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 Post subject: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:38 pm 
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I used to carry it for awhile back in 06-07 but stopped carrying it.

I figure I may start carrying it again since I don't have a CCW and it's near impossible to get one here. (I live in LA County)

If involved in a hostile situation I can't always pull my knives out.

So spray would be a good alternative once again.

CS/OC combination is the best (Freeze+P or Sabre red 3-in-1).

What do you guys carry if you do carry?


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:55 pm 
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When possible I do carry this 60 gram triple action OC/tear gas fogger in addition to my CCW.
http://www.mace.com/index.php/product/index/id/22

I chose this since it has the protected trigger. It is small enough to be innocuous whil it holds more than the key chain cans. I prefer the fogger since accuracy is not as critical. However the fogger is more affected by any breeze and clearly delivers the spray over a wider area hence less gets in any one place.

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:57 pm 
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Sabre Red is nasty stuff...I'd carry that around if I couldn't carry a gun, just make sure you get away from whoever you spray with it! cuz they are not going to be happy campers. :evil:

I carry a Glock 23, Boot knife, and my own two fists of fury. Got a couple back up guns, a tazer, a baseball bat, flare gun and a baton in the truck. If all that doesn't stop whats coming after me and I still haven't gotten away then I also have a bible, a flask of whiskey thats been blessed by my priest, and an emergancy cigar...hopefully be able to lock myself in the truck long enough to enjoy those last two.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:02 pm 
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My concealed permit is expired so I Open Carry which is legal here in La. While I have a handgun, I like the idea of less than lethal options so I often carry a canister of Freeze+P in addition ot my pistol. It's the same stuff we used when I was a State Corrections Officer. I've seen what it can do to pissed off muscle bound inmates and trust it for street use.

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Lmao! @ waiting in the car with that last Cigar. That's some movie stuff lol.

If they person is high on drugs or mentally unstable then it may not work. Yet if the person is normal then they'll be stopped in their tracks.

Especially if its a mixture of CS/OC like Freeze+p or Sabre.

I have a 3/4oz of Sabre Red 3in1 spray still in the package for my GF.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:09 pm 
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DarkScythe wrote:
Lmao! @ waiting in the car with that last Cigar. That's some movie stuff lol.


hey man...if the truck is blocked in and wont run and I got 10,000 zombies outside tryin to get in to eat my brains then hell yes I'm going to try to enjoy that last bit of holy whiskey & the cigar!!! :D

thats what being prepared is all about!


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:13 pm 
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yale wrote:
My concealed permit is expired so I Open Carry which is legal here in La. While I have a handgun, I like the idea of less than lethal options so I often carry a canister of Freeze+P in addition ot my pistol. It's the same stuff we used when I was a State Corrections Officer. I've seen what it can do to pissed off muscle bound inmates and trust it for street use.
I actually work for a SD.

Yet since I'm not sworn I can't carry. I do the exact same job as the Deputies at my facility and have the same amount of contact with inmates.

We are issued Freeze+p also.

I used it once back on January 2nd against an inmate. It didn't seem to affect him much. Then again I rushed straight in for hands on contact after spraying him.

So now I know to let it take affect first if I have time to do so.

Also I think I didn't get a full direct face blast as he turned his head to the side somewhat.

I still trust it so far but I won't let it give me a false sense of security. Its a tool to help out.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Doc J wrote:
DarkScythe wrote:
Lmao! @ waiting in the car with that last Cigar. That's some movie stuff lol.


hey man...if the truck is blocked in and wont run and I got 10,000 zombies outside tryin to get in to eat my brains then hell yes I'm going to try to enjoy that last bit of holy whiskey & the cigar!!! :D

thats what being prepared is all about!

I figure if I'm gonna go out!

Why not blow up the truck and take some zombies with me lol.
Right when that one persistent zombie breaks the glass and sticks his head in *smile and say "what's up?"*

Then BOOM!


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:05 pm 
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For those wanting to buy Freeze +P you can go to www.defensivechemicals.com

Or use yahoo/google to search around.

I purchased the SabreRed 3in1 from BrigadeQuartermasters.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Nope, won't do it.

I am not a LEO, I don't have to abide by the force continuum or pyramid.

Personally if I'm going to defend myself or anyone, its only if I think my or their lives are in jeopardy.

Violence will be met with violence. I don't believe in "non lethal" or "less lethal" threats.

No its not a "rambo" mentality or machismo. Its just a matter of how I was raised.

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:10 pm 
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Mangangali wrote:
Nope, won't do it.

I am not a LEO, I don't have to abide by the force continuum or pyramid.

Personally if I'm going to defend myself or anyone, its only if I think my or their lives are in jeopardy.

Violence will be met with violence. I don't believe in "non lethal" or "less lethal" threats.

No its not a "rambo" mentality or machismo. Its just a matter of how I was raised.
Well you live in Texas so you can get away with much more than in other places.

Either way every situation doesn't call for extreme violence or lethal force.

Now nobody is saying by carrying OC that they won't handle their shit.

It just gives you more options in hostile situations and you'll answer less questions etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:35 pm 
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DarkScythe wrote:

Well you live in Texas so you can get away with much more than in other places.

Either way every situation doesn't call for extreme violence or lethal force.

Now nobody is saying by carrying OC that they won't handle their shit.

It just gives you more options in hostile situations and you'll answer less questions etc.


Texas is just where I landed, I grew up overseas in less civilized countries.

I have no problem answering any questions if there is a reason to defend myself or another I welcome the inquiry from LEO here in the States.

I'm perfectly happy to beat feet (run/walk away) if I can. But as I said, Violence is met with violence.

OC is an option that MAY or MAY NOT work. It incapacitates some, but others it just gives a bad day.

Serial Rapists are known to acclimate themselves to OC as are other criminals.

As for options, yes it provides another one, but I prefer BFT (end of my flashlight or even a full water bottle) to carrying yet another doodad (already have gun/knife/mags/flashlight/cellphone/keys/etc etc)

Now I've bought OC in different forms for folks I know that refuse to carry either a knife or a gun, I'm not going to knock that it CAN work and be a useful tool.

Its just not a tool thats in my toolbox.

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:57 pm 
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Mangangali wrote:
DarkScythe wrote:

Well you live in Texas so you can get away with much more than in other places.

Either way every situation doesn't call for extreme violence or lethal force.

Now nobody is saying by carrying OC that they won't handle their shit.

It just gives you more options in hostile situations and you'll answer less questions etc.


Texas is just where I landed, I grew up overseas in less civilized countries.

I have no problem answering any questions if there is a reason to defend myself or another I welcome the inquiry from LEO here in the States.

I'm perfectly happy to beat feet (run/walk away) if I can. But as I said, Violence is met with violence.

OC is an option that MAY or MAY NOT work. It incapacitates some, but others it just gives a bad day.

Serial Rapists are known to acclimate themselves to OC as are other criminals.

As for options, yes it provides another one, but I prefer BFT (end of my flashlight or even a full water bottle) to carrying yet another doodad (already have gun/knife/mags/flashlight/cellphone/keys/etc etc)

Now I've bought OC in different forms for folks I know that refuse to carry either a knife or a gun, I'm not going to knock that it CAN work and be a useful tool.

Its just not a tool thats in my toolbox.

Oh yea most definately they'll meet the end of my illumination device.

Lol.

If most Rapist are acclimating themselves to OC, I wonder how many are acclimating themselves to OC/CS.

Chemical agents, Impact weapons, personal weapons and if need be lethal force.

If met outright by a person intent on serious bodily harm then I'm using everything to neutralize the threat.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:27 pm 
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DarkScythe wrote:
If most Rapist are acclimating themselves to OC, I wonder how many are acclimating themselves to OC/CS.


Never said most, said serial rapists. you got to remember that convicts that are incarcerated are just the ones that got caught.

DarkScythe wrote:
If met outright by a person intent on serious bodily harm then I'm using everything to neutralize the threat.


Here's the crux, how do you tell the guy thats "intent on serious bodily harm" from the guy that just wants to mug you, or the guy that just wants to beat you in a bar fight?. I can't. Once violence is started its damned hard to dial it down. Thats why I stated, I don't believe in "less lethal" or "non lethal" threats. A threat is a threat. Violence is violence. Only difference is in scale, how far up, or down it can go.

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:42 pm 
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I use pepper spray on a very regular basis, and most of the time it is an awesome tool.

A few things to remember if you're planning to use it:

- It affects everyone differently. I've seen pepper spray turn giant, muscle-bound men into whimpering babies, but I've also seen tiny, 100lbs females that didn't even bat an eye after being sprayed. Drugs and alcohol can also reduce the affectiveness of pepper spray.

- It is going to take some time for the spray to truely take affect. In my experience, I'd say that the "bad guy" really won't start to respond to the spray for at least 45 seconds. If the adrenalin is pumping, it could take even longer.

- In about 80% of the cases where I use my spray, it ends up blowing back, and affecting me as well. If you're planning to use/carry pepper spray, I strongly suggest you find out how you'll react to being sprayed. I've known a good number of LEO's that wouldn't carry/use pepper spray because of how severly it affected them.

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:49 pm 
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I always have some if I am in a situation where I can't carry my CW (usually when I am getting bombed).

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:09 am 
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I own one and i carry it where ever i go..just to defense my self.. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:26 am 
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michael clark wrote:
I own one and i carry it where ever i go..just to defense my self.. :twisted:

Holy Thread Revival, Batman! :D Welcome to ZS.

Where in the PH are you located?

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:57 am 
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Just to throw out there, in CA there is a size restriction. The legal container size must be equal to or below 2.5 ounces of active product.

http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/pages/california-laws

Before I got a CHL I use to carry pepper spray often. Thankfully I never used. Most of my stuff is long expired and I think I need to look into buying some. I would definitely avoid junk brands that sell for cheap. Get whatever the guys in LE are saying they use.


woohhaa just noticed.....

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:46 pm 
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DarkScythe wrote:
Doc J wrote:
DarkScythe wrote:
Lmao! @ waiting in the car with that last Cigar. That's some movie stuff lol.


hey man...if the truck is blocked in and wont run and I got 10,000 zombies outside tryin to get in to eat my brains then hell yes I'm going to try to enjoy that last bit of holy whiskey & the cigar!!! :D

thats what being prepared is all about!

I figure if I'm gonna go out!

Why not blow up the truck and take some zombies with me lol.
Right when that one persistent zombie breaks the glass and sticks his head in *smile and say "what's up?"*

Then BOOM!


IDK Have you ever gotten cigar smoke in your eyes? The cheaper the cigar the closer to CS gas it is.

As for my AO, if you spray someone with CS gas and they go blind, run into traffic, fall down a well, etc., you are responsible. This is also the reason (and cost of ammo) I don't take warning shots.

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:20 pm 
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My daughter and I carry Sabre Red. It's the brand used by LEOs in my area. I got my first can from a local constable.


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:24 am 
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Sabre Red Crossfire Gel, and don't look back. Look up the "Crossfire" technology and you'll understand why I recommend it. This is what I carry at work.

Some people seem to think that this stuff (gel and foam) could be wiped off and flung back at you. Frankly, this seems silly. When they wipe it, they're simply smearing it around on their face. Congratulations: they've intensified the effects of the OC, spreading it thinly over a larger area. And they can't fling it as far as you can spray it (although you'll probably be close enough that they'd hit you with it.) Let's hope they enjoyed wiping it into their own eyes!!!

That said, there is technique involved with the use of OC spray. Take a class (or more) and practice using inert canisters. Also, brush up on your H2H combatives, you'll probably need to use that too.

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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:18 pm 
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I carry OC spray to deal with aggressive dogs which brain dead Seattleites are incapable of restraining (with that said, a truly violent dog will not get OC, it will get a Speer GoldDot). I also carry OC spray for the rare occasions I cannot carry my primary or secondary firearms (Glock 26 Gen 4, Kel-Tec P32 Gen 2).


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 Post subject: Re: Carrying OC spray?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:26 am 
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I've used OC on a large number of subjects (roughly 80 or so in the last two decades) as a LEO. Its good stuff, and seldom fails if you get it into the eyes and nose.

I would recommend if you are legally carrying it to choose your canister carefully; a lot of civilian canisters are poorly designed, and buttons can hang up, or worse, you can spray it with the nozzle facing yourself. I suggest expending a canister on a paint can or other head-sized target to get fully familiar with your unit.

Less-than-lethal is a good option for civilian self defense, even in Texas, where's I've been policing since the 80s.

Look at the Zimmerman trial for a good example of 'legal-but-expensive' incidents. The key to self defense is that no matter where you are, if you use force you will have to answer to a court. It won't be cheap, and it doesn't always go your way.

If you do regularly carry any sort of weapon or less-than-lethal device, make sure you only do so under legal circumstances, and be very, very, very careful whom you tell, what you tell, and the like. Particularly, avoid posting about it on Facebook or similar social media. You do not want a Grand Jury looking at a blown up photo of you grinning while holding up a pistol or a post or tweet or whatever announcing that you'll meet any attack with deadly force. It can color their perception of you.

More use of force cases by civilians are lost before the day of the incident than for any other reason. A lot of people forget that.

So monitor your Net and public habits, because they will be scrutinized closely if you do have to defend yourself.

Many/most states do not require you to retreat, but based on many cases, I would recommend that if you can retreat, do so. First because taking a Human life is nothing like Hollywood makes it appear, and second because even if you have to use force the fact that you attempted to withdraw will weigh heavily in your favor.

Just my two cents.

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