A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Blitzen2k5 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:18 pm

duodecima wrote:The "signs" are always "obvious" in retrospect - it's the predicting what human beings will do in the murky future that's tough.
We dont ever learn enough about them because we are so quick to throw em on a slab and stick a needle in their arm. I am all for the death penalty. But in cases like this, I dont care if the guy did know right from wrong, we need to study him not kill him. Kinda hard to study a guy when he is on death row.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:28 pm

Blitzen2k5 wrote:
duodecima wrote:The "signs" are always "obvious" in retrospect - it's the predicting what human beings will do in the murky future that's tough.
We dont ever learn enough about them because we are so quick to throw em on a slab and stick a needle in their arm. I am all for the death penalty. But in cases like this, I dont care if the guy did know right from wrong, we need to study him not kill him. Kinda hard to study a guy when he is on death row.
Bullshit. We have libraries about psychosis. We have board members who are firearm owners and clearly admit to hallucinating, and exhibiting the symptoms of delusions and a possibly paranoid psychosis, but no one has reported that to the proper authorities.

To quote the friends and family of everyone who has ever known a psychotic killer, "He was the quiet type. Never would have picked him. He never would have hurt a fly..."
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Blitzen2k5 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:40 pm

Doc Torr wrote: Bullshit. We have libraries about psychosis. We have board members who are firearm owners and clearly admit to hallucinating, and exhibiting the symptoms of delusions and a possibly paranoid psychosis, but no one has reported that to the proper authorities.

To quote the friends and family of everyone who has ever known a psychotic killer, "He was the quiet type. Never would have picked him. He never would have hurt a fly..."
We do indeed have oodles of information about psychosis and yet we are always learning more. I wonder why that is? Oh yah because we still dont know everything. Go read anything about psychosis and the first sentences under causes is a lot of "may be caused by" or "appears to be".... That is because we still dont know enough. Its also the same for ASPD.

I would love to see this guy executed. But if keeping him locked up and studying him could gain some information that would save even one life in the future. I think it would be worth it. Maybe you dont think so. But I do.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:11 pm

Blitzen2k5 wrote:
Doc Torr wrote: Bullshit. We have libraries about psychosis. We have board members who are firearm owners and clearly admit to hallucinating, and exhibiting the symptoms of delusions and a possibly paranoid psychosis, but no one has reported that to the proper authorities.

To quote the friends and family of everyone who has ever known a psychotic killer, "He was the quiet type. Never would have picked him. He never would have hurt a fly..."
We do indeed have oodles of information about psychosis and yet we are always learning more. I wonder why that is? Oh yah because we still dont know everything. Go read anything about psychosis and the first sentences under causes is a lot of "may be caused by" or "appears to be".... That is because we still dont know enough. Its also the same for ASPD.

I would love to see this guy executed. But if keeping him locked up and studying him could gain some information that would save even one life in the future. I think it would be worth it. Maybe you dont think so. But I do.
I don't really care what happens to this guy. I'm just saying that we're not going to unlock some key "trigger" that will be obvious and allow the proper authorities to intervene without someone speaking up.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by MacAttack » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:13 am

It now seems that the university psychiatrist(the one he was seeing) told the university board that she thought he was dangerous. But it wasn't during an official meeting. And that since he had just resigned, the board thought they didn't need to do anything anymore.

Odd, but if someone I knew just quit their hearts lifelong dream I might look into how they were doing. You know, as a friend.



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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Blitzen2k5 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:50 am

Doc Torr wrote: I don't really care what happens to this guy. I'm just saying that we're not going to unlock some key "trigger" that will be obvious and allow the proper authorities to intervene without someone speaking up.
Thanks to what we learned from killers like Ed Gein, that we didnt hang, we have caught a few serial killers. Saving lifes. We dont know what we might learn from the massacre types. But hell we never try. Either they kill themselves, cops kill them, or we stand them in front of a wall.

a lot of these guys have gone to psychiatrists before their massacres. Even the Century 16 shooter. So the more we learn the more flags we uncover. The doctors could then have more information to clearly define this behavior early and hence be able to treat it before they are buying 6000 rounds of ammo off the internet. Or alert who needs to be alerted. Some law changes would have to happen. But its a possibility.

I cant say we would definitely find anything. We might not find anything that could help us. But we could find something. I am not going think we wont. There is always possibilities. We never would have made it to moon if we were all full of "can not" and "Not going to happen".
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by squinty » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:17 pm

I don't believe in the death penalty period, and I agree that it would be more useful to keep this guy locked up and find out what makes him tick.
As for learning "flags" though - I do fear that in reaction to this shooting, especially if the school is found liable, there will be a lot of false positives and unnecessary involuntary hospitalizations and etc. The "signs" are always clear in hindsight, but how many people exhibit such signs without ever hurting anybody? For example, I read an article the other day noting that Holmes was conspicuous for his lack of presence on social media sites. That's unusual for people his age and demographic, and the article cited it as a warning sign of his increasing social isolation. Fair enough, but not terribly useful - so, now, are we going to start fearing people who don't like to share on facebook or livejournal? I have a friend who posted on a facebook reply that he had a migraine and was going to "take a vicodin to make the pain go away." That was misinterpreted as a suicide threat, and someone privy to his facebook page called 911 and he ended up getting held involuntarily for a day and a half before his physician agreed to let him go (they could have held him for up to three days.)

Even buying "6,000 rounds" of ammunition isn't all that suspicious - I've probably bought that much 22 LR before, or close to it. If you shoot, you buy bulk ammo.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Tater Raider » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:23 pm

I think death penalty, outside of being law of the land or a footnote in a news story that it is being sought, is a political discussion best left for some other website IMO... sorry.

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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Tusken Raider » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:44 pm

For us no guns allowed people in various states like Maryland?

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I used to use one million candle power flashlights as non lethal weapons when I worked security. It was always the first type of force I used if needed.

Now the laser, retinal damage would be permanant. But, the shooter would be incapacitated, hence the ability to stomp his head into the concrete. It is an option for a no win scenario. Not perfect, but it is an option.

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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by BullOnParade » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:35 pm

I went to see the new Batman film last night, and I'll admit, I was on edge. This was the first movie I had seen in a theater since the Aurora shooting.

The two emergency exits located at the front left and right side of the screen were propped open, with lights on inside. Twice during the preview my eye caught movement in the light, both times it was someone already in the theater walking passed (silhouetted against the light coming through) the door to the regular exit. It didn't completely take me away from the movie, and I have no idea if it was connected to the Aurora incident, but I was definitely more on guard than I've ever been in a theater before.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Zimmy » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:43 pm

For the scenario in the movie theater:

I feel I would have to get my family down and crawling low and away from the shooter while I moved to engage with my .45. If at all possible I would try to move with a smartness so my family wasn't in the line of fire between me and the shooter ASAP.

I don't think I could sit hiding with a pistol for my family to become specific targets while innocents were being gunned down in the same room.

I dunno, I've wasn't there. I'm not a modern day gunslinger or movie type hero but I do know from experience that I react well and aggressively when the SHTF around me.

Sometimes it's not how well you do, but that you DO SOMETHING when things need to be done.

Same with unarmed action. Any asshat shooting into my group for fun is gonna have to go through me to get to my grandbaby. If I have to draw fire charging the ambush with only a popcorn bucket to throw.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Stercutus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:27 pm

It is too bad that no one would ever be able to make such a long shot at that range with a hand gun under difficult circumstances, I mean that could never happen in real life where somebody was able to shoot 75-100 yards accurately with a hand gun while in a gun fight right? I mean if someone goes on a shooting spree you could do more harm than good by responding right?... Of course right.... except...


http://www.brownwoodnews.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brown County Sheriff’s Department and Early Police Department held a joint press conference Monday to formally discuss Sunday’s Peach House RV Park shooting which left three people and two dogs dead.

According to Sheriff Bobby Grubbs, the gunman was shot by an armed citizen and responding Early Police Sgt. Steven Means who was being fired upon by the gunman Charles Conner of Early. Grubbs stated that the gunman and the victims had a verbal confrontation about the dogs, and that Conner shot the male victim, then the dogs, and turned the gun on the male victim’s common law wife with a .9mm handgun.

Other residents of the RV park were in their homes as the incident occurred, stated Grubbs. Two adult male residents were reported to have heard the gunshots and saw the victims’ bodies, one of the male residents was the initial reporting party.

Conner was reported to have gone into his RV which was approximately 75-100 yards away and retrieved a 30-30 rifle which he used to shoot at the responding officer and another resident, according to Grubbs. He was also armed with two pistols during this time, said Grubbs.

Another armed resident heard the shots and retrieved his .357 Magnum handgun, and was able to shoot Conner in the leg, and was then fired upon by Conner as Officer Means pulled into the park, according to law enforcement officials. Means saw that Conner was armed and was fired upon as he got out of his vehicle, Grubbs said. Means was able to take cover behind his vehicle and returned fire with his assault rifle which ultimately ended the situation according to Grubbs. As Means and the armed resident returned fire, Conner collapsed dead.
The reported range for the .357? 165 yards.
Sheriff Grubbs commended the assisting resident for his actions. Law enforcement has determined that the resident acted valiantly and perhaps saved the lives of Sgt. Means and responding deputies, Grubbs said.

“His actions may have also saved the lives of other citizens who could have innocently walked into the situation. Under fire, the resident shooter returned fire at precisely the right moment. One of the rounds struck Conner in the thigh and staggered Conner as he turned fire on Sgt. Means,” said Grubbs. “This staggered Conner from having an effective aim as Conner fired upon Sgt. Means. This also enabled Sgt. Means to accurately return fire on Conner.”
So the police did NOT shoot down people responding to the shooter and assisting with fire power.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Tusken Raider » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:12 pm

Generally if you are helping an officer and are next to him/her, you are not considered a threat. Police have the ability to figure out who is who pretty fast. I know from my own experiences. The nut jobs are usually the ones standing in the open spraying lead while responders are seeking cover and not spraying lead.

Each situation s dynamic and fluid. It also depends on the responding officer's experience, and your communication with said officer.

I can tell you that in either circumstance I would have engaged. Might not have won in the theater, but I would respond hands down to an officer in distress and with a lot of firepower especially while near my home. When I travel I always have a handgun and rifle or shotgun.

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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by squinty » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:02 pm

I know I can't make a 165 yard shot with a .357. But I've made plenty of 25 yard shots with a .357. And sometimes mass shooters get a lot closer to their victims than that.

If armed, I may or may not choose to engage. It would depend on what other survival strategies seemed available, whether or not a shot that was within my skill envelope presented itself, and whether or not I could do so without endangering others. That said, I can well imagine a situation, even in the chaotic theater shooting, where an armed defender would have had a viable shot. I can also easily imagine that scenario being one where other survival strategies - "run", "hide", "avoid", "reason with" or "comply with" the shooter - weren't effective or available, leaving only "fight" as an option. "Fight" is not at the very top of my survival algorithm, but it's in there, and I'd rather fight with an effective tool than a less effective one, or my bare hands. That said, if it comes down to fight, I'd do my best with whatever I had.

I do not consider myself a hero or the true defender of everyone in the theater. I'll take care of my loved ones and dependents first, and myself second, and everybody else after that. If I can more likely save a child or loved one of mine by ushering them quietly out a lobby exit while the shooter tortures some guy three rows down, I'll choose to do that over shooting back at him. If I have to distract him and draw fire in order to let them make a crawl to the exit I'll do that. If I can escape along with them - I'll do that, then I'll call 911 from the car as I drive everybody I'm responsible for away from the theater. If I can't get away, I'll shoot the sonofabitch, which may save some other people as a happy side effect of my self-defense.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Vicarious_Lee » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:43 pm

Zimmy wrote:For the scenario in the movie theater:

I feel I would have to get my family down and crawling low and away from the shooter while I moved to engage with my .45. If at all possible I would try to move with a smartness so my family wasn't in the line of fire between me and the shooter ASAP.

I don't think I could sit hiding with a pistol for my family to become specific targets while innocents were being gunned down in the same room.

I dunno, I've wasn't there. I'm not a modern day gunslinger or movie type hero but I do know from experience that I react well and aggressively when the SHTF around me.

Sometimes it's not how well you do, but that you DO SOMETHING when things need to be done.

Same with unarmed action. Any asshat shooting into my group for fun is gonna have to go through me to get to my grandbaby. If I have to draw fire charging the ambush with only a popcorn bucket to throw.
That is a good thing to do. That is a good thing to aspire to do. But most importantly to me, that is a good thing that one must get real serious about training to do before that kind of event happens. I'd like to think I'd do the same. Hell, who wouldn't? Matter-of-fact, we can (unfortunately, and tragically) blend two recent mass-shootings together and recognize that the head of that Sikh temple the other day did EXACTLY that, and with predictably fatal effects, because he attacked a gunman with a dull ceremonial knife, but how much time did he buy other people? The answer is: Some, definitely "enough" for at least someone, maybe multiple people, to get out/hide/not get shot.

I'd like to shake the hand of all his relatives and everyone that knew him for his bravery and sacrifice. I won't even delude myself to say with any certainty I'd have the stones to do what he did.
squinty wrote:If armed, I may or may not choose to engage. It would depend on what other survival strategies seemed available, whether or not a shot that was within my skill envelope presented itself, and whether or not I could do so without endangering others. That said, I can well imagine a situation, even in the chaotic theater shooting, where an armed defender would have had a viable shot. I can also easily imagine that scenario being one where other survival strategies - "run", "hide", "avoid", "reason with" or "comply with" the shooter - weren't effective or available, leaving only "fight" as an option. "Fight" is not at the very top of my survival algorithm, but it's in there, and I'd rather fight with an effective tool than a less effective one, or my bare hands. That said, if it comes down to fight, I'd do my best with whatever I had.

I do not consider myself a hero or the true defender of everyone in the theater. I'll take care of my loved ones and dependents first, and myself second, and everybody else after that. If I can more likely save a child or loved one of mine by ushering them quietly out a lobby exit while the shooter tortures some guy three rows down, I'll choose to do that over shooting back at him. If I have to distract him and draw fire in order to let them make a crawl to the exit I'll do that. If I can escape along with them - I'll do that, then I'll call 911 from the car as I drive everybody I'm responsible for away from the theater. If I can't get away, I'll shoot the sonofabitch, which may save some other people as a happy side effect of my self-defense.
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A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Dabster » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:59 am

Looks like the authorities are onto people CCW'ing in theaters. Looks like they made this guy by his coyote EDC shoulder bag...


'Dark Knight' With A Glock
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- A northeast Ohio man brought a gun, ammunition and several knives to a showing of the latest Batman movie because he wanted to protect himself in case someone tried to replicate last month's deadly Colorado theater shooting, his attorney said Tuesday. Scott A. Smith, 37, had no intention of causing harm or inducing panic when he brought the weapons to a Saturday showing of "The Dark Knight Rises," said his attorney, Matthew Bruce. "With the recent shooting in Colorado, and the other incidents around the country in regards to threats, he felt that he needed protection," Bruce said. Bruce said he was referring to movie theater threats made after the deadly July 20 shooting in Aurora, Colo., where a 24-year-old man is accused of killing 12 people and wounding 58 at a midnight showing of the same movie. Bruce said his client "felt a sense of fear" about going to a theater, and chose the Batman movie by complete coincidence. "Any weapons he may have had on him were solely for protection," he said. Smith brought the weapons to a Regal Cinemas theater in Westlake, just outside of Cleveland, and seated himself in the middle of the theater's back row a half hour before the movie started, police said. A theater manager and an off-duty police officer working security stopped Smith after they became suspicious of a bag he was carrying, said Westlake Police Lt. Ray Arcuri. "Why pick that movie? Why that theater? Why sit in the back all the way like that? Why bring the gun?" he said. "There's several unanswered questions." Smith was arrested without incident and is currently jailed. Bruce said his client has been cooperative with officials. He was expected to be indicted on several weapons charges, but it's still too early to determine what those charges will be, said Nicole DiSanto of the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's office. Arcuri said one of the charges police may pursue for Smith is having weapons under disability. He said Smith was taking daily medication, but he would not elaborate on what that medication is. "Our contention is that he's drug dependent," he said. "And as a result, he should not be possessing a firearm." The theater manager first noticed Smith and a beige bag he carried over his shoulder, Arcuri said. When approached, Smith told the manager it had medical supplies inside. He then showed the manager a portion of the bag that didn't reveal the weapons. The off-duty Westlake police officer also noticed Smith and his bag. After checking with the manager, the officer followed Smith into the empty theater. The officer said Smith consented to a search inside the theater. Arcuri said the officer was more familiar with the bag, and he knew where to look when he found a loaded 9 mm Glock pistol with two extra loaded magazines, Arcuri said. The officer also found three knives in the bag and another knife on Smith, he said. There were also medical supplies, but Arcuri would not elaborate on what they were. When the officer asked Smith why he brought the weapons into the theater, Smith offered to put them in his car. Arcuri applauded the off-duty officer for trusting his instincts and pursuing Smith. "For an officer to observe that, take the initiative, approach him," he said. "Basically, avert a tragedy if he pulls a pistol out and starts shooting." Police searched Smith's North Ridgeville home Monday night and found more weapons, including at least six pistols and several shotguns and rifles, and thousands of rounds of ammunition. They also found more than one bulletproof vest. Little information is available about Smith. He is married with an infant daughter, Arcuri said. His wife told police her husband was a sleep technician for some sort of medical research, but Arcuri could not elaborate. Smith also served a brief time in the U.S. Army. He enlisted in January 1995 and reported to Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri for basic training that month. He was discharged a month later, according to the Army, which did not disclose why. Smith had no previous criminal record, Arcuri said. He said Smith did not have a concealed carry permit and should not have brought any weapon to the theater. "Our job is to protect the community," he said of police. "It's not his role. If there's a gun, it's because our officers brought it. It's not his job to bring the gun, it's ours." ___ Associated Press writer Lolita Baldor contributed to this report from Washington.


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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Gun_Nut_2k1 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:28 am

"Drug dependent" and "having weapons under disability" is awful vague. That has to be a OH law. Either that is suggesting people with a disability should not be afforded the right to defend themselves, or because he takes a medication he does not have the mental faculty to be able to use tools. I believe AZ law says to be DUI you have to be "Impaired to the slightest degree" while driving, but I am unaware of a law that says you can not carry while on medication. It is a stupid move to go into a CO theater carrying a concealed weapon without a CCW after the last shooting. He should have known people would have an obviously heightened awareness of such things. .
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Ad'lan » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:59 am

Blitzen2k5 wrote:
duodecima wrote:The "signs" are always "obvious" in retrospect - it's the predicting what human beings will do in the murky future that's tough.
We dont ever learn enough about them because we are so quick to throw em on a slab and stick a needle in their arm. I am all for the death penalty. But in cases like this, I dont care if the guy did know right from wrong, we need to study him not kill him. Kinda hard to study a guy when he is on death row.
Doc Torr wrote: Bullshit. We have libraries about psychosis. We have board members who are firearm owners and clearly admit to hallucinating, and exhibiting the symptoms of delusions and a possibly paranoid psychosis, but no one has reported that to the proper authorities.

To quote the friends and family of everyone who has ever known a psychotic killer, "He was the quiet type. Never would have picked him. He never would have hurt a fly..."
We do indeed have oodles of information about psychosis and yet we are always learning more. I wonder why that is? Oh yah because we still dont know everything. Go read anything about psychosis and the first sentences under causes is a lot of "may be caused by" or "appears to be".... That is because we still dont know enough. Its also the same for ASPD.

I would love to see this guy executed. But if keeping him locked up and studying him could gain some information that would save even one life in the future. I think it would be worth it. Maybe you dont think so. But I do.

I realise the discussion has ended and thanks for keeping it civil and close on topic, but before anyone else decides to chip in; ZS isn't the place for a discussion about the Death Penalty, if you really must comment about it, please take it to PM's.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by duodecima » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:35 am

Gun_Nut_2k1 wrote:"Drug dependent" and "having weapons under disability" is awful vague. That has to be a OH law. Either that is suggesting people with a disability should not be afforded the right to defend themselves, or because he takes a medication he does not have the mental faculty to be able to use tools. I believe AZ law says to be DUI you have to be "Impaired to the slightest degree" while driving, but I am unaware of a law that says you can not carry while on medication. It is a stupid move to go into a CO theater carrying a concealed weapon without a CCW after the last shooting. He should have known people would have an obviously heightened awareness of such things. .
It's an Ohio thing. Thus illustrating the necessity of being aware of laws in your area. (Also of not CC'ing without a CCW. Image )

2923.13 Having weapons while under disability.
(A) Unless relieved from disability as provided in section 2923.14 of the Revised Code, no person shall knowingly acquire, have, carry, or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance, if any of the following apply: [snip]
(4) The person is drug dependent, in danger of drug dependence, or a chronic alcoholic.
Whatever our opinions about that might be, (which would be political discussion...) it is the law of the land in Ohio.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:46 am

duodecima wrote:
(4) The person is drug dependent, in danger of drug dependence, or a chronic alcoholic.
Whatever our opinions about that might be, (which would be political discussion...) it is the law of the land in Ohio.
And wide open to interpretation of the District Attorney.
Last edited by Tater Raider on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by duodecima » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:12 pm

Tater Raider wrote:
duodecima wrote:
(4) The person is drug dependent, in danger of drug dependence, or a chronic alcoholic.
Whatever our opinions about that might be, (which would be political discussion...) it is the law of the land in Ohio.
And wide open to interpretation of the District Attorney.
Well, not entirely.
3719.011 Controlled substances definitions for use in Revised Code.
As used in the Revised Code: (snip)
(B) “Drug dependent person” means any person who, by reason of the use of any drug of abuse, is physically, psychologically, or physically and psychologically dependent upon the use of such drug, to the detriment of the person’s health or welfare.
So if it's just that he's on a regular regimen of prescription controlled substances (drugs of abuse is also defined, elsewhere in Ohio's code...) from his regular doctor, his lawyer's going to have a nice case to make. This clause to me, doesn't seem to apply at all to somebody taking mental health meds (or blood pressure meds, or whatever) unless they also happen to be controlled substances AND if they're taking them in a manner that's causing a problem (which, if you're seeing one doc for all your scripts, and your doc is monitoring stuff, would seem to be hard to argue...) (disclaimer - ianal.)

It may kinda suck to need a lawyer for this, but if he hadn't CC'd without license, it wouldn't be any kind of issue at all.
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Gun_Nut_2k1 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:19 pm

Thank you very much Duo! I am glad I live in the Zona!


Not to offend but it took my like 30 Seconds to figure out "ianal". Normally these things are capitalized. :crazy:
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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:35 pm

duodecima wrote:
Tater Raider wrote:
duodecima wrote:t is the law of the land in Ohio.

And wide open to interpretation of the District Attorney.

Well, not entirely.
3719.011 Controlled substances definitions for use in Revised Code.
As used in the Revised Code: (snip)
(B) “Drug dependent person” means any person who, by reason of the use of any drug of abuse, is physically, psychologically, or physically and psychologically dependent upon the use of such drug, to the detriment of the person’s health or welfare.

So if it's just that he's on a regular regimen of prescription controlled substances (drugs of abuse is also defined, elsewhere in Ohio's code...) from his regular doctor, his lawyer's going to have a nice case to make. This clause to me, doesn't seem to apply at all to somebody taking mental health meds (or blood pressure meds, or whatever) unless they also happen to be controlled substances AND if they're taking them in a manner that's causing a problem (which, if you're seeing one doc for all your scripts, and your doc is monitoring stuff, would seem to be hard to argue...) (disclaimer - ianal.)

It may kinda suck to need a lawyer for this, but if he hadn't CC'd without license, it wouldn't be any kind of issue at all.

Thanks for the clarification. I hate ambiguous wording. I also agree that if you are going to conceal carry you need a license (except in AZ or VT).

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Re: A Cape Scenario 1: The Movie Theater and other

Post by Towanda » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:00 pm

MacAttack wrote:It now seems the person he sent his notebook outlining his intended killings was also his on campus psychiatrist.
Whom he had been seeing professionally for a few months at least.


And as a PHD student he was in part an employee of the university, sort of. He was expected to help his professors in their work and at the same he was expected to do his own research which he was being paid to do.
Though he would normally be left alone to do his own research.


I am wondering why several PHD's and at least one psychiatrist didn't notice he was heading around the twist and got him more or better help, or at least alert the administration of their suspicions.
One gun clinging, undereducated(at least not to their standards), normal guy who owned a gun range noticed and was concerned. And seemed on the verge of calling the authorities on him.
A lot depends on the reporting laws in your state. There's another cabbie here who keeps saying disturbing things to me about wanting to get his CPL and then put holes in the heads of local homeless people that he doesn't like. Unless he tells me, "At 3:00 AM on Sunday the 17th I'm going to drag Mr X into the alley on That Street and shoot him," or something very similar, I have absolutely no legal basis to report him to anybody. If I tried, there's nothing anybody I might report him to can do absent a specific threat.
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