The Beach Nut reference was to my having lived on Indian Rocks Beach, not the bar in St Pete.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by nasonguy » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:45 pm

Interesting, I would have liked to know how it would have played out had the gun been dirty.

FWIW, I hardly ever clean my glock. And guess what, it works flawlessly, and it's action is smooth like butter.

Last time I cleaned it was like, 4 months ago, which is roughly a dozen range sessions... give or take... Something like 150 to 200 rds per range session... So it's got about 2000 rds down it's throat, and no issues. Meh, it's a glock. haha.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by J.C. » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:50 pm

I think its good advice to clean your carry gun, especially if you live in a notification state. Still, he should not be able to examine your weapon without probable cause. That is a search.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Power Fail » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:17 pm

I'm wondering if smelling it wouldn't have been a better test. Dirty or not, if it had just been fired, I imagine you could tell a lot more by smelling it than fingering it. Yeah, I said it.

I also doubt that Mr. Driveby would tell the officers about the gun. Nor would he be likely to have reloaded the pistol, presumably with good quality hollow points.

Though who's to say that the OP hypothetically WAS the shooter, he just didn't happen to use that particular gun?
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by crypto » Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:12 pm

J.C. wrote:I think its good advice to clean your carry gun, especially if you live in a notification state. Still, he should not be able to examine your weapon without probable cause. That is a search.
Im willing to bet that the OP consented to the search and allowed the officer to search the glove box and pistol.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Pondo_Sinatra » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:18 am

crypto wrote:
J.C. wrote:I think its good advice to clean your carry gun, especially if you live in a notification state. Still, he should not be able to examine your weapon without probable cause. That is a search.
Im willing to bet that the OP consented to the search and allowed the officer to search the glove box and pistol.
I don't know how things are in NC, but I live in a notification state, and law enforcement here can take possession of the firearm for the duration of the stop (and have, in a few cases that I've read about).

I'm not well versed in legalese, but it seems that probable cause is established by the notification requirement, same as if you would have told the officer that you had a bag/jar/potato sack full of whatever in your trunk.

And I've never cleaned my carry gun the times that I've shot it at the range. May have to start bringing at least a bore snake with me. Hm.

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Czechnology » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:59 pm

Funnily enough I had my first in-car encounter with an LEO while armed about 10 days ago. (I've encountered many Fairfax County and VA Troopers while open carrying with zero problems)

I had been driving around in the ritzy part of the area all morning, where you can treat a stop sign like a yield so long as you're turning right. I then took a car full of friends (4 loaded pistols total in the car) to get pizza. Well, right at the bottom of the hill, where the ritzy neighborhood ends, and the industrial one full of homeless people begins, there's both a stop sign, and a police station.

Yeah I blew RIGHT through it, 10ft from a cop. The second I saw the car I said "SHIT. I'M NOT IN WEST LINN ANYMORE." Pretty much immediately my friend in the passenger seat starts verbally going through the "I'm a nice guy who happens to be carrying a gun, here's my ID and my hands are clearly visible and not moving" speech I think everyone who carries goes over once in a while. Everyone in the back seat begins calling me an idiot.

The cop pulls out and tails me to the next turn, where I start to pull over right before his lights come on. I park the car, turn it off, and put the keys on the dashboard. I put my hands on the wheel and as the cop walks up I say "I totally blew that stopsign officer, I'm sorry." He laughs.

"You just come from West Linn (fancy area)? I bet your friends were tearing you a new one." He laughs again, and looks completely relaxed, so I ditch the script and go with my standard: Overt Honesty. (immediately admitting what I'd been doing wrong and being polite has gotten me out of several large speeding tickets in the past)
"Yes sir, I've been turning right through stopsigns all day and I just plain forgot, I'm sorry."
"Your friends probably already read you the riot act, huh?"
"Yes sir, I just was on autopilot, I'm sorry."
"Welp, can I see your license and registration?"
"Yes sir here you go." (I hand him both, with my CHL on top of my DL).
"What's this?" (He sounds genuinely confused as he looks @ my CHL)
"My license to carry a handgun concealed in the state of OR."
"Oh cool, you can have that back."
(stunned) "Uh, ok thanks!"

He wrote me a warning, never broke his chill demeanor, and told my friends to go easy on me.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by J.C. » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:45 pm

Pondo_Sinatra wrote:
crypto wrote:
J.C. wrote:I think its good advice to clean your carry gun, especially if you live in a notification state. Still, he should not be able to examine your weapon without probable cause. That is a search.
Im willing to bet that the OP consented to the search and allowed the officer to search the glove box and pistol.
I don't know how things are in NC, but I live in a notification state, and law enforcement here can take possession of the firearm for the duration of the stop (and have, in a few cases that I've read about).

I'm not well versed in legalese, but it seems that probable cause is established by the notification requirement, same as if you would have told the officer that you had a bag/jar/potato sack full of whatever in your trunk.

And I've never cleaned my carry gun the times that I've shot it at the range. May have to start bringing at least a bore snake with me. Hm.
Taking possession of your firearm and even making it safe is not the same as examining it. Telling the officer that you are legalling carrying as required by law does not forfeit your 4th amendment rights.

I should have clarified, I do expect the OP consented to the search but just pointing out that you do not have to, and that I wouldn't.

I doubt this cop was really so stupid as to thing that examining one gun that was volunteered to him would "clear" an actual suspect, but in all likelihood the OP was never an actual suspect, he was just a stop made so the cop could report he did something about the call.
squinty wrote: Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim, zombies gotta shuffle around and eatcher brains. Why do sharks eat divers? Why not swim around and starve to death?
Why do tornadoes zero in on trailer parks? Why not just blow around harmlessly? It's the way of the world, man.

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Stercutus » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:41 pm

Czechnology- I don't think I will be riding with you. Stopping for stop signs is one of those traffic laws I am in favor of. I actually have a team mate who will follow people around who don't stop at stop signs and berate them for their poor driving skills if they stop at a public place. This is a terrible idea too, but I can't talk him out of it.

State laws vary greatly on searches, CHLs and consent.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by J.C. » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:16 pm

Blacksmith wrote: State laws vary greatly on searches, CHLs and consent.
State laws have nothing to do with probable cause or consent to search.
squinty wrote: Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim, zombies gotta shuffle around and eatcher brains. Why do sharks eat divers? Why not swim around and starve to death?
Why do tornadoes zero in on trailer parks? Why not just blow around harmlessly? It's the way of the world, man.

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Czechnology » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:50 pm

Blacksmith wrote:Czechnology- I don't think I will be riding with you. Stopping for stop signs is one of those traffic laws I am in favor of. I actually have a team mate who will follow people around who don't stop at stop signs and berate them for their poor driving skills if they stop at a public place. This is a terrible idea too, but I can't talk him out of it.

State laws vary greatly on searches, CHLs and consent.
Yeah that is a terrible idea. I now stop @ those stop signs up on the hill anyway, simply because I never want to repeat the above experience.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Pondo_Sinatra » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:19 am

J.C. wrote:
Pondo_Sinatra wrote:
crypto wrote:
J.C. wrote:I think its good advice to clean your carry gun, especially if you live in a notification state. Still, he should not be able to examine your weapon without probable cause. That is a search.
Im willing to bet that the OP consented to the search and allowed the officer to search the glove box and pistol.
I don't know how things are in NC, but I live in a notification state, and law enforcement here can take possession of the firearm for the duration of the stop (and have, in a few cases that I've read about).

I'm not well versed in legalese, but it seems that probable cause is established by the notification requirement, same as if you would have told the officer that you had a bag/jar/potato sack full of whatever in your trunk.

And I've never cleaned my carry gun the times that I've shot it at the range. May have to start bringing at least a bore snake with me. Hm.
Taking possession of your firearm and even making it safe is not the same as examining it. Telling the officer that you are legalling carrying as required by law does not forfeit your 4th amendment rights.

I should have clarified, I do expect the OP consented to the search but just pointing out that you do not have to, and that I wouldn't.

I doubt this cop was really so stupid as to thing that examining one gun that was volunteered to him would "clear" an actual suspect, but in all likelihood the OP was never an actual suspect, he was just a stop made so the cop could report he did something about the call.
Again, I have no idea what actual case law may or may not say about this. I do, however, know of at least one case of a gentleman who was disarmed during a traffic stop, and the police officer took the firearm back to the cruiser with him, along with the guy's CHL, DL, and registration.

When he returned with the gun and the guy's documentation, he sorta casually mentioned that he "ran the numbers and the gun came back clean" (or something to that effect).

I wonder what would have happened if the gun had come back as stolen? I ask because I don't know, and as far as I know, there haven't been any cases like this in a notification state...

I don't know about all the ins and outs about probable cause. But again I have to say that it seems to me that probable cause is established when you admit to carrying a firearm, much as if you had admitted to carrying explosives or drugs. I understand that it's not really the same thing because the law forces you to tell LEO that you are armed, and NOT doing so results in penalties, but is it legally the same thing? No idea.

Not really trying to argue, I'm just simply not sure. I'd love to read up on some legal precedent or see some cases on this. Something like that would be very relevant to my interests.

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by FanaticalModerate » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:02 am

Pondo_Sinatra wrote:Not really trying to argue, I'm just simply not sure. I'd love to read up on some legal precedent or see some cases on this. Something like that would be very relevant to my interests.
He hasn't appeared in this thread, but in my book, Istvan56 is pretty much the go-to guy for questions like this! A search with "istvan56" as author and police stop law would likely pull up some info.
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Jaybow » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:11 pm

Funny I had the same thing happen to me about 10 years ago while at a backyard campfire party. Cops were responding to shots fired and approached us and asked if we had firearms. Honestly I could have kept quiet but said I had a revolver in my truck. The deputy took out the shells and sniffed the barrel and cylinder to see if it had been fired. It had not recently and they were on their way.

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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by Finch » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:25 pm

note to self: clean guns after committing homicides
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Re: Carrying a dirty gun.

Post by NidStyles » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:08 am

J.C. wrote:
Blacksmith wrote: State laws vary greatly on searches, CHLs and consent.
State laws have nothing to do with probable cause or consent to search.
The state law that permit's CCW is the law that matter's. A lot of the law's are written so the officer can take positive control of the firearm for the duration of the stop for his own safety, and to run the proper check's to make sure your CCW is valid, and that your firearm is legal.

Not all states have this, but most of the 30 reciprocity ones do. This is on state level, and The Constitution has no bearing on extension's of law that each state can have in accordance to CCW issuance and regulation. The Constitution expressively allow's each state to regulate this sort of thing, as long as it does not violate The Constitution itself. Which is does not. It's not like they don't know you have firearm before you walk up in the first place. Odd's are unless your CCW, or whatever you state call's it, is new, it's linked with your Driver's License and registration of vehicle.

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